Which Liturgy of the Hours translation?

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This is by no means a good thing, but there are times I am angered by the ICEL translations in the LOTH. I really wish I could get over this, but I’m human. I’m just looking for a translation that cuts all the fluff. What do the churches in the UK and Australia use? And also, will there be a new LOTH translation with the new missal translation?
 
BertBlyleven said:
This is by no means a good thing, but there are times I am angered by the ICEL translations in the LOTH. I really wish I could get over this, but I’m human. I’m just looking for a translation that cuts all the fluff. What do the churches in the UK and Australia use? And also, will there be a new LOTH translation with the new missal translation?
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No, there won’t be a new LOTH translation with the missal revision. Supposedly it’s in the works, but will still take years.
I can’t say that I’m “angered” by the current translation, but it certainly does clank in spots.
 
ICEL means International Committee for English in the Liturgy and it was to have produced
an edition to be used everyplace in the world were English was spoken. However, the finished product was considered so far off & not a tanslation of the Latin Edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, that Great Britain & a number of other countries refused to accept it.
Their local Bishops produced their own version. So, the LOTH used in the UK is different than ours & it is considered more in line w/the Official Latin Edition approved by the Vatican.
The Nuns at the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville, AL use the UK edition.
 
Just to clarify:

Assuming that I, as a laywoman (not attached to a third order, just a plain old garden variety laywoman,) wanted to pray the Hours in Latin, it would be as a private devotion, and not in unity with the Church? (That would be a pretty big assumption, because my Latin isn’t that great.)

Or did I misunderstand this completely?
 
odile53 said:
Just to clarify:

Assuming that I, as a laywoman (not attached to a third order, just a plain old garden variety laywoman,) wanted to pray the Hours in Latin, it would be as a private devotion, and not in unity with the Church? (That would be a pretty big assumption, because my Latin isn’t that great.)

Or did I misunderstand this completely?
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I would suggest a side-by-side Latin-English where you don’t have to rely completely on the translation, but still being authentic.
 
If I bought the UK version would it be considered a private devotion since I’m in the U.S. ?
 
HOLYHEARTS said:
ICEL means International Committee for English in the Liturgy and it was to have produced
an edition to be used everyplace in the world were English was spoken. However, the finished product was considered so far off & not a tanslation of the Latin Edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, that Great Britain & a number of other countries refused to accept it.
Their local Bishops produced their own version. So, the LOTH used in the UK is different than ours & it is considered more in line w/the Official Latin Edition approved by the Vatican.
The Nuns at the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville, AL use the UK edition.
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They don’t use the UK edition, because it’s better than the American edition. WE, Franciscans use the Franciscan Liturgy of the Hours. The English edition was published in the UK. We are not allowed to use the Roman Edition, Benedictine Edition or any other edition in any language.
There is now a Franciscan insert for the Roman Edition published in the USA, but that’s too bulky. It’s like holding two books.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Odell said:
Well once I get good with Shorter Christian Prayer. I want the best possible translation for Liturgy of the Hours. I was looking on Amazon and came across this review on Christian Prayer

It ?
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puzzled
the translation is the one approved by your bishops’ conference for your country. I am not aware there is more than one option for those required to recite the office (the ordained and some religious communities).

I have a 4 volume US set, a 3 Volume UK set, SSP, CP and at least a couple of other versions, including a Latin breviary that used to belong to my brother, and none of them have any art or illustrations whatever so that part is beyond my competence.

a lay person who is not bound by canon law to recite the office may use any version that is approved by any bishop of any country, and can pray any part of the office.

the entire office is meant to be chanted. reciting, reading silently or other methods are concessions that are permitted but if possible those required to pray the office who do so in community should chant if they are able.

if a lay person is an associate, secular, oblate etc attached to a religious order you should use the version you were taught during your formation.
 
Yes, the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration in Hanceville, AL do use the UK version for those motives: the translation is better & it does not have the Psalm Prayers that are nowhere in the Latin Edition of the LOTH. They have recommened it to lay folks who live around the Shrine & who attend the LOTH at the Shrine.
The laity can use anything they want if they are not bound by obedience & the what version is to be used in their Religious Community.
I am not aware of any pictures or illustration in the LOTH either, puzzlejean.
 
odile53 said:
Assuming that I, as a laywoman (not attached to a third order, just a plain old garden variety laywoman,) wanted to pray the Hours in Latin, it would be as a private devotion, and not in unity with the Church? (That would be a pretty big assumption, because my Latin isn’t that great.)
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If you want to pray the Liturgy of the Hours, as a laywoman but with the Church as Liturgy, you can use either the translation approved for your episcopal conference (for the US, that’s the ICEL English version), or the Latin version (Liturgia Horarum), which is always allowed for everyone everywhere. You could also mix and match between the ICEL English and the Liturgia Horarum. Or you could pray the 1962 Roman Breviary in Latin.

Anything else - such as an unapproved translation, or an Anglican Breviary - would be a private devotion and not really the prayer of the Church or Liturgy, even if it was very close. (I’m not sure about using other language versions - I would imagine that it would be licit to pray, say, an approved Spanish version as well?)
 
HOLYHEARTS said:
Yes, the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration in Hanceville, AL do use the UK version for those motives: the translation is better & it does not have the Psalm Prayers that are nowhere in the Latin Edition of the LOTH. They have recommened it to lay folks who live around the Shrine & who attend the LOTH at the Shrine.
The laity can use anything they want if they are not bound by obedience & the what version is to be used in their Religious Community.
I am not aware of any pictures or illustration in the LOTH either, puzzlejean.
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If you look very carefully at their ordo, it will say that they must use the Franciscan Breviary. The only English version available for a long time was the English version. The American version is very new. Whether they recommend it or not is really up to them. What they use and why they use it, is not up to them. We, Francisans, have no choice in the matter. That is decided for us by the Franciscan Liturgical Commission, which is empowered by the General Ministers. A Poor Clare can no more pick and choose her breviary than can a Capuchin, an Observant Franciscan, a Franciscan of the Renewal or a Franciscan Brother of Peace.

We have to follow the Franciscan liturgical calendar. That breviary is the only one that followed our calendar. Remember, we are not on the same liturgical canlendar as you are. We overlap for most of the year, but then we pull away at times. For example, just last week, August 2 was the Solemnity fo the Our Lady of the Angels. It does not show up on the Roman Liturgical Calendar. The ICEL translation of the breviary is not useful. In two weeks, we have the Feast of St. Maximilian Kolbe. In the Roman Calendar, it’s a memorial. In the Franciscan Calendar, it’s a feast. The Franciscan Breviary will have all of the necessary psalms, readings, collects and prayers to the feast. The Roman Breviary will not. In August it’s the solemnity of St. Clare. Again, it’s not in the Roman Breviary. It’s a memorial for the Universal Church. The Roman Breviary will not work. That’s the way this works for Franciscans. It’s not a pick and choose. Picking and choosing is only allowed when you have two Franciscan choices.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF 🙂
 
So does anyone know where I could get the UK version? As book or even app?
 
Brother, I know you know many things, but trust me, the Hanceville Poor Clares have used the UK LOTH for years & still use it. I lived in Hanceviile & was there again in June & July.
 
They are of Pontifical Right , so that may be why…However, I do admit there has been quite a mess there. But no one told them to use another LOTH even though alot of other things changed.
 
HOLYHEARTS said:
They are of Pontifical Right , so that may be why…However, I do admit there has been quite a mess there. But no one told them to use another LOTH even though alot of other things changed.
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I’m not saying that they don’t use the UK version. I’m saying that the version that they use is the Franciscan version. It’s the same one that most Franciscans in the English speaking world use. The Franciscan edition put out by St. Joseph is much newer. My community uses the UK edition except in one house that changed to the St. Joseph edition, which was translated by ICEL.

The four Franciscan orders are of Pontifical Right. The Franciscan Congregations are mixed. For example, the Franciscan Friars of the Eternal Word are not of Pontifical Right. They are a public association of the faithful of diocesan right. I dare anyone to say that three times with their mouth full. 😃

What is the mess? As far as I have heard, things are sailing very smoothly for the three communities: friars, nuns and the Brother Knights.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
ByzCath said:
That just means that it is approved as a Psalter, it does not necessarily mean that it can be used in the LoTH.
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The words in the mundelein psalter are exactly the same as found in the Shorter Christian Prayer, Christian Prayer, and the 4 vol LOTH. However, the songs have been replaced with Latin songs. It only contains Morning and Evening prayers.

At our house, my wife uses the mundelein psalter and I use Christian Prayer. After a while you get used to where the pitch changes are made to chant the office.
 
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