Which is worse or better?

[Andruschak]

Which is worse or better, depending on your perspective, a Catholic who has some misgivings/non-acceptance about some Church teachings, but wants to remain a Catholic, or one who has changed to another Christian denomination where that person can more readily accept their teachings, and feels this is more true to God’s word?

Sorry for the “run-on” sentence. Please, no “heresy” attacks, or requests for specifics on misgivings/non-acceptance of Church teachings.

Respectful replies from both Catholics and non-Catholics are welcome. Opinions from folks who have faced this dilemma themselves will be more than appreciated.

As an RCIA Candidate, I get the impression that I am required to ADHERE to the teachings of the Church concerning faith and morals?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Yes, but everybody claims the HS is leading them to the right place. You to the Catholic Church, somebody else to another church.

See the issue. You are right, the HS would not (I don’t think) lead people to different places, the question what is the right place?

The place to which one’s attempt to obey and respond to the Holy Spirit leads one, perhaps ?​

If some people had not been Protestants (or whatever), they might never have become Catholics. Had X not been ordained a priest, ex-Catholic Y might still be a Catholic. Had Z not prayed, A might never have been responsive to God’s grace so as to be fit for canonisation. Etc.

 

[Caesar]

Which is worse or better, depending on your perspective, a Catholic who has some misgivings/non-acceptance about some Church teachings, but wants to remain a Catholic, or one who has changed to another Christian denomination where that person can more readily accept their teachings, and feels this is more true to God’s word?

Sorry for the “run-on” sentence. Please, no “heresy” attacks, or requests for specifics on misgivings/non-acceptance of Church teachings.

Respectful replies from both Catholics and non-Catholics are welcome. Opinions from folks who have faced this dilemma themselves will be more than appreciated.

Neither is good. They are both probably on the same level.

 

[newbie1234]

Which is worse or better, depending on your perspective, a Catholic who has some misgivings/non-acceptance about some Church teachings, but wants to remain a Catholic, or one who has changed to another Christian denomination where that person can more readily accept their teachings, and feels this is more true to God’s word?

Sorry for the “run-on” sentence. Please, no “heresy” attacks, or requests for specifics on misgivings/non-acceptance of Church teachings.

Respectful replies from both Catholics and non-Catholics are welcome. Opinions from folks who have faced this dilemma themselves will be more than appreciated.

I was catholic for most of my life.
To me the faith was dead. I didn’t believe in many of the traditions. During mass my mind wandered. I never read the bible.
But when I became born again and started reading God’s word, my faith came alive. Now I’m on fire for the Lord! Praise God! I am immersed in the Word like never before. It was the best thing I ever did.
I can’t speak for anyone else though.
But I know most of my Christian friends are on fire also. And we all came from various religious backgrounds.

 

[Church_Militant]

I was catholic for most of my life.
To me the faith was dead.

Because you were dead.

I didn’t believe in many of the traditions.

Because you didn’t study to show yourself approved unto God.

During mass my mind wandered.

Oh gee…that’s a real indictment of Catholicism. Your mind… What was the church supposed to do? Come around and poke you with a stick?

I never read the bible.

Whose fault is that? Not the church’s because there are at least 4 readings from the Bible at every Mass that you could have read along with.

Not to mention the plenary indulgence that is still in force for Catholics who read their Bibles.

But when I became born again and started reading God’s word, my faith came alive. Now I’m on fire for the Lord! Praise God! I am immersed in the Word like never before. It was the best thing I ever did.
I can’t speak for anyone else though.
But I know most of my Christian friends are on fire also. And we all came from various religious backgrounds.

Yeah well. I’m “on fire” too. Read my testimony HERE!

I won’t sit here and recount all the unscriptural practices and beliefs that I encountered as a non-Catholic, but my Catholic faith is more Biblical, and vitally alive than anything that I ever had before. N-C churches have little to offer by comparison.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[newbie1234]

Because you were dead.Because you didn’t study to show yourself approved unto God.Oh gee…that’s a real indictment of Catholicism. Your mind… What was the church supposed to do? Come around and poke you with a stick? Whose fault is that? Not the church’s because there are at least 4 readings from the Bible at every Mass that you could have read along with.

Not to mention the plenary indulgence that is still in force for Catholics who read their Bibles.
Yeah well. I’m “on fire” too. Read my testimony HERE!

I won’t sit here and recount all the unscriptural practices and beliefs that I encountered as a non-Catholic, but my Catholic faith is more Biblical, and vitally alive than anything that I ever had before. N-C churches have little to offer by comparison.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I think the op was looking for testimony on what our faith looks like.
I don’t think the format was set up to refute each others testimony and prove each other wrong.
I understand you must be angry with me therefore you are trying to undermine my post.
Maybe I did fail at catholicism, it didn’t fail me.
But I know all the friends that I went to Catholic school with, are not practicing catholicism either.
And most of my family are not practicing.Sure, They call themselves catholic but they never step foot in a church.
Mr Militant, if you are on fire, God Bless you.
But don’t be a hater.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Live your life in accordance with the light God gives you, and trust to His mercy and forgiveness.

Hi,
Out of All the talk on this thread, yours is the one that truly counts.

AMEN SISTER!!!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I was catholic for most of my life.
To me the faith was dead. I didn’t believe in many of the traditions. During mass my mind wandered. I never read the bible.
But when I became born again and started reading God’s word, my faith came alive. Now I’m on fire for the Lord! Praise God! I am immersed in the Word like never before. It was the best thing I ever did.
I can’t speak for anyone else though.
But I know most of my Christian friends are on fire also. And we all came from various religious backgrounds.

AMEN!!! :clapping: ME TOO except I was raised Episcopalian.

 

[fix]

For all these reasons & others, one cannot apply general principles in a unvarying way - to say “X is under all circumstances a sin” can be true without implying that a person involved in it is for that reason guilty. Not everyone has reached the age of moral responsibility. So a child of four who steps on a Host because it’s been dropped, is not necessarily in the same moral state as an ex-Catholic atheist who goes to Mass in order to find a Host to desecrate.

True, while culpability varies it that does not change the absolute fact that objective truth exists and can be grasped by man. The OP says that as long as one is sincere that is enough to be right or even if one is wrong it does not matter as long as one is sincere.

I think Cardinal Ratzinger spoke to your point here:

…Being happy would mean not being burdened with having to believe or having to submit to the moral yoke of the faith of the Catholic church. The erroneous conscience, which makes life easier and marks a more human course, would then be a real grace, the normal way to salvation. Untruth, keeping truth at bay, would be better for man than truth. It would not be the truth that would set him free, but rather he would have to be freed from the truth. Man would be more at home in the dark than in the light. Faith would not be the good gift of the good God but instead an affliction. If this were the state of affairs, how could faith give rise to joy? Who would have the courage to pass faith on to others?..

…what unsettled me in the argument just recounted was first of all the caricature of faith I perceived in it. In a second course of reflection, it occurred to me further that the concept of conscience which it implied must also be wrong. The erroneous conscience, by sheltering the person from the exacting demands of truth, saves him …—thus went the argument. …

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/RATZCONS.HTM

If people who are Christians are convinced as before God that they must do X, then it is wrong for them not do X. What complicates things is that conscience can be divided against itself - it is easy to be indecisive because of this. AFAICS, all one can do is, act according to the best of one’s available clear knowledge. Our best done with God’s help (recognised or not) is at least our best at that time in those particular circumstances, even though it may be very far from the best that we might in principle be able to do if we were better than we are at that moment.

I think everyone agrees one must not act against a certain conscience. The point of contention is what we are obligated to do to be able to claim our certain conscience is propely formed and not cuplably misinformed.

 

[rr1213]

my

testimony HERE!

That is an inspiring testimony. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Church_Militant]

That is an inspiring testimony. Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks very much. Gloria in excelsis Deo.

 

[Church_Militant]

I think the op was looking for testimony on what our faith looks like.

Perhaps…but you made it an indictment of Catholicism. I cannot be sure what your intent was, but in view of the rest of your posts here it certainly came across that way.

I don’t think the format was set up to refute each others testimony and prove each other wrong.

Then why make your post counter-Catholic?

I understand you must be angry with me therefore you are trying to undermine my post.

Then you completely fail to understand me at all. Your assumption is dead wrong, as I am not angry with anyone.

I responded to your post because you implied that the condition you were in was the fault of the church when in fact, (as I pointed out) that is not the case at all. I knew this and my own testimony shows it. (I can’t tell if you bothered to read it or not.)

Maybe I did fail at catholicism, it didn’t fail me.

Indeed. This is my opinion as well. For the both of us.

But I know all the friends that I went to Catholic school with, are not practicing catholicism either.
And most of my family are not practicing.Sure, They call themselves catholic but they never step foot in a church.

And again…so this is how you justify your opinion? Fallacious logic. I have many n-C friends who are equally lukewarm or faithless, does that meant that their respective churches are at fault?

Mr Militant, if you are on fire, God Bless you.

Thanks, IMO it’s time for you to get your facts straight about the Catholic faith and ask the Holy Spirit if it’s not time for you to come home.

But don’t be a hater.

Never have been and never will be. Don’t be a :crying: baby.

 

[Godfollower]

I was once on a retreat at which a priest ran a session called something like “Even though we might not agree, please tell us why the Catholic Church teaches _________ so we’ll understand better.” (You can imagine the various subjects: women priests, married priests, contraception, etc., etc., etc.). He actually did a fairly good job of explaining the various things brought up, and everything he said was completely orthodox. But at the end he concluded by saying that, if we had problems with these teachings, we should consider finding another church.

I remember being appalled at his comment. Let’s say, hypothetically, that I disagreed with every single one of the topics he discussed that day and felt that the Church needed to come around to my way of thinking (because, hey, I’m always right … right? ). That doesn’t mean I should leave the Church: I would lose so much by leaving: the Real Presence, the Apostolic Succession, Sacred Tradition, and on and on and on.

If you have issues with the Church (and who doesn’t, especially after the sex abuse scandal?), that doesn’t mean it isn’t the Church Christ set up when He left Peter and the Apostles in charge 2,000 years ago. Stay. Pray for guidance. Study the Faith. Try to understand more about what the Church teaches (on whatever your issues are), and why you disagree. Learn more about the true issues of the Faith. But don’t leave. Even if you can’t accept the Church’s requirement that you give intellectual assent to teachings you can’t understand or accept, stay.

To put it in more concrete terms: a friend of mine who feels women should be allowed to become priests had this comment: Jesus put the Apostles in charge of His Church, and the pope and bishops are their successors. So, even if I disagree with them, what they say goes.

The Catholic Church is your home. Don’t leave it just because you’re uncomfortable with some of the menu.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Perhaps…but you made it an indictment of Catholicism. I cannot be sure what your intent was, but in view of the rest of your posts here it certainly came across that way.Then why make your post counter-Catholic?Then you completely fail to understand me at all. Your assumption is dead wrong, as I am not angry with anyone.

I responded to your post because you implied that the condition you were in was the fault of the church when in fact, (as I pointed out) that is not the case at all. I knew this and my own testimony shows it. (I can’t tell if you bothered to read it or not.)Indeed. This is my opinion as well. For the both of us.And again…so this is how you justify your opinion? Fallacious logic. I have many n-C friends who are equally lukewarm or faithless, does that meant that their respective churches are at fault?Thanks, IMO it’s time for you to get your facts straight about the Catholic faith and ask the Holy Spirit if it’s not time for you to come home.Never have been and never will be. Don’t be a :crying: baby.

Hi,

Im glad to hear that you are not a hater. However, your posts make you come across that way. It is probably the way you word things and the huge font makes it appear you are yelling. I sense a bit of sarcasm in your words. This is just a bit of constructive criticism coming from the other side of the Tiber.

 

[newbie1234]

I was once on a retreat at which a priest ran a session called something like “Even though we might not agree, please tell us why the Catholic Church teaches _________ so we’ll understand better.” (You can imagine the various subjects: women priests, married priests, contraception, etc., etc., etc.). He actually did a fairly good job of explaining the various things brought up, and everything he said was completely orthodox. But at the end he concluded by saying that, if we had problems with these teachings, we should consider finding another church.

I remember being appalled at his comment. Let’s say, hypothetically, that I disagreed with every single one of the topics he discussed that day and felt that the Church needed to come around to my way of thinking (because, hey, I’m always right … right? ). That doesn’t mean I should leave the Church: I would lose so much by leaving: the Real Presence, the Apostolic Succession, Sacred Tradition, and on and on and on.

If you have issues with the Church (and who doesn’t, especially after the sex abuse scandal?), that doesn’t mean it isn’t the Church Christ set up when He left Peter and the Apostles in charge 2,000 years ago. Stay. Pray for guidance. Study the Faith. Try to understand more about what the Church teaches (on whatever your issues are), and why you disagree. Learn more about the true issues of the Faith. But don’t leave. Even if you can’t accept the Church’s requirement that you give intellectual assent to teachings you can’t understand or accept, stay.

To put it in more concrete terms: a friend of mine who feels women should be allowed to become priests had this comment: Jesus put the Apostles in charge of His Church, and the pope and bishops are their successors. So, even if I disagree with them, what they say goes.

The Catholic Church is your home. Don’t leave it just because you’re uncomfortable with some of the menu.

Twenty years ago a catholic priest told me:“The catholic Church is like a club. It has a set of rules. If you want to be a member of the club, you have to follow the rules. if you don’t follow the rules, you are not in the club”
From that moment on, I did’t consider myself catholic.

 

[bankerdavid]

Ahh, but many Christian denominations feel they are God’s Church. Obviously, Catholics feel they have the fullness of Truth; other denominations feel they do and that us Catholics are mixed up.

Sometimes I think God is saying to himself “you all stop bickering among yourselves, none of you have it completely right, nor completely wrong. Each of you have a piece of the truth. Bottom line: If you accept me, Jesus, as the Messiah, that I died for your sins, was resurrected, and you follow the teachings I left you, you are going to make it, no matter what denomination you are”.

Are you serious??? Many protestant denominations feel that they’re God’s church, but which church stems from the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord? The one that came from the lips and actions of Jesus, directly, and has been handed down through Apostolic Succession through the ages-never changing in substance. IOW, the Catholic Church.

 

[Unitas]

Hi,

Im glad to hear that you are not a hater. However, your posts make you come across that way. It is probably the way you word things and the huge font makes it appear you are yelling. I sense a bit of sarcasm in your words. This is just a bit of constructive criticism coming from the other side of the Tiber.

I find a Catholic on fire for the faith with the guts to say so is a breath of fresh air.

I like the larger font, I sit kinda far from my monitor, his posts are easier to read for me.

Just my opinion though

 

[Joseph_Mary]

If one professes the Nicene Creed, and does not fall back into the Church, they are HYPOCRITES.

Either you believe the Nicene Creed, or you DO NOT.

If you do, then you MUST believe the Teachings of the Catholic Church. If you are opposed to the Teachings of the Catholic Church, then you oppose the formulations of the Nicene Creed.

Hell, even the BAPTISTS profess the Apostle’s Creed, which is a kind of “compromise” even the most anti-ecumenical Catholics will take.

If you are a member of a Church that does something such as denying that Our Lady Mary is the Mother of God, then you might as well be a Wiccan and worship a frog in a tree…

 

[water]

I find a Catholic on fire for the faith with the guts to say so is a breath of fresh air.

I like the larger font, I sit kinda far from my monitor, his posts are easier to read for me.

Just my opinion though

I do not think the font is too large.

 

[Church_Militant]

Twenty years ago a catholic priest told me:“The catholic Church is like a club. It has a set of rules. If you want to be a member of the club, you have to follow the rules. if you don’t follow the rules, you are not in the club”
From that moment on, I did’t consider myself catholic.

And this is your “reason” for bailing from the church? Please feel free to PM me with any better reasons than that, because if I believe that and functioned likewise, then I’d’ve bailed on Christianity a long time ago based on the comments that I’ve had from non-Catholics by themselves.

That just doesn’t make sense to me…