Which is the correct view on sufffering?

[Madaglan]

In the past few weeks I have become increasingly aware of two basic and different views on physical suffering. One of these views I have long held and have recognized to be Catholic and even shared by many of our Protestant brethren. However, the other view seems to mostly be shared by certain groups within Protestantism.

Here are the two views as I see them:

1. Physical suffering is something that every Christian must cope with. Suffering in itself is not directly willed by God, but He does allow it so that we might become stronger in our faith, purified of our desires, or in some other way become more spiritually perfected. Suffering is redemptive and brings us closer to Christ. Sometimes physical suffering is a corrective punishment for sin, with the intention being that the person learn not to commit a sin again. If we endure suffering through patience, our reward in the world to come will be great. God can heal physical suffering if we ask it of Him, but we must allow that God’s will be done and that we might nontheless have to endure suffering.
2. Physical suffering is not willed by God. Physical suffering is of the Devil. The Christian who has faith has power over Satan and can be healed of whatever ailment by rebuking the lies of Satan and asking Jesus in faith to heal you. There is a difference between suffering for the faith (suffering martyrdom, torture, accidents, etc.) and having personal sufferings. The former are ofetntimes necessary to fulfil one’s vocation as a Christian. However, the personal sufferings are not necessary and have been defeated at the Cross by Christ. “By His stripes you have been healed” applies to all ailments it seems. God wants us personally to be at peace and in joy rather than in pain and suffering. If you ask God for such healing and you do not receive it, it is because your doubt negates your faith. Eliminate the doubt, and you shall be healed.

Now, it seems that the latter one does have its merits. Didn’t Christ say that “whatever” you ask in my name will be done? And did not Christ heal those who asked in good faith to be healed? Perhaps some people can help me understand which position is closer to the truth. Thanks!

 

[Brain]

To me suffering is simialr to tempatations:

they can come from the world, the flesh (including the ego), or the devil.

So 1 in many cases but 2 sometimes.

 

[YinYangMom]

Madaglan:

Now, it seems that the latter one does have its merits. Didn’t Christ say that “whatever” you ask in my name will be done? And did not Christ heal those who asked in good faith to be healed? Perhaps some people can help me understand which position is closer to the truth. Thanks!

Cool question. Thanks for raising it.

Didn’t the “whatever you ask in my name” have the same condition his own prayer had, though - “If it be God’s will”??

I could have sworn every time Jesus speak of what he does and why He always says it’s because it’s His father’s will.

The agony of the garden…I mean, really, if anyone on this earth ever deserved not to endure suffering, let alone the intensity with which that suffering was coming, I’d think it would be Jesus, don’t you?

There were moments in that garden we can see He kinda wished now was not the time for this, He even asked the cup to be passed, but at the end of his internal struggle He prays that God’s will be done.

God’s will came with the soldiers.

So, too, we can pray cancer pass us by, or any other ailment or tragedy our minds can conjure, but in the end we, too, must end the prayer with ‘Thy will be done’, and then prepare to receive His response.

Sometimes the cup will be passed.
Sometimes it will not.
But all times, when we live according to His will, peace will be ours.

For the light shines in the darkness.
Death shall have no victory.

As for personal suffering being the devil’s work, we know Mary was immaculate and yet she endured the personal suffering of watching her beloved son brutally tortured and crucified. I should think that example alone would strike that reasoning down,m= but maybe it could fall under that provision of “for the faith”.

But for faith having power over Satan and therefore believing can eliminate personal suffering from our lives, that seems a tad presumptuous to me.

This reads to me that a person can conquer/avoid personal pain and suffering if he chooses to believe that Satan can’t touch him in that way because he believes in Christ. I could be getting that wrong…

but what seems to be missing from that line of thinking is that it is not our faith in God which has power over Satan. Only God has power over Satan. In the end it is God who chooses when to exercise that power, isn’t it?

Certainly we can believe with all our hearts, minds and bodies that God has that power, and we can believe with every fiber in our being that He will hear our prayers to have a particular cup pass. But we cannot believe God into doing our will instead of His own. Only He knows why we are called to suffer and to which degree.

He works His miracles through our suffering - miracles for others and miracles for us - just think of the many stories of people who survive tragedies to come out of it stronger, wiser, closer to God than if they had not experienced that life altering event.

When we pray to have certain cups pass us by we don’t have the big picture. God does. We have to trust in His greater plan for humanity and understand our own pain/joy plays a part in that plan.

 

[Nicene]

1. Physical suffering is not willed by God. Physical suffering is of the Devil. The Christian who has faith has power over Satan and can be healed of whatever ailment by rebuking the lies of Satan and asking Jesus in faith to heal you. There is a difference between suffering for the faith (suffering martyrdom, torture, accidents, etc.) and having personal sufferings. The former are ofetntimes necessary to fulfil one’s vocation as a Christian. However, the personal sufferings are not necessary and have been defeated at the Cross by Christ. “By His stripes you have been healed” applies to all ailments it seems. God wants us personally to be at peace and in joy rather than in pain and suffering. If you ask God for such healing and you do not receive it, it is because your doubt negates your faith. Eliminate the doubt, and you shall be healed.

The healing by His stripes isn’t a physical healing, it is spiritual. Christ defeated death on the cross, not physical ailments, (that actually cheapens His atonement). If you aren’t answered it isn’t because of your lack of faith but due to Gods desire for a different plan for you. God, when he does manifest healing, isn’t for our personal benefit (that’s presumptuous) but to manifest His grace. It also eliminates complete submission “Not my will but yours be done” That means even enduring the worst. The above statement says that when Christ prayed this:

“My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

that Christ had lost His faith. Do you believe that?

If the manifestation of Gods grace takes backseat to healing it does nothing to serve God. Christ said to pick up your cross and follow Him. Promises of health and wealth and an easy life, contrasted with that, would emanate from whom? The apostles certainly weren’t wealthy. When healings do occur they are to manifest Gods glory. The outer healing was, as the case of the criple, just a sign:

Mt 9: 2: And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” 3: And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” 4: But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? 5: For which is easier, to say, Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, Rise and walk’? 6: But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – he then said to the paralytic – “Rise, take up your bed and go home.” 7: And he rose and went home. 8: When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men. 9: As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax office; and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him.

Which was the greater healing? Then notice Matthew in the very next scene - just “Follow me” .

The health and wealth doctrine is false doctrine. It is the doctrine of personal gain, not Gods gain. It even negates Christ’s very prayer. True prayer relies on God/Christ no matter the outcome. To say you didn’t have faith is presumptuous, judgemental and a twisting of scripture. What did Paul teach about presuming on Gods mercy?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

If God chooses not to heal you, and by saying “Your will be done” in the same prayer, offer up that suffering to complete what Christ suffered on the cross on behalf of others. (Col 1:24)

Col 1:24: Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

All prayer is efficacious according to scripture (if done with a truly contrite heart)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Verzejd]

A great Catholic view of physical suffering was given by Fr. Peter LeJacq, M.M. on Fr. Benedict Groeshel’s Sunday night EWTN show a couple weeks ago. He worked in Tanzania as a doctor for several years as a Maryknoll Missioner. Not only was it a good show, he is a friend I got to know a couple years ago and learned much about our Faith from him.

Peace
Eric

 

[cecilia97]

Now, it seems that the latter one does have its merits. Didn’t Christ say that “whatever” you ask in my name will be done? And did not Christ heal those who asked in good faith to be healed? Perhaps some people can help me understand which position is closer to the truth. Thanks!

In the midst of severe suffering, Christ Himself asked His Father to remove the need for His Crucifixion to take place. No one on earth ever had greater faith than Jesus, yet the will of the Father was that Christ suffer.

God does grant what we ask, if it is in our best interest, in accordance with His perfect will, and it’s the right time.

The Puritans operated under your second premise. They used it to blame poverty and illness on the weak faith and sinfulness of the victim.

I would add that personal suffering can indeed be very useful. It has helped many realize their need for God. Emotional suffering helped me realize my need for Jesus as my savior. If everything was wine and roses all the time, some people would never move beyond their physical needs and personal happiness. So yes, suffering can have a lot of value.

 

[DebChris]

Throughout His ministry on earth, Jesus was always on the way to heal somebody, in the process of healing somebody, or coming from healing somebody. Even as He was arrested, Jesus healed the ear that Peter had severed with his sword.
Throughout Christian history, God has healed through many of His saints. I never pray “if you will” since such is a statement of disbelief that God would have His people be whole. It even led to a reprimand when the blind man added this caveat to the end of his prayer.
That being said, I have run into my share of “Job’s comforters,” those people who question any illness or injury not immediately healed as evidence of a lack of faith.When Fr. D’Oreo was asked why not everybody who came to him was healed, he replied “That’s God’s way of keeping me humble.”
The OT says, “the physician too prays to the Lord that his diagnosis may be correct and you may be healed.” Pain is a reality. Illness is a fact of life. These facts may be changed. It is difficult to praise God when a person is sick or in pain. Sickness and pain are not willed by God.
It has been stated that a person can learn from his/her illness. It is true that a person can develop empathy for others facing the same ordeal. A person learns patience while waiting for his/her arm to heal or how to accept a helping hand when laid low by sickness or injury. It may well be that God will allow the illness or injury to follow its natural course.
I do not pray “if God wills.” I will however pray “in accordance with God’s will.” or “as God wills.” I accept the healing God has in store regardless of whether that healing is instantaneous or occurs over time.