Which man?

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They definitely were close at hand but they also did work. Adam’s first job was to tend the garden of eden–genesis 2. Perhaps they shared in the sin. It just doesn’t seem right that adam’s Blaine of Eve was just. I also don’t think it’s just the other way either. Adam was wrong when he blamed eve and people today who Blaine their boyfriend spouse etc at just as wrong. But God did punish Eve for her role in the whole thing. So she did sin, but her sin did not justify adam’s and his sin did not justify her’s.
 
“by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin so that death spread to all men because all sinned”

“god made man in his own image; male and female he made them.”

“so when eve saw…she took it and ate it and gave to her husband with her and he ate.”

“for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.”

by which man did sin enter into the world, by adam, eve, adamandeve…?
by adam through eve
 
Note that, according to the story, even Eve was made from Adam. He is the progenitor of all humanity in a way she is not.

Eve sinned first, and set up the conditions for Adam’s sin, but the only one who could doom all humanity by his act was Adam.

We Catholics like to point out the way God “bookended” the whole thing when it came time for the Redemption. Once again, only one man (Jesus) was qualified to save everyone, by being both human and God. As the Scriptures tell us, Jesus acted as another Adam and reversed the error of the original Adam. But, even though it was not necessary for our salvation (just as Eve alone sinning would not have brought about our damnation), God arranged things so that a woman (Mary) would, by her prior obedience, set the stage for her divine Son’s saving obedience, thus symbolically reversing Eve’s role as well. This time around, God even arranged that the Man would get his human flesh and nature from the associated woman, whereas the first time the woman had taken flesh and humanity from the man.
 
We see in Genesis 3 when God questioned Adam whether he had eaten of the fruit,Adam’s reply wasn’t all that direct: He seems to spend a lot more time explaining how the forbidden fruit got into his hand , rather than focusing on how it actually got into his mouth (reminds me a lot of myself sometimes when I’m in the confessional -:doh2:-).
Genesis 3:11-12 [NAB]
Then he asked, “Who told you that you were naked? You have eaten, then, from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat!” The man replied, “The woman whom you put here with me - she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate it.”
The Mom God Scrutiny mentioned in post # 21 goes something like this:

If my dear late mom had been in God’s place - asking the question and I had been in Adam’s place- required to reply, I never would have gotten away with the answer Adam gave. If I had ever tried to tell my mom , “The woman whom you put here with me - she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate it,” my mom would’ve had her riposte all ready :" And if the woman had told you to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, you would’ve done that too - wouldn’t you ?!"

i191.photobucket.com/albums/z288/Nymphsin/Smilies/SheMadeMeDoIt.gif

Umm . . . yeah, right . . . Talk to my mom.

.
🙂
 
That seems straight forward enough. So did Eve not sin?
Hi!

…got here late… but if it has not been put forward: Adam.

While Eve is the first agent perpetrator of the sin of disobedience, the one that first buys into the serpent’s temptation, and also the first one that eats of the forbidden fruit, it is Adam who Receives the Word of God and who is held accountable as the primary agent of disobedience… recall Jesus’ Word: “…to whom much is entrusted, much more will be demanded…”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Typical. The man gets the blame. 🙂
Hi!

…well, He was entrusted with the whole shebang–so he has to answer for the responsibility delegated to him. Remember the ancient serpent did not steal Eve away and whispered sweet nothings into her ears… Adam, the big dote, was standing right by Eve… just sucking up all the sweet temptations…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
An interesting thing in this regard is that though it is said that Jesus came to redeem us out of the sin committed by Adam ,Jesus has not said a word about Adam or about that sin! To make matters worse ,he has said so many reasons why he came,but not this reason!!
Hi, Joseie!

…yeah, there are many things Jesus did and said that were not Written in Scriptures; yet, by the development of the Gospels and the Epistles we can surmise God’s Revelation being Unfolded… St. Paul speaks of Christ Being the Rock that Followed the Hebrews in the desert providing them with Life sustaining water; St. Peter reveals that it is the Holy Spirit Who, throughout time, made friends of God and Inspired them to propagate the Word of the Promise; further, he states that the angels and the prophets wanted to Know about Christ (time, place, circumstances) and that it was Revealed to them that that Knowledge was being Kept till the fullness of times–that Knowledge would be revealed only to those who enjoyed the Word’s Incarnation and experienced the God-with-us (Immanuel) personally!

…so it is not surprising that the New Testament’s Sacred Writings Unfold with greater details what Jesus Came to Reveal!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
That actually does not seem so terrible at all in light of all that he did say, all that is said of him in the old testement and all that his apostles said about him. This comment reminds me of the “did Jesus really clams to be God” question. He never said, “I am God.” But he said a lot of things that only make sense if He is.

John the Baptist, “behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!”
The angel to Mary, “for he shall save His People from their sins.”
Isaiah, “surely he was stricken for our transgressions and by His stripes we are healed.”

That’s three of many. Even Paul says, “death spread to all men because all sinned.” It is interesting that he does not say that all died because one sinned. Original sin seems more to the effect that original sin created a legacy of corruption thus all sinned. If it were possible for anyone of themselves to not sin, the death of the messiah seems a bit unnecessary. However, the corruption inherited from Adam makes sin assured for those who are not united with Christ in his death and resurrection.
Hi!

…we also have Revelation (as in prophecy) that does not state it directly but indirectly:
32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.
(St. John 10:32-33)

21 And the scribes and Pharisees began to think, saying: Who is this who speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? 22 And when Jesus knew their thoughts, answering, he said to them: What is it you think in your hearts? 23 Which is easier to say, Thy sins are forgiven thee; or to say, Arise and walk? 24 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say to thee, Arise, take up thy bed, and go into thy house. (St. Luke 5:21-24)

23 Now when he was at Jerusalem, at the pasch, upon the festival day, many believed in his name, seeing his signs which he did. 24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, 25 And because he needed not that any should give testimony of man: for he knew what was in man. (St. John 2:23-25)
Clearly, much more is being Revealed than what we tend to think…

…and what of those two fantastic pearls?:
41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
(St. Luke 1:41-44)

28 Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. (St. John 20:28)
Clearly, Jesus is Recognized as the Lord (Yahweh God) even from His conception!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I agree with this, however how far should Adam have gone in protecting Eve? To the point of murder? To the point of surrendering his life?
Hi, Darryl!

…he could have reminded himself and Eve that God had just given them all of the goodies in the Garden to eat; that He only made one mandate: ‘do not eat from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil.’

…but I’m pretty sure he was all up in that sweet-looking fruit and the promises made: ‘surely you will not die…’ and ‘you’ll become just as He…’

…then there’s that ball and chain thing: ‘honey, why don’t we try it; it couldn’t hurt!’ :hypno::hypno::hypno:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
They definitely were close at hand but they also did work. Adam’s first job was to tend the garden of eden–genesis 2. Perhaps they shared in the sin. It just doesn’t seem right that adam’s Blaine of Eve was just. I also don’t think it’s just the other way either. Adam was wrong when he blamed eve and people today who Blaine their boyfriend spouse etc at just as wrong. But God did punish Eve for her role in the whole thing. So she did sin, but her sin did not justify adam’s and his sin did not justify her’s.
Hi!

…correct! Each person/entity is held accountable for his/her part of the transgression.

Adam is the main agent responsible because it is Adam who received the Word (Command) and because Yahweh God made Eve to support/assist Adam… there’s built-in (anthropomorphic) relationship: Adam, the first, Creature of God is responsible for Eve, God’s second Creature. Yet, since they are both Created in God’s Image and Likeness they are both equally engendered with the same dignity and hence are held responsible for their individual behavior (choices).

Yet, since Adam is the first Creation, he represents and holds humanity bound: Original Sin.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
We see in Genesis 3 when God questioned Adam whether he had eaten of the fruit,Adam’s reply wasn’t all that direct: He seems to spend a lot more time explaining how the forbidden fruit got into his hand , rather than focusing on how it actually got into his mouth (reminds me a lot of myself sometimes when I’m in the confessional -:doh2:-).

The Mom God Scrutiny mentioned in post # 21 goes something like this:

If my dear late mom had been in God’s place - asking the question and I had been in Adam’s place- required to reply, I never would have gotten away with the answer Adam gave. If I had ever tried to tell my mom , “The woman whom you put here with me - she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate it,” my mom would’ve had her riposte all ready :" And if the woman had told you to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, you would’ve done that too - wouldn’t you ?!"

i191.photobucket.com/albums/z288/Nymphsin/Smilies/SheMadeMeDoIt.gif

Umm . . . yeah, right . . . Talk to my mom.

.
🙂
Hi!

…yeah… but, Adam didn’t get away with it… not only that, but he dragged all of his descendants into it!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hi!

…yeah… but, Adam didn’t get away with it… not only that, but he dragged all of his descendants into it!

Maran atha!

Angel
Agreed.

But it remains peculiar how some of our human character traits (such as shifting the blame on someone or something else) don’t seem to have changed that much since our first parents’ era. Particularly in today’s world there doesn’t appear to be much accountability required in a plethora of serious life issues involving transgressions.

Of course, in God’s perfect plan, once Adam had dragged all of his descendants into it, then Christ came in the fullness of time and raised man’s calling to a level much loftier than Adam and Eve’s original state in the garden before the Fall ; we are called to become sons and daughters of God.

Our Blessed Mother - the new Eve, is the supreme example of this calling’s fulfillment. In his book True Devotion to Mary , St. Louis de Montfort explains [paraphrase] that* “the Blessed Virgin Mary, with one sigh, can mobilize all the forces of Heaven.”*
 
Sounds deep. What does it really mean?
It means:)

God CANNOT error

That God is choosing to FIRST create man [male gender] did so with a purpose in mind. THAT being just as the It means:)

That God is choosing to FIRST create man [male gender] did so with a purpose in mind. THAT being just as the Father is the head of the Church; the MAN, male gender, is to be the head of the family; and thus responsible at least in part for the wife’s WRONG decision

Adams failure to correct Eve, or POSSIBLY ??] to prevent her from this error is noted and judged by GOD as ADAM’S error as a lack of due-diligence. Furthering his guilt.
This was born our in OT TRADITION of Males leadership; as God-the-Father is the head of the Church; the MAN, male gender, is to be the head of the family; and thus responsible at least in part for the wife’s WRONG decision [as well as their off-spring]. Fatherhood was never intended by GOD to be a passive role.

This male-gender responsibility does not negate the responsibility of the wife; but it is co-opted. In the instance of Adam and Eve, GOD must have known that Adam could have somehow prevented the Original SIN, but failed to do so.

TRADITION of OT-Males leadership is born out in the NT as well.

This is evidenced by Paul in 1st Cor. 14:34 & Ephesians 5:22 and more moderately; YET firmly in 1 Peter Chapter 3.

TODAY the Church retains this positioning, while at the same time recognizing the equality of the gender-differences. Still the Husband is to be the HEAD of the family.

GOD can’t have errored in this choice. AMEN!

Blessings,
Patrick
 
Agreed.

But it remains peculiar how some of our human character traits (such as shifting the blame on someone or something else) don’t seem to have changed that much since our first parents’ era. Particularly in today’s world there doesn’t appear to be much accountability required in a plethora of serious life issues involving transgressions.

Of course, in God’s perfect plan, once Adam had dragged all of his descendants into it, then Christ came in the fullness of time and raised man’s calling to a level much loftier than Adam and Eve’s original state in the garden before the Fall ; we are called to become sons and daughters of God.

Our Blessed Mother - the new Eve, is the supreme example of this calling’s fulfillment. In his book True Devotion to Mary , St. Louis de Montfort explains [paraphrase] that* “the Blessed Virgin Mary, with one sigh, can mobilize all the forces of Heaven.”*
Hi!

…I concur with you; thanks to our predispositions we are quick to blame and hardly capable of owning up to our faults and responsibilities (with the assist of Satan who uses such great venues as hollowood and its satellites); we have become a morally bankrupt world where psychobabble replaces personal accountability and responsibility (built-in excuses for every irresponsible and unrighteous [evil] act).

It is not surprising that one of the most important Counsesl that Jesus Gave us was:
20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(St. Matthew 5:20)
…we truly have to answer to a Higher Authority!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
This male-gender responsibility does not negate the responsibility of the wife; but it is co-opted. In the instance of Adam and Eve, GOD must have known that Adam could have somehow prevented the Original SIN, but failed to do so
I believe you’re right. Perhaps some nuances or meaning is lost to us because scripture was written in ancient language.
According to Scott Hahn the key word is Keep Gen.2:15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden of Eden, to till it and to keep it " He says that 'to keep ’ implies more than tending the garden and the plants. To Keep also means to guard. If Adam was told to guard the garden - he must have realised there was something to guard against- This is where he failed his commission from God.
And, also he was standing beside Eve when the serpent was tempting her and again he did nothing to guard the garden or to guard his bride. But rather, he took part in the sin
 
I believe you’re right. Perhaps some nuances or meaning is lost to us because scripture was written in ancient language.
According to Scott Hahn the key word is Keep Gen.2:15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the garden of Eden, to till it and to keep it " He says that 'to keep ’ implies more than tending the garden and the plants. To Keep also means to guard. If Adam was told to guard the garden - he must have realised there was something to guard against- This is where he failed his commission from God.
And, also he was standing beside Eve when the serpent was tempting her and again he did nothing to guard the garden or to guard his bride. But rather, he took part in the sin
Great insight,

Thanks and continued Blessings,

Patrick
 
“By one man sin entered into the world and death by sin so that death spread to all men because all sinned”

“God made man in his own image; male and female he made them.”

“So when Eve saw…she took it and ate it and gave to her husband with her and he ate.”

“For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.”

By which man did sin enter into the world, by Adam, Eve, AdamandEve…?
By ADAM co-opted by Eve
 
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