Which makes more sense, Christianity or Islam?

[Timi_Celcer]

I hope both Christians and muslims will be able to participate. But let just start with some of my questions i have for muslims.

How is this logical? Allah decevied people to think that Jesus was crucified and knowingly created a religion that is much bigger than “his” and has much more conversion every year. Why would Allah do that?

Also i would like to aks muslims, how is it that God at first “created” “false” Christianity and then after He “created” it, more than 500 years later when alot of people were already “decevied” and long dead, He decided to correct the then time Christians, and send a prophet outside of the most populated Christian areas(Europe, North Africa,…), to Arabia, were most people were polytheist , so Muhammad could correct nobody except for polytheists and start a tyrannical Islamic empire, which conquered most of middle east and North Africa and “His” new religion mostly stayed in that parts till now, while Christianity expanded basically everywere except for Islamic parts where 85% of muslims are? And “the muslim world” probably comprises about 15-16%, 20% at best of the world by land. While Christian world comprises for around 55-60% % probably if not more.

Also why did muslims lose the “big” battles against Christians when they were fighting for Europe. Why didn’t God give them the strenght so they could conquer Europe and become a dominant religion of the world?

And my last question, is there a general accepted “truth” about the Quran? Because as far as i know there are Sunni muslims,…and many more. So who has the last say about what that verse in Quran really meant? As a Catholic i can easily answer this question for my religion, the Roman Catholic Church. They(popes and others) named the books of the holy Bible and they are infallible(popes) for explaining to the people what each verse really meant. The Roman Catholic Church was choosen by God to keep people from falling to error about faith and morals. While in Islam, there is no general agremeent about this issuses i believe and people because there is no infallible interperter of their scripture can fall into error about what Quran teaches. Why did God allow that?

 

[Sam_777]

I always thinking why GOD doesn’t put a permanent sign in the sky showing His true path!, for example, instead of the moon each night we see, He would put starts in a cross order (representing Christianity) or simply the name of the religion understood by any human on earth.

I think that will end all the disputes between all religions on earth (Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc), and it will be a compelling reason to judge people on the judgment day.

 

[Least]

It depends on whether or not you want the plane to land on a runway.

ba-dum-bump. [Wait for groans. . .]

What? Forgiveness and tolerance will not be found here, only sardonic humor.

P.S. →

Leave GOD out of it, HE didn’t ask you to make the choice, just to follow him. *That *caused “religion.”

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Leave GOD out of it, HE didn’t ask you to make the choice, just to follow him. *That *caused “religion.”

Actually, he really, really did. Our entire lives are a series of choices of whether we will chose him or ourselves.

Long and narrow is the path, etc…

 

[Polycarp1]

Actually, he really, really did. Our entire lives are a series of choices of whether we will chose him or ourselves.

Long and narrow is the path, etc…

The Truth always makes more sense. Jesus said “I am the Way. the Truth and the Life. No one goes to the father but through me”

 

[benjohnson]

(taking my Lutheran hat off, and putting my previously well worn agnostic hat on)

Christianity is hands-down most unbelievable: That an all-powerfull God would die for you is beyond comprehension.

Islam is like many other religions - it glorifies power, conquest, and submission.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

(taking my Lutheran hat off, and putting my previously well worn agnostic hat on)

Christianity is hands-down most unbelievable: That an all-powerfull God would die for you is beyond comprehension.

Islam is like many other religions - it glorifies power, ]

Allah’s power surely.

conquest,

-What do you mean by “conquest”?
-Do you think that most Muslims would agree that Islam glorifies “conquest”?
-Given the history of Christianity, would a Muslim not have a similar amount of evidence to make the same claim about Christianity?

I think it might be better to focus on the veracity of the truth claims rather than stuff like that. Maybe that’s just me, though.

and submission.

Certainly.

Christianity and Catholic Christianity value submission as well.

 

[Digitonomy]

In answer to your general question, I would agree with benjohnson that Islam is much more believable as to the big points - the 5 pillars are pretty straight forward, while the trinity, the hypostatic union, the crucifixion and resurrection, the nature of sacraments, are all a bit more difficult to grasp. It is the smaller points, some of which you address, which I think are much more persuasive in the Christian vs the Muslim side.

So who has the last say about what that verse in Quran really meant? As a Catholic i can easily answer this question for my religion, the Roman Catholic Church. They(popes and others) named the books of the holy Bible and they are infallible(popes) for explaining to the people what each verse really meant.

The only problem with this is that the Church hasn’t explained what each verse means. In fact, there are very few verses where we as Catholics don’t have the scholarly freedom to interpret as we wish. If that were not the case, every Catholic study Bible would have almost identical footnotes.

 

[benjohnson]

-What do you mean by “conquest”?

Dictionary definition.

-Do you think that most Muslims would agree that Islam glorifies “conquest”?

Not sure how that related to the OP, but if we’re talking modern times then ‘yes’. Christians generally respect the right to come to believe in God without coercion.

-Given the history of Christianity, would a Muslim not have a similar amount of evidence to make the same claim about Christianity?

History of the actions of Christian leaders is separate from the Christian religion that preaches Christ crucified. Contrast the Bible with the Koran and the Hadiths.

I think it might be better to focus on the veracity of the truth claims rather than stuff like that. Maybe that’s just me, though.

Go on then! I look forward to it! Franky, my response was half baked and I’m interested in keeping the conversation going.

My expedience is that that proclaiming the Son of God crucified doesn’t fit with what the world expects as god(s). It’s certainly not what I expected - even growing up in Western civilization. My expectation was an all powerful god(s) that behaved like a human(s) would.

 

[dronald]

Islam I would say is more believable because it’s exactly what one would expect if they know nothing about either Religion. I’ll give some examples:

1. In Islam, one may have sex in Heaven (any time one likes) there are rivers flowing with wine and beautiful women. It’s the perfect paradise where anything you want is granted to you.

In Christianity we know that God will be there and all we can be certain of is that we will spend eternity worshiping Him. Nothing about the pleasures of Heaven because God’s presence is all we’ll desire.

1. In Islam one can be married in Heaven

In Christianity, things like marriage will cease. It’s not a worldly place with worldy concepts.

1. In Islam one goes to Hell because they don’t believe in Islam. The Theological explanation is absent, but it is what it is. Allah wants believers in Islam.

In Christianity Jesus died for our sins leaving sin in the grave, which means we have been redeemed. We are not saved because God likes the Christian Religion the most, but there is deep theology behind salvation.

1. In Islam your good and bad deeds are recorded. The good must outweigh the bad to get into Heaven.

In Christianity only Jesus can save us from our sins. Calling ourselves “Christian” and doing good deeds does not mean that we can enter Heaven. God will let nothing unclean enter, not one sin. Nothing.

 

[famdigy]

I hope both Christians and muslims will be able to participate. But let just start with some of my questions i have for muslims.

How is this logical? Allah decevied people to think that Jesus was crucified and knowingly created a religion that is much bigger than “his” and has much more conversion every year. Why would Allah do that?

Also i would like to aks muslims, how is it that God at first “created” “false” Christianity and then after He “created” it, more than 500 years later when alot of people were already “decevied” and long dead, He decided to correct the then time Christians, and send a prophet outside of the most populated Christian areas(Europe, North Africa,…), to Arabia, were most people were polytheist…

Also why did muslims lose the “big” battles against Christians when they were fighting for Europe. Why didn’t God give them the strenght so they could conquer Europe and become a dominant religion of the world?

And my last question, is there a general accepted “truth” about the Quran? Because as far as i know there are Sunni muslims,…and many more. So who has the last say about what that verse in Quran really meant?

Hi Timi, Thanks for posting these questions. I sense there is a degree of biased in your questioning so I hope you view my response with an open mind.

First as a level set. God does not actively deceive people. He doesn’t go out of his way to misguide or deceive anyone because that would mean God is unjust or unfair. However, when someone closes their heart and mind to truth and reason and refuses to follow God’s guidance then God withholds His guidance from that person. His guidance is like the light we use to find our way to the truth so without his light there is only darkness and in darkness we don’t know where we are going and lose our way.

This is what the Quran means when we read about Allah deceiving or leading someone astray. He does that by withholding his guidance from that person.

The other point to level set is free will. God gave us free will to decide our own destiny. If he wanted to he could have made everyone a believer but part of the purpose behind why we are here is so that we can find the truth and follow it through our own free will.

So to answer your first question. Even though God made it so that Jesus appeared to have been crucified. The truth of What really happened to Jesus was with his desiples. In particular John the Baptist who was Jesus’ right hand man. John was the most knowledgable about Jesus’s teachings than anyone else at that time.

I believe the people who followed John after Jesus were not misled to believe he died for their sins. Also, Christianity was not created by God. Christianity didn’t exist until hundreds of years later after the it was formalized by the church.

Second question, God alone decides where his prophets and messengers come from. Even though He sent Jesus from among the Israelites most of them chose to deny him. The other reason may be to test people in letting go of their Egos and pride. We’re all created equally in God’s sights so it shouldn’t matter if the prophet God sends is Arabic, or African, or Indian. We should be able to see past our egos and pride if we really care about the truth.

Third question, Muslims lost the battles against the Europeans because Muslims lost their way. The Muslim religion was also corrupted by an imposter version created by Aisha and her children. Those Muslims who saw past Aisha’s fabrications and false teachings found the truth with Ali (AS) and his progeny. By that point Ali’s followers were few in number and Aisha’s children built an empire for themselves in the name of Islam and the name of Muhammad (p). They were an empire with all of the ambitions and aspirations of any other empire that came before it.

Fourth question, you’ll get a different answer depending on who you ask. In my opinion the imams of the Ahlul-bayt (Muhammad’s family through Ali) have the final authority on interpreting the Quran.

I hope this helped.

 

[Reuben_J]

So to answer your first question. Even though God made it so that Jesus appeared to have been crucified. The truth of What really happened to Jesus was with his desiples. In particular John the Baptist who was Jesus’ right hand man. John was the most knowledgable about Jesus’s teachings than anyone else at that time.

Just a quick one on this point, famdigy. John the Baptist was not Jesus’ ‘right hand man’, neither he was a disciple. He was a prophet and had a ministry of his own. There is no evidence to show that they worked together. That was why there were followers of John the Baptist, some which no doubt would join Jesus’ ministry later on. In any case the former died (executed by Herod) quite early during Jesus ministry.

If Jesus is merely a prophet as claimed by Muslims, it is interesting to note that John the Baptist, he himself a prophet, said that he was unworthy even to tie Jesus’ sandal. This is a lowly job but yet John said he was unworthy even to do that on Jesus. That is much to reflect upon, for a prophet to say about another prophet. Of course John always said that he was paving the way for Jesus until he came and when he did, John would decrease and Jesus increase, an unorthodox way indeed of treating a prophet, if indeed Jesus was one.

The disciples that were closest to Jesus, ‘the inner circle’, were undoubtedly the trio of Peter, James and John.

 

[famdigy]

Just a quick one on this point, famdigy. John the Baptist was not Jesus’ ‘right hand man’, neither he was a disciple. He was a prophet and had a ministry of his own. There is no evidence to show that they worked together. That was why there were followers of John the Baptist, some which no doubt would join Jesus’ ministry later on. In any case the former died (executed by Herod) quite early during Jesus ministry.

The disciples that were closest to Jesus, ‘the inner circle’, were undoubtedly the trio of Peter, James and John.

Thank you for the correction Ruben. I think I meant Peter instead of John but I’ll have to go back and check my sources on this which is hard to do at the moment cause I’m doing a bunch of renos in my home and everything is a mess.

 

[Reuben_J]

Thank you for the correction Ruben. I think I meant Peter instead of John but I’ll have to go back and check my sources on this which is hard to do at the moment cause I’m doing a bunch of renos in my home and everything is a mess.

It can be quite confusing as there were two very prominent Johns of the Gospels. John the Baptist was the son of Elizabeth and Zechariah, which was prophesied to the latter. He and Jesus were cousins (second) which explained why Jesus was reasonably quite depressed after his execution that he went to the mountain all by himself for a night.

The other John was the young apostle who was also responsible for a Gospel and epistles of the New Testament. He could be arguably Jesus’ favourite and titled himself as the ‘beloved apostle’ and could be the closest to Jesus though perhaps less in stature, maybe due to his age, than Peter. He was the longest surviving apostles probably right to the second century.

Have a nice day. Chores as home are never done.

 

[Amoon]

I will answer your general question.

Let’s think about it logically, Judaism cannot be the truth because Jews reject Jesus, and how could anyone reject Jesus, the Word of God and one of his mightiest Prophets who was born of Virgin Mary, the best woman of all nations. The Messiah, and the one that God will send to defeat the anti-Christ.

Christianity, on the other hand cannot be the truth because Christians believe that god is one in three, and also they believe that god dies for our sins, but God cannot die! A god who dies is not a true god! But if we say that god died for three days, then there was another god who was alive. So obviously, we have two gods!

Needless to say, other non-Abrahamic religions cannot be true, because they don’t even believe in Abraham.

Quran 2:130 And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.

Islam is the only other religion that teaches that God is One in Unity. Muslims believes in all the Prophets of God as the best of mankind, and believe in all the revelations of God and that was sent to Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus. Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammed through angel Gabriel, or do you say that Prophet Mohammed is the author of Quran? Or some of you might say that it was revealed to him through demon!

Prophet Mohammed was chosen to guide people to the true and one God, and those who say there was no need for a prophet after Jesus, I say yes there was a need because Christians are not following the teaching of Jesus anymore. Jesus is not god and he never claimed to be. The bible itself contains so many versus about Jesus not being god. If Jesus was god, he would have said it clearly “worship me and pray for me” but no, Jesus prayed to God and worshiped him alone.

God is all knowing, but Jesus isn’t:

Mark 24: 32-36:
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Quran 79: 42. They ask you (O Muhammad) about the Hour, - when will be its appointed time? 43. You have no knowledge to say anything about it, 44. To your Lord belongs (the knowledge of) the term thereof? 45. You (O Muhammad) are only a warner for those who fear it,

Jesus was sent to a specific nation only, not to mankind

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Quran 34: 28. And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.

Quran 25: 1. Blessed be He Who sent down the criterion (of right and wrong, i.e. this Qur’an) to His slave (Muhammad) that he may be a warner to the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)

 

[Starrsmother]

I always try to be kind and considerate to our muslim brothers and sisters when I interact with them–which is seldom, I admit. HOWEVER, I’ve always thought that if when I run into a person who adheres to a religion that nearly deifies a prophet who can be plainly shown to not even have been in many of the places he supposedly was per the Quran, is most popular in 3rd world countries like Syria, and believes that if he blows himself up in an airplane, he will be awarded 72 virgins in the next world, that I’d sure love to be a Realtor with a deep need to sell a piece of swamp land over a sink hole in Florida!!

 

[Reuben_J]

but God cannot die!

God can’t but human does (die).

God is all knowing, but Jesus isn’t:

God is but human isn’t.

Both of which are consistent with what Jesus is.

Quran 79: 42. They ask you (O Muhammad) about the Hour, - when will be its appointed time? 43. You have no knowledge to say anything about it, 44. To your Lord belongs (the knowledge of) the term thereof? 45. You (O Muhammad) are only a warner for those who fear it,

Quran 34: 28. And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.

Quran 25: 1. Blessed be He Who sent down the criterion (of right and wrong, i.e. this Qur’an) to His slave (Muhammad) that he may be a warner to the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)

Since you commented on Biblical verses, I try to comment on what the Quran says, if you do not mind.

Allah might send Mohammad as a warner, but does a warner include killing? For that was what Mohammad did.

More than eight hundreds Jewish prisoners of war were executed (by cutting their throats) after the Battle of the Trench. They were sent to Mohammad in batches who would then slaughter them one by one and their bodies were thrown into a pre-dug trench in the market place for all to see. Nearly all the able bodied Jews were massacred in this way and their women and children were sold or claimed as war booties thus eliminating an entire community.

Probably that was the right thing to do in seventh century Arabia, but today that is called murder. Mohammad clearly had stepped out of the bound of being a warner unless this (the killing) was commanded by Allah though I have not seen any Quranic verses that say so.

 

[Starrsmother]

God can’t but human does (die).

God is but human isn’t.

Both of which are consistent with what Jesus is.

Since you commented on Biblical verses, I try to comment on what the Quran says, if you do not mind.

Allah might send Mohammad as a warner, but does a warner include killing? For that was what Mohammad did.

More than eight hundreds Jewish prisoners of war were executed (by cutting their throats) after the Battle of the Trench. They were sent to Mohammad in batches who would then slaughter them one by one and their bodies were thrown into a pre-dug trench in the market place for all to see. Nearly all the able bodied Jews were massacred in this way and their women and children were sold or claimed as war booties thus eliminating an entire community.

Probably that was the right thing to do in seventh century Arabia, but today that is called murder. Mohammad clearly had stepped out of the bound of being a warner unless this (the killing) was commanded by Allah though I have not seen any Quranic verses that say so.

Actually Count Dracula–a Catholic head of state—had the most workable foreign policy I’ve ever heard of in dealing with the Ottomans ie muslim Turks of his day. They kept attacking him and harassing him until they finally ran him up a final hill where his castle stood. At that point, he explained to them in their own language what the words “Please stop!” mean!! And he didn’t even have to have Russia run interference for him

 

[RanTan]

About battle of trench, i tried to find ref but efforts went in vein.
Plz give reference of murder of jews?

 

[RanTan]

Some questions please if somebody would be great enough to answer and clear my mind…
1- why was death only option for forgiveness/ salvation??;; why not just forgive men by himself in the power of God Himself??? Or ask his father for some cutsy??? Why making history by death only???