WHICH MASS DO YOU ATTEND?

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Who cares if the 1970 Mass is called the Novus Ordo Missae.

“Tridentine” is a misnomer too, yet it is not worth fighting over.
 
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Iohannes:
Letter by Msgr. Camille Perl Regarding Society of St. Pius X Masses

unavoce.org/articles/2003/perl-011803.htm
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With all due respect, can we trust all links or otherwise here on this thread “Liturgical Dancers”??? I honestly ask this, not a joke.:hmmm:
 
Marie said:
:amen: Although, Deo those who refuse to listen don’t care and it’s a sure bet they will continue to ignor the truth.Nice try anyway.
👍
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I agree.
 
Vatican List

The Vatican website is down right now, but it explains the SSPX is not in union with Rome. I think it is trust worthy. 😉
 
Johannes that letter does not change anything I posted.

While it says you may meet your Sunday obligation by attending, it also says it is not recommended. It confirms the masses are not licit. It is not recommended that one receive communion if they do attend.

Miserere is correct in saying that you can’t trust certain sites to tell you the truth about SSPX - especially if they are SSPX sites. When one claims to be loyal to the pope, then they must be loyal to what the Church teaches and the Church teaches they are in schism.

I think I have read every site on the web that has this topic over the past couple of years. I have composed a large file on the subject because it is one that keeps coming up on every Catholic forum.

You may have read some of the SSPX arguments that the Ecommunication was not valid and they will site Canon Laws and of course as with civil law, there is always some interpetation involved - but as in civil law the judge has the final say, in the Church so does the Pope. And one Canon supports this.
Can. 333 §1 By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only has power over the universal Church, but also has pre-eminent ordinary power over all particular Churches and their groupings. This reinforces and defends the proper, ordinary and immediate power which the Bishops have in the particular Churches entrusted to their care. A72 The Roman Pontiff, in fulfilling his office as supreme Pastor of the Church, is always joined in full communion with the other Bishops, and indeed with the whole Church. He has the right, however, to determine, according to the needs of the Church, whether this office is to be exercised in a personal or in a collegial manner. A73 There is neither appeal not recourse against a judgment or a decree of the Roman Pontiff
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forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?t=16201 gives a concise and trustworthy evaluation that one can trust because of its source regarding the history of the schism and the end result as I quoted in the Canon above.

Another is by a former SSPX member who is now a Canon Lawyer, Pete Vere in Envoy Magazine envoymagazine.com/backissues/4.6/lefebvre.htm

So it seems it is impossible to avoid this hot topic on this forum, mostly because of one or two supporters of SSPX. I am not a moderator on this forum but I am a traditionalist who attends the Indult Mass and I cannot sit idly by and allow the SSPX posters on this forum to mislead other Catholics and by their often hostility give the rest of us Traditionalists a reputation we don’t deserve.

I am sympathetic to the Catholics who desire a Tridentine Mass but I cannot and will not buy into the claims that they are faithful to the Pope on one hand and then preaching that the Roman Heirachy are heretics.
 
Miserere - you applaud and take your hat off to a post that newtrad wrote and then agree with me in the next post. Can I assume you have changed your mind on applauding Trad’s post? Otherwise I am confused as it might appear you are agreeing with both of us and that is not possible.
 
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deogratias:
Dear REdkim -

I am sure you had good intentions in your caution but, as I said at the beginning of this thread

Lets try not to get into a discussion about the SSPX, etc. here - plenty of other threads about that and I know Miseracordae knows they are in schism. What I don’t want is this to deteriorate into another “yes they are, no they are not” thread.

Thanks
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Oh I completely agree. I just didn’t want misericordie to go down the wrong path. 🙂
 
Redkim - I know that - and as you see, it has gotten out of control anyway - oh well. And maybe you have gotten him back on the right path - who knows.
 
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deogratias:
Johannes that letter does not change anything I posted.

While it says you may meet your Sunday obligation by attending, it also says it is not recommended. It confirms the masses are not licit. It is not recommended that one receive communion if they do attend.

Miserere is correct in saying that you can’t trust certain sites to tell you the truth about SSPX - especially if they are SSPX sites. When one claims to be loyal to the pope, then they must be loyal to what the Church teaches and the Church teaches they are in schism.

I think I have read every site on the web that has this topic over the past couple of years. I have composed a large file on the subject because it is one that keeps coming up on every Catholic forum.

You may have read some of the SSPX arguments that the Ecommunication was not valid and they will site Canon Laws and of course as with civil law, there is always some interpetation involved - but as in civil law the judge has the final say, in the Church so does the Pope. And one Canon supports this.

forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?t=16201 gives a concise and trustworthy evaluation that one can trust because of its source regarding the history of the schism and the end result as I quoted in the Canon above.

Another is by a former SSPX member who is now a Canon Lawyer, Pete Vere in Envoy Magazine envoymagazine.com/backissues/4.6/lefebvre.htm

So it seems it is impossible to avoid this hot topic on this forum, mostly because of one or two supporters of SSPX. I am not a moderator on this forum but I am a traditionalist who attends the Indult Mass and I cannot sit idly by and allow the SSPX posters on this forum to mislead other Catholics and by their often hostility give the rest of us Traditionalists a reputation we don’t deserve.

I am sympathetic to the Catholics who desire a Tridentine Mass but I cannot and will not buy into the claims that they are faithful to the Pope on one hand and then preaching that the Roman Heirachy are heretics.
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I did not say it changes anything.
 
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deogratias:
Redkim - I know that - and as you see, it has gotten out of control anyway - oh well. And maybe you have gotten him back on the right path - who knows.
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And I do apologize. I didn’t mean to steer the convo that way 😦
 
With all the persecution of the Traditional Latin Mass, I see nothing wrong with attending an SSPX chapel only if the intent is not schism.
 
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Iohannes:
With all the persecution of the Traditional Latin Mass, I see nothing wrong with attending an SSPX chapel only if the intent is not schism.
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THe personal intent, I believe, is irrelevant. If we attend a Mass regularly with a Church that we know is in schism, that is wrong.
 
I did not say it changes anything
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I did not say you did:p

I was just saying that the letter did not change anything I said. I didn’t want this thread to turn out this way but since it has, I invoke my soap box privileges.
 
With all the persecution of the Traditional Latin Mass, I see nothing wrong with attending an SSPX chapel only if the intent is not schism
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It is my contention that the SSPX movement only further results in persecution of the TLM making it most difficult for those of us who wish to attend Licit TLM.

I’m sorry you lost your TLM in Orange County - has your group written to the Holy See requesting it be returned? How far is it to drive to San Diego? There is a legit TLM there. I drive 30 minutes to a TLM - some people drove 90 miles to Tucson before that and I know people in Colorado Springs that drove to Denver before the TLM came to Colorado Springs.

It is not easy or convenient to go long distances but it is possible for some to do that.
 
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deogratias:
It is my contention that the SSPX movement only further results in persecution of the TLM making it most difficult for those of us who wish to attend Licit TLM.

I’m sorry you lost your TLM in Orange County - has your group written to the Holy See requesting it be returned? How far is it to drive to San Diego? There is a legit TLM there. I drive 30 minutes to a TLM - some people drove 90 miles to Tucson before that and I know people in Colorado Springs that drove to Denver before the TLM came to Colorado Springs.

It is not easy or convenient to go long distances but it is possible for some to do that.
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The Bishop is now ignoring us, diplomacy is not working.
1500+ petitions did not work either.
There is a legit TLM at the Mission San Juan Capristrano, but is too far for many people and overcrowded. On some sundays the crowds spills outside the Mission Chapel.

We have written to Cardinal Hoyos, but not sure what he is doing at the moment.

Being a legit indult group is not easy, we get attacks from the left and the right. We have neocons and liberals saying, shut up and get with the Novus Ordo and on the otherside we have people telling us that we are just being a puppet for Bishop Brown and betraying the Traditional Latin Mass. :rolleyes:
 
Cardinal Hoyos is scheduled to be one of the speakers at the Miles Jesu Path to Rome conference here in Mesa in November - hint, hint.
 
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Iohannes:
The Bishop is now ignoring us, diplomacy is not working.
Being a legit indult group is not easy, we get attacks from the left and the right. We have neocons and liberals saying, shut up and get with the Novus Ordo and on the otherside we have people telling us that we are just being a puppet for Bishop Brown and betraying the Traditional Latin Mass. :rolleyes:
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Just a thought Iohannes, but are your group of petitioners using such terminology as Neocons? Good Lord, no wonder your diplomacy is not working.Bad manners and name throwing tactic’s would not get anyone to listen to your groups petition. You may feel you are fighting a good fight but you are shooting yourself in the foot if that is the stance you present.

Your group must be extremely young to not know that such terms are not of God nor Godly behavior.

Other than that, I hope you can get your groups petitions answered. But you need to pray more and gripe in more useful ways.
Pax,
Marie
 
I rarely attend masses of any type, because generally speaking canonical non-catholics are barred from total participation in the mass and I have too much respect for myself to just participate anyhow and pretend to be Catholic.

Sitting in the pews during the whole mass would probably give the others there the idea that I was some kind of humongous sinner who had bodies buried under his floor boards at home or something, instead of just someone respecting the rules since its so unusual.
 
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