Which is the lesser sin/better path?

[ktmeyer]

Wife is Catholic. Husband is not. Husband says that if wife doesn’t use birth control he will get a vasectomy. The wife is still open to the idea of children in the future, but if she doesn’t use birth control (sin) he will have the vasectomy to permanently end the chances of conception.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Wife is Catholic. Husband is not. Husband says that if wife doesn’t use birth control he will get a vasectomy. The wife is still open to the idea of children in the future, but if she doesn’t use birth control (sin) he will have the vasectomy to permanently end the chances of conception.

If she has made her objections known and he chooses to have the vasectomy anyway, my understanding is that that is HIS sin, not hers. She can still have intercourse with him because he’s aware of her stance.

I strongly, strongly recommend that this couple explore together the reasons why he does not want more children and consider NFP as an option.

 

[ktmeyer]

Yes, technically that will be his sin, but then the possibility for future children is gone. Sigh.

And yes, we’ve used NFP. His name is Jack

And yes, it was human error, sort of. No mucus even at the cervix, 4 days before predicted ovulation. For some reason I was thinking 4 days was safe, but I guess it is MORE than 4 days to be safe. But the result is the same, he no longer trusts NFP. He already withdraws, even with birth control or with NFP. Which is a whole nother issue. But that is his sin, not mine, and not a permanent thing.

I’m left in the position of sinning, or of losing the chance to ever have more children.

 

[Loving_disciple]

Wife is Catholic. Husband is not. Husband says that if wife doesn’t use birth control he will get a vasectomy. The wife is still open to the idea of children in the future, but if she doesn’t use birth control (sin) he will have the vasectomy to permanently end the chances of conception.

She must not sin if he his because she has not bowed to his will then God will look kindly on her because she loves him more than her husband. Also she is not responsible for her husbands choices and sins. Try talking your husband down and also it would be better for you not to see even if there no children.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Sounds like husband isn’t likely to ever really want more children, if he’s willing to cut off all possibility for a child in the future, rather than accept any risk of having a child that may be a “surprise.” Have you discussed why he thinks having another child right now would be such a terrible thing, and whether he may be open to more in the future? (No need to post it here, especially if it’s personal; just something to think about.)

I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. What a difficult situation for you.

The right thing (which I suspect you already know) is to choose not to sin, even if it means giving up such an important desire as having any more children with your husband… but I know that is much easier said than done.

Will pray for you.

 

[Xantippe]

ktmeyer said:

“Yes, technically that will be his sin, but then the possibility for future children is gone. Sigh.”

A reversal is still theoretically possible, if there were a change of heart.

“And yes, we’ve used NFP. His name is Jack
And yes, it was human error, sort of. No mucus even at the cervix, 4 days before predicted ovulation. For some reason I was thinking 4 days was safe, but I guess it is MORE than 4 days to be safe. But the result is the same, he no longer trusts NFP.”

I’ve had one pregnancy due to relations 7 whole days before ovulation.

“He already withdraws, even with birth control or with NFP. Which is a whole nother issue. But that is his sin, not mine, and not a permanent thing.”

That’s got to be really terrible.

Marriage counseling?

“I’m left in the position of sinning, or of losing the chance to ever have more children.”

Not necessarily. There are still vasectomy failures and it looks like there’s a 55% chance of successful reversal if done within 10 years and 25% after 10 years. So, if he were to have a change of heart within a reasonable period of time, your chance of more children is actually excellent.

 

[Xantippe]

On the moral side, it’s worse for you to commit what you know to be a sin rather than for him to unknowingly commit a sin.

 

[tskrobacz]

I was sent to teach many people about love…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent with new ideas to cure disease…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to be a modern saint and live heroic virtues, a model for all to see…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to be born with severe disabilities, to teach compassion to many…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to lead you out of poverty by rendering hope within your hearts…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to help a homeless man find shelter on a cold and windy night…but they killed me in the womb

I sent you to save a child from drowning…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to show my love in art and music…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to hold your mother’s hand as she transitioned from life to death…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to break the cycle of addiction in your family and friends…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to fight for justice…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to teach many people about love…but they blocked my love from entering the world through you.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Wife is Catholic. Husband is not. Husband says that if wife doesn’t use birth control he will get a vasectomy. The wife is still open to the idea of children in the future, but if she doesn’t use birth control (sin) he will have the vasectomy to permanently end the chances of conception.

The wife should talk to a good confessor, and bring with her a copy of The Vademecum for Confessors with particular attention to paragraph 13. vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_12021997_vademecum_en.html

If the husband insisted on contraception against her wishes, under certain circumstances she would be more of a victim of sin (rather than the sinner) if he was to use a condom. It’s a bit tricky–she needs to be honest with herself and pray for his conversion of heart to conform to Catholic teachings. She should not be the one using contraception, but if he does it might help him to postpone having a vasectomy. That leaves open the possibility of both more children and his conforming to Church teachings in the future. In my opinion, that would be the better path.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Wife is Catholic. Husband is not. Husband says that if wife doesn’t use birth control he will get a vasectomy. The wife is still open to the idea of children in the future, but if she doesn’t use birth control (sin) he will have the vasectomy to permanently end the chances of conception.

It would be wrong for the wife to use birth control. If the husband, based on what the wife decides, chooses to do wrong himself, that is on him. The wife can of course try to convince the husband not to do evil, but not by doing evil herself. We cannot do evil that good may come of it.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Selfishness is already harming the marriage. Neither is seeking a way to get the other to heaven, but instead they both are turning to their wants and desires over the marriage and over Gods plan. Since the consequence of sin is death, they will experience a consequence. It could be the end (end = death) of their compromising, the end of great conjugal loving ( BCP’s decrease woman’s libedo, verse toniest may too), it may be the end of growing a family, the end of maintaining the family, the end of turning to God (if the catholic is disobedient to God), the beggining of the end of the marriage, the end of …

It’s a shame when a married couple turns from team to competitors.

 

[maryjk]

I was sent to teach many people about love…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent with new ideas to cure disease…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to be a modern saint and live heroic virtues, a model for all to see…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to be born with severe disabilities, to teach compassion to many…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to lead you out of poverty by rendering hope within your hearts…but they killed me in the womb
I was sent to help a homeless man find shelter on a cold and windy night…but they killed me in the womb

I sent you to save a child from drowning…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to show my love in art and music…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to hold your mother’s hand as she transitioned from life to death…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to break the cycle of addiction in your family and friends…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to fight for justice…but they blocked your conception
I sent you to teach many people about love…but they blocked my love from entering the world through you.

You’ve posted this on four different threads.

How, exactly, is this suppose to help the OP?

 

[pacomius]

You are asking a question of “which is the lesser sin.” This question could be asked in a classroom of college students which could easily debate this. It could make for interesting conversation and would bring up many points about official Catholic Church teaching.

But the heart of the matter here really is not that is it? What is going on here is marriage breakdown. A husband is threatening to mutilate his body against his wife’s wishes. This is a serious matter and will damage the relationship. On the other hand if the wife begins to take chemicals to alter her body this will also damage the relationship. We can debate about sin here, but the relationship is in trouble. Please consider taking this to prayer, seeing a counselor, a priest, a minister or going on a marriage retreat to repair what you can. Love is what is needed here. Love, love and more love. Please be assured of my prayers.

whatever is pushing the man to be willing to have a vasectomy is worth listening to. the lesser evil is that the couple seeks medical counsel. artificial birth control is anti Catholic and vasectomy is also anti Catholic. artificial birth control will affect the wife’s love for her husband. the husband will definitely hold the wife responsible for a vasectomy. only a medical doctor can convince him against artificial birth control. the only puzzle now is the reason for his vehemently rejecting future pregnancies.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Selfishness is already harming the marriage. Neither is seeking a way to get the other to heaven, but instead they both are turning to their wants and desires over the marriage and over Gods plan. Since the consequence of sin is death, they will experience a consequence. It could be the end (end = death) of their compromising, the end of great conjugal loving ( BCP’s decrease woman’s libedo, verse toniest may too), it may be the end of growing a family, the end of maintaining the family, the end of turning to God (if the catholic is disobedient to God), the beggining of the end of the marriage, the end of …

It’s a shame when a married couple turns from team to competitors.

I disagree. The wife is not being selfish here (it is good to want to be open to children in marriage). Marriage is ordered towards procreation, and she is trying to help her husband avoid impeding procreation forever. This is good, and matches God’s plan for marriage.

 

[ktmeyer]

Yes, I am trying to preserve the ability to procreate in our marriage. There is no way we could afford to ever have a vasectomy reversed, so once that is done, it is done.

His reasons are that he worries about being able to provide for all the children. He grew up very poor, and it was very hard on him. He ended up dropping out of school so he could work full time and support his family. He’d also like to show the children places around the country/world…travel is the one thing he really loves, and we can’t really afford to travel with 3 kids, more would mean we never could, in his mind.

 

[pacomius]

Yes, I am trying to preserve the ability to procreate in our marriage. There is no way we could afford to ever have a vasectomy reversed, so once that is done, it is done.

His reasons are that he worries about being able to provide for all the children. He grew up very poor, and it was very hard on him. He ended up dropping out of school so he could work full time and support his family. He’d also like to show the children places around the country/world…travel is the one thing he really loves, and we can’t really afford to travel with 3 kids, more would mean we never could, in his mind.

his reasons are quite honourable. I read a book by Sr Mcsweeny (not sure of her name’s spelling because I think she is Irish) and I later attended one of her conferences. her book is titled Faith and Life. she says Billing’s Method is the safest family planning with 97% efficacy which makes it better than every other (including artificial) family planning.
my advice is that you ask your doctor about Billing’s Method and get his opinion.

 

[Xantippe]

ktmeyer said:

“His reasons are that he worries about being able to provide for all the children. He grew up very poor, and it was very hard on him. He ended up dropping out of school so he could work full time and support his family. He’d also like to show the children places around the country/world…travel is the one thing he really loves, and we can’t really afford to travel with 3 kids, more would mean we never could, in his mind.”

One of my great-aunties was similar–she’d grown up the oldest of 8, very conscientiously helped with the little kids, but once she left home, she was DONE with large families. She had one (1.0000) child and then threw a huge hissy fit when her only son, as a double income middle aged guy, had a second child.

Can you do marriage counseling and/or can he do therapy? His concerns about another child seem over the top (the contraception plus withdrawal) and a wee bit neurotic. (That’s not the language I’d use on him, of course.) He needs to work on the fact that his childhood circumstances are not at all those of your family–none of your kids is going to need to quit school to work full time, even if you had another three. This sort of situation is exactly what therapy is for–untangling the past from the present and enabling people to judge present situations for what they are, rather than treating them as an extension of the past.

 

[tskrobacz]

You’ve posted this on four different threads.

How, exactly, is this suppose to help the OP?

My question is what is your motive to review my personal posts and attack my intentions?

 

[ktmeyer]

His insistence on both withdrawal and another form of birth control seems a bit obsessive, but is rooted in the fact that the oldest child was a birth control baby, and the youngest was a NFP baby. And when we used condoms, once upon a time, those broke more than once. He doesn’t trust any method totally, other than permanent measures.

For health reasons I need to avoid conceiving right now, but in a few months that may change, and I think we will have to revisit the subject then.

 

[maryjk]

My question is what is your motive to review my personal posts and attack my intentions?

They are not personal posts. They are posted on a public forum.

And I didn’t attack your intentions. I questioned your intentions.

And my question remains, how does your post help the OP?