Tis_Bearself
Patron
It continues that way out into Delco and Chesco.
Which Knights of Columbus 4th Degree Color Guard Uniform Do You Prefer?
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Just between us, I greatly prefer the food at Getgo over Wawa, but that’s heresy in this area.
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phil19034
Guest
And Montgomery County too (that’s where I now live).
When I used to live in the Manayunk section of Philadelphia back in 2000 to 2005, there were 4 parishes within walking distance to my house.
One was an Italian parish, one Polish parish, one German parish and the territorial parish (which used to be primary Irish). The Polish parish and Territorial parish were across the square from one another (they are both on a park square).
The three personal parishes were all closed in 2012. The Polish and German parishes merged with the territorial parish, while the Italian parish merged with another parish (not too far from it, but a healthy walk from where I used to live)
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FaithfulKnight
Guest
The first 4th degree exemplification took place on February 22 1900 just about 10 years after death of the Venerable Fr McGivney (August 14, 1890)
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Augustinian
Guest
In Pittsburgh, it was much the same in many parts of town. A combination of the high density of the population and lack of transportation, as well as each ethnic group having its own church.
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TK421
Guest
I know KofC was founded in the 19th century in a thickly protestant country. Catholics were treated with severe mistrust, and it was thought by many that they were a threat to the nation because they were loyal to the Pope, who was viewed by protestant America similarly to a European monarch. “Patriotism” was part of the KofC to try show that they could be loyal members to American society. That they could fit and they didn’t need to be feared.
I don’t really identify with the idea of patriotism, and I think in general much of the world is moving in that direction. Although with aggressive alt right parties gaining strength in various countries I might be premature in saying that. It is something that started in the 16th century. Much of the early protestants were also nationalists and supported individual state churches. Beforehand, such as in the medieval ages, Europe identified more strongly with its faith tradition. The Crusades demonstrate that quite well: even after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, Europe could still engage in a multi-national coalition to fight a common enemy. It was the Church and Tradition that made that possible. Whether you were English or French or German, you were first and foremost a Catholic.
“Love of neighbor” extends to everybody in the world. It has been awhile since Catholics needed to prove that they weren’t a national threat. These days prejudice and double standards have shifted to Latin Americans and Muslims.
I don’t really identify with the idea of patriotism, and I think in general much of the world is moving in that direction. Although with aggressive alt right parties gaining strength in various countries I might be premature in saying that. It is something that started in the 16th century. Much of the early protestants were also nationalists and supported individual state churches. Beforehand, such as in the medieval ages, Europe identified more strongly with its faith tradition. The Crusades demonstrate that quite well: even after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, Europe could still engage in a multi-national coalition to fight a common enemy. It was the Church and Tradition that made that possible. Whether you were English or French or German, you were first and foremost a Catholic.
“Love of neighbor” extends to everybody in the world. It has been awhile since Catholics needed to prove that they weren’t a national threat. These days prejudice and double standards have shifted to Latin Americans and Muslims.
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C
commenter
Guest
“Loving your neighbor” has to begin with the people closest to us. My family, the people in my neighborhood, the people in my city…and yes, the people in my country. I agree patriotism is not the ultimate virtue, but nowadays, as you say, it tends to be forgotten.
Keep in mind Patriotism is the virtue of the 4th degree. It presupposes continuing attention to the virtues of the first, second, third: charity, unity and fraternity.
I would argue that patriotism has tended to focus a lot on the military, but you can honor the veteran and current soldier regardless of whether you agree with a particular president or war. Patriotism can also include things like religious liberty, which the Knights strongly support.
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TK421
Guest
@commenter
In your experience, how much of the active KofC are military veterans?
In your experience, how much of the active KofC are military veterans?
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Augustinian
Guest
Military veterans are a lot older of a population than the general public. Of course there are some young veterans, but there were a lot more people serving in the military before the draft was discontinued about 1972.
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OriginalGabrielof12
Guest
What do you mean? The new uniform looks European with a flavor of military British out of WWII.
I like the Nostalgia look of the former. My Bishop did like the swords exposed in Church. The cape covered it well during Mass with the Bishop.
I think the new one sends a negative (militant) message instead of a positive (honorable) one the former look gave. Besides a sword goes with a cape. The new one just as well as have an M-16 rifle to be kosher. Just an opinion
I like the Nostalgia look of the former. My Bishop did like the swords exposed in Church. The cape covered it well during Mass with the Bishop.
I think the new one sends a negative (militant) message instead of a positive (honorable) one the former look gave. Besides a sword goes with a cape. The new one just as well as have an M-16 rifle to be kosher. Just an opinion
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C
commenter
Guest
The older knights are much more likely to be veterans than younger knights. I lack enough info to make a good guess, but of the members that are passing away, at least 80% are noted to be veterans.
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commenter
Guest
You could be right! The new uniforms remind me of newsreels of Field Marshall Montomery from British WWII. The old ones remind me of … I am not sure what. I would be curious what people think, in places that did not have the classic cape and chapeau all these years. Which would they choose?
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Duesenberg
Guest
Talk about a stretch. I’ve never seen an image of Montgomery wearing a navy blue blazer with a KofC patch on it (or any blue blazer for that matter), a white dress shirt, medium grey dress slacks, or even a black beret with a KofC flash on it.
At least your stretch is not as bad as those who compare the new uniform to Camp Fire Girls or Girl Scouts. It’s odd that no one ever seems to compare them to the Knights of Malta Uniform or similar. I guess that wouldn’t help the old anti-beret agenda and all:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Some KoM posses even has sporty “patrol caps” –
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TK421
Guest
@commenter
:hushed:That’s a really high number (maybe I’m off how many men were WW2/Korean/Vietnam veterans in their generation, but I thought it was still well under 50%).
Does KofC do special advertising towards vets?
:hushed:That’s a really high number (maybe I’m off how many men were WW2/Korean/Vietnam veterans in their generation, but I thought it was still well under 50%).
Does KofC do special advertising towards vets?
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Titivillus
Guest
It’s hard to tell from this 1957 article.commenter:
Latter 1920’s, when the tux was also introduced.
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The cover image looks like there was still some white tie & tails; some of the other photos show top hats. I am pretty sure there was a while that top hats were used in civic contexts and chapeau in liturgical.
SK Titivillus
credentials
Who is a regalia wearing member of the color corps, but who has no interest in the uniform, primarily for stylistic reasons. He would look like a fat old man, wearing a beret, and nothing to do with his hands.
(He’s a fat old man now, but a cape and a sword disguise a multitude of faults.)
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Augustinian
Guest
There were like 15 million men in the military during WWII- real difficult to get a deferment. If you were in your 30’s, and were the means of support to your family- like John Wayne- you didn’t have to go. Some men got exemptions because they had important jobs in industry, and but most guys with those kinds of jobs wouldn’t have to go anyhow due to age. Definitely, a majority of men in that age group were in the military.
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Duesenberg
Guest
I don’t believe so. I suspect like today, some are simply loathe to get rid of the old uniforms.
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otjm
Guest
Jump boots as part of a uniform? Is he jump qualified, or has the Army gone farther to level everyone out? It was a sad day that the beret became common uniform.
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Duesenberg
Guest
At least the Rangers got tan berets.
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phil19034
Guest
I think people don’t compare them to the Knights of Malta because the Knights of Malta have a few different “uniforms.” They have what you posted in these pics and then they have robs they use for Liturgical events and formal eventscommenter:
Talk about a stretch. I’ve never seen an image of Montgomery wearing a navy blue blazer with a KofC patch on it (or any blue blazer for that matter), a white dress shirt, medium grey dress slacks, or even a black beret with a KofC flash on it.
At least your stretch is not as bad as those who compare the new uniform to Camp Fire Girls or Girl Scouts. It’s odd that no one ever seems to compare them to the Knights of Malta Uniform or similar. I guess that wouldn’t help the old anti-beret agenda and all:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Some KoM posses even has sporty “patrol caps” –
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
It’s not just one uniform for the Knights Malta. I might be wrong, but I think most people who have an issue with the new Knights of Columbus uniforms is because the uniforms do not seem as liturgical as the old uniforms.
http://www.tourisme-villedieu.com/en/chevaliers-malte-Villedieu.htm
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