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WindyHair
Guest
AGAIN, things that people CHOOOOOOSE to do vs. things that
are done to them unwillingly (rape, etc) are two different things.
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are done to them unwillingly (rape, etc) are two different things.
N
nicolep
Guest
The children being aborted are not the woman’s own body. They are people.
N
nicolep
Guest
When does the child get a CHOOOOOICE?
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Again, your distinction begs the question. In order for that to be logically true, you have to already assume that the fetus is not a person. If the fetus is a human person, they certainly have not chosen to be murdered (and thus the analogy would hold true). So in order for you to prove the analogy is not apt, you have to first prove that the fetus is not a human person.
In every abortion there is a fetus that is killed. A person can do logical gymnastics all they want, but the only way to justify abortion is to assume that the fetus is not a human person.
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WindyHair
Guest
how would u know if it’s not scientifically documented.
but let’s just say you’re right, for the sake of argument.
even if making it legal gives you a slightly higher number
of abortions, your ROI (return on investment) will eventually
bear fruit by giving you the data you need to understand
who is having abortions and why. once armed with this info,
you can have a better strategy of fighting abortion.
there will always be abortions, but with good information,
we can manage it better.
Y
YADA
Guest
Excuse me for jumping in …
the rapist chooses to rape, his victim does not choose to be raped …
The pregnant person chooses the abortion [while this is technically true … reality is far more complex; in that many women are coerced - by boyfriends, family, society etc into seeking abortion] but the child never chooses to be aborted …
So the comparision fits … it only does not if you deny the human dignity of the child in the womb :tsktsk:
M
mercygate
Guest
What do you mean that someone who has an abortion is doing this “to their own body”? The person who ALWAYS dies in an abortion is not the person electing to have the abortion. The person who ALWAYS dies is the baby.
Actually, when you think about it, the fact that a woman occasionally dies during an abortion (legal or not) is really not an injustice, is it? It’s a catastrophe, of course. But it is not a greater catastrophe than the death of the child.
J
jmcrae
Guest
The abortion harms (kills) the innocent child. It should be illegal, because it should be illegal to harm innocent little children.
If you murder your own baby by means of an abortion, yes, you should go to jail. So should the doctor who helped you, and the person who drove you to the clinic, for “aiding and abetting in the murder of a child in the womb.”
I don’t know why something that seems so completely self-evident to me is such a mystery to other people.
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WindyHair
Guest
ok folks, technically, a fetus doesn’t “choose” anything.
it’s a natural course for a fetus to be born, but the fetus is
not in there saying, “birth me, birth me,” nor is it saying,
“abort me, abort me”.
did i ask my mom and dad, “hey can you guys like, give birth
to me??” before i was born? No.
some kids wish they hadn’t been born.
and honestly, sometimes i wonder if
it would’ve been better if some children
were never born, because of the environment
they are born in to, whether it be war, famine, etc.
it’s a natural course for a fetus to be born, but the fetus is
not in there saying, “birth me, birth me,” nor is it saying,
“abort me, abort me”.
did i ask my mom and dad, “hey can you guys like, give birth
to me??” before i was born? No.
some kids wish they hadn’t been born.
and honestly, sometimes i wonder if
it would’ve been better if some children
were never born, because of the environment
they are born in to, whether it be war, famine, etc.
W
WindyHair
Guest
self evident as in like Abraham?The abortion harms (kills) the innocent child. It should be illegal, because it should be illegal to harm innocent little children.
If you murder your own baby by means of an abortion, yes, you should go to jail. So should the doctor who helped you, and the person who drove you to the clinic, for “aiding and abetting in the murder of a child in the womb.”
I don’t know why something that seems so completely self-evident to me is such a mystery to other people.
i don’t see anyone fighting for people who pull the
plug off of coma patients. are they not human also?
they’re more human than underdeveloped fetus’s in my opinion.
J
jmcrae
Guest
What does this mean? They choose to kick, and swim around, and stuff like that. They don’t know very much, but they do react and respond to their environment - they know when it’s light out and when it’s dark, they hear their mother’s heartbeat and her voice, and they do have a sense of playfulness.
Well, no. They assume their mother will take care of them. They don’t know anything about birth or abortion, but they do pull away when the abortionist puts his instruments into the womb to start carving them up, and they do react with pain when the abortion begins.
Not in words, but when it came time for you to start breathing air, you did everything possible to get yourself out of the womb so that you could do that; that’s how you were born!
This is not our decision to make. We belong to God; not to ourselves.
M
mercygate
Guest
People who have flatlined and are on ventilators are not “more” human than unborn babies. They have often consented to be spared “extraordinary” means of sustenance. The person being on a respirator is being supported mechanically in a way that impedes the inevitable death that cannot be delayed forever.
The abortion involves an act of violence to terminate a life that, unmolested, would proceed to live a full life.
B
bilop
Guest
The number of abortions went WAY up after Roe, it would go down if abortion were illegal.
Dr. Hilgers, the NFP developer, estimates 100,000 illegal abortions in the U.S. pre-Roe.
abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_27.asp
If the U.S. reverted to twice, or even five times that number, over half a million babies would be saved each yera.
The idea is not to “manage” abortion. It is to stop it, as much as possible.
God Bless
W
WindyHair
Guest
i take those numbers with a grain of salt.
girls could be dropping babies into toilets
and no one would be the wiser.
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WindyHair
Guest
potentially, one can’t say for sure.
B
bilop
Guest
Did you read the link?
No they couldn’t. It’s very hard to dispose of a full-term baby, and that wouldn’t be abortion, if would be infanticide.
Dr, Hilgers compared the pre-legalization abortion deaths with the known death rate for abortion to come up with his figures.
Do you deny that abortion would go down if it was illegal and punished?
God Bless
J
jmcrae
Guest
If human body parts were getting into the sewer system, the sewage workers would notice, and complain.
N
nicolep
Guest
There are studies about abortion…who does it and why. Having that information sure hasn’t changed the fact that roughly $1.5 million children are aborted every year. That is despite the fact that there are a fair number of people trying to stop abortion in my experience.
Also, every person naturally wants to survive. It’s an instinct and a child still in their mother’s womb wouldn’t be any different.
My dad also uses the “they are better off dead” argument also. It’s a tragedy that these children won’t be able to experience any of life. Do children or people who suffer not have any good in their life? Do they not have an opportunity to unite their sufferings to Christ and have a purpose in life? How many future scientists have been aborted? How many of them could have offered solutions to the suffering? How many would have been bishops, priests, cardinals? How many would have been religious sisters, nuns or priests? Sure, some of them would have also committed crimes, but no one has given them the opportunity to do anything.
No one is forcing women to have children they do not want. All I would like to see happen is that the choice is made before the act. You don’t want to get pregnant…don’t have intercourse! Fairly simple answer if you ask me.
What we have here is an overly sexualized country due in part to the fact that there are no real consequences to getting pregnant. It can always be solved. Heck, you don’t even have to tell your parents if you don’t want them to know.
Also, every person naturally wants to survive. It’s an instinct and a child still in their mother’s womb wouldn’t be any different.
My dad also uses the “they are better off dead” argument also. It’s a tragedy that these children won’t be able to experience any of life. Do children or people who suffer not have any good in their life? Do they not have an opportunity to unite their sufferings to Christ and have a purpose in life? How many future scientists have been aborted? How many of them could have offered solutions to the suffering? How many would have been bishops, priests, cardinals? How many would have been religious sisters, nuns or priests? Sure, some of them would have also committed crimes, but no one has given them the opportunity to do anything.
No one is forcing women to have children they do not want. All I would like to see happen is that the choice is made before the act. You don’t want to get pregnant…don’t have intercourse! Fairly simple answer if you ask me.
What we have here is an overly sexualized country due in part to the fact that there are no real consequences to getting pregnant. It can always be solved. Heck, you don’t even have to tell your parents if you don’t want them to know.
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WindyHair
Guest
in the united states, yes.
would they be even more inhumane
done only when the girl starts showing? yes.
will more girls just try to abort it themselves? yes
will less qualified people perform abortions? yes
will there be less information about abortions? yes
will it become a class issue (only the rich can afford)? yes
will we ever know if abortions are reducing or increasing? no
without information, will we know what’s working to stem
abortion? no
let’s just make it illegal and close our eyes.
pro-choice people are not pro-abortion,
they’re people who refuse to turn a blind eye.
people are very adaptable. just because we made
drugs illegal doesn’t mean it isn’t a multi-billion dollar
yearly industry.
B
bilop
Guest
You can’t make killing someone “more humane”.
Why would you care if only the rich got abortions? That would only be an argument if you thought getting an abortion was a good thing. If we can only prevent the poor from killing their children, great! We save them from grievous sin.
I don’t think I can debate with you anymore.
If you will not even admit that making abortion illegal will reduce the number, you are incorrigible on this issue.
Given yesterday’s Mass readings, before I sign off, I feel compelled to inform you that supporting abortion (or “choice”) is a grievous sin. I beg you to reconsider and repent.
God Bless
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