Which one ensures salvation under Jesus Christ?

[Kam_Fanaian]

Hello, my dear brothers and sisters

I am wondering, according to Catholicism, which one of:

1. Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord, or
2. Carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings

…ensures our salvation?

If it is both Faith and works, then what “degree” of my actions contribute to my salvation and resurrection on the Day of Judgement?

Kam

 

[fermat]

It’s both faith and works. As to what degree? You should do what Christ commands you to do to the best of your ability. Only G-d knows your heart and only He can tell you if you have done enough.

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Thank you, my friend fermat

So, how can I be assured eternal life at the Day of Judgement? Is there anything in the Sacred Scriptures that can tell me that I will have eternal life, given Jesus physically resurrected Himself for my eternal union with Him, and I have Faith in His Personage and Divinity due to this. How does my deeds and works work within this framework of physical resurrection?

God bless

Kam

 

[JRKH]

Talking about degrees and such is futile.

It is not about what we believe or what we do but what we ARE. Our faith must be our very being our source of life and sustenance. Our reason to get up in the morning and our last thought when we close our eyes at night. Every action during the day needs to be geared toward the building up of the Kingdom.

As to discipleship. Jesus said that the world will know us by our Love for each other. He also tells us that all of the Law and prophets boil down to the Law of Love…Love God above all and Love neighbor as ourselves.
We Follow Jesus when we follow this Love - A Love described by St Paul in 1 Cor 13:1-13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Jesus separates the saved from the unsaved by acts of mercy and not by those who cry “Lord Lord”…

If you wish to be saved, then commit. Not a ratio, to in degrees, but in toto, in whatever walk of life you find yourself in.

Peace
James

 

[Kam_Fanaian]

Every action during the day needs to be geared toward the building up of the Kingdom.

James

Hello James, do you know “anyone” on this earth today who’s EVERY action from the age of maturity has been geared towards building up the Kingdom, up until their death?

If so, how many do you know like that?

What if my every action is not like that? I am human, and I have many shortcomings. Since, my resurrection on Judgment Day is an “event”, I want to ensure that I am part of that event, but if my actions and deeds are part of it, I’m worried that me, as well as maybe a billion Christians on earth may miss out.

Does that make sense, at all?

I apologize for any forthcoming-ness, my friends

Kam

 

[JRKH]

Hello James, do you know “anyone” on this earth today who’s EVERY action from the age of maturity has been geared towards building up the Kingdom, up until their death?

If so, how many do you know like that?

First let me note that I never said “every action from the age of maturity…” Rather all of our actions as Christians need to be so geared. Different people come to this realization at different ages

As to who I know that fist the description…They are indeed few. One that comes immediately to mind is Mother Teresa of Calcutta. Her entire life became geared toward this - the relief of suffering and acts of mercy and charity.

What if my every action is not like that? I am human, and I have many shortcomings.

Yes indeed we all fall short. That is why we rely, not on ourselves and our own strength, but on God and His Strength and His mercy. If doing His will becomes our focus, our goal and our very life, then even if we fall short in some respects, we still will have become His disciples and can be assured of salvation. What we must not do is to try to quantify the effort as anything less than 110% of who we are and what we strive for.

Since, my resurrection on Judgment Day is an “event”, I want to ensure that I am part of that event, but if my actions and deeds are part of it, I’m worried that me, as well as maybe a billion Christians on earth may miss out.

This is why we have no time to waste. Begin today. Embrace God’s Love, and pray. Talk to Him about what He wants of you. Put into practice whatever charitable actions you are able. Smile, be upbeat, helpful, kind, modest, and most of all loving to all you encounter. Begin here and He will show you the way.

Jesus gave His all to us…We need to give our all to Him…
Not a portion, ratio or degree - but all of ourselves.
This is very difficult to do…and I am the least of his servants. Yet we must try.

Does that make sense, at all?

It does make sense.
I hope my reply does as well.

I apologize for any forthcoming-ness, my friends

No need to apologize…You are doing just fine.

Peace
James

 

[NotWorthy]

Hello, my dear brothers and sisters

I am wondering, according to Catholicism, which one of:

1. Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord, or
2. Carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings

…ensures our salvation?

If it is both Faith and works, then what “degree” of my actions contribute to my salvation and resurrection on the Day of Judgement?

Kam

The answer is:
3. When our Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord produces the acts of our carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings.

When we do this, our Love for our Lord will increase, which will increase our desire to carry out His Works… Which will result in a greater Love for Him… Which will increase our desire to carry out His Works… Well, you get the picture.

 

[stevekehl]

Thank you, my friend fermat

So, how can I be assured eternal life at the Day of Judgement? Is there anything in the Sacred Scriptures that can tell me that I will have eternal life, given Jesus physically resurrected Himself for my eternal union with Him, and I have Faith in His Personage and Divinity due to this. How does my deeds and works work within this framework of physical resurrection?

God bless

There are several passages in Scripture that speak about this.
Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So God will not leave us in times of trials.
Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
The presence of the Holy Spirit in every Christian is God’s proof of our status.
Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Christ’s sacrifice has paid for our sins for all time. But don’t be confused, we are not to continue in sin after accepting Christ.

 

[JohnAlexander]

To be assured of your salvation you must love God with all your heart, mind and soul. And love your neighbor as yourself.

There is no way to be assured that you are in fact doing so.

You are looking for a simple formula to follow but such a formula does not exist. The easiest thing to do is to just follow Church teaching. It’s an on going process until the day you die. Then when you die, throw yourself at the mercy of the court.

No one is worthy of salvation. It is a gift.

 

[thistle]

Thank you, my friend fermat

So, how can I be assured eternal life at the Day of Judgement? Is there anything in the Sacred Scriptures that can tell me that I will have eternal life, given Jesus physically resurrected Himself for my eternal union with Him, and I have Faith in His Personage and Divinity due to this. How does my deeds and works work within this framework of physical resurrection?

God bless

Kam

There is no advance assurance of salvation for anyone.

Those who will be saved will be those who are baptised, Catholic, and die in a state of grace.

 

[Actaeon]

Hello, my dear brothers and sisters

I am wondering, according to Catholicism, which one of:

1. Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord, or
2. Carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings

…ensures our salvation?

If it is both Faith and works, then what “degree” of my actions contribute to my salvation and resurrection on the Day of Judgement?

Kam

Niether, only the grace of God can assure us of salvation. Faith is the means by which that grace enters us, and the good works ordained by God are what make faith living.

Likewise, we can’t make sense out of asking to what degree faith and works need to be mixed… they are part and parcel, and and the same. It’s is like asking “does having lungs or the the fact that there is oxygen around us allow us to live in the sun?”

 

[NotWorthy]

There are several passages in Scripture that speak about this.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So God will not leave us in times of trials.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
The presence of the Holy Spirit in every Christian is God’s proof of our status.

Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Christ’s sacrifice has paid for our sins for all time. But don’t be confused, we are not to continue in sin after accepting Christ.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

And
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Your question about faith and works has bothered many people over the ages. Scripture says we are powerless if we try to earn our salvation, it is by grace through faith and not by works, so no one can boast about their “goodness” (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Our works should flow from a desire to show God’s love to the world. We can’t live out the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) without acting and serving our fellow humans. There are verses that say our works affect our reward in heaven, but we can’t earn our salvation.
God Bless you on your journey with Him.

So, how do any of these “assure our salvation”? The 1st Roman’s quote certainly doesn’t, for instance. It says that none of these can separate us from the Love of God. But notice that it never mentions “sin”, which causes us to separate ourselves from the love of God, as indicated several times in Scripture.

BTW, I don’t think anybody mentioned the claim that we can “earn our way” into heaven. Nor has the Catholic Church made the claim.

 

[Actaeon]

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So God will not leave us in times of trials.

God will not stop loving us, that is certain, but the presence of grace is not assured. If one loses faith, they cut off the channel through which grace enters and are lost, even if they are still loved by God.

BLUF: all people are loved by God and nothing can separate them from the fact that God loves them.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
The presence of the Holy Spirit in every Christian is God’s proof of our status.

This scripture says that the Holy Spirit being within us (through salvific grace) is our guaruntee of salvation… not that it is proof of our status.

Misinterpretations of this have led to all sorts of strange practices by people to prove that “they have the Holy Spirit in them” in order to show that they’re saved… when the verse says NOTHING whatsoever about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit being something observable or a lasting proof of salvation.

Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Christ’s sacrifice has paid for our sins for all time. But don’t be confused, we are not to continue in sin after accepting Christ.

Again, this does not say that Christ’s death requited all sins for all time, but rather that only as people are being sanctified is the offering for sin being given… in other words, only in sanctification is sin forgiven and that is through the perfected work of Christ on the the cross.

And sanctification occurs as a process beginning at conversion and ending with purgation.

Your question about faith and works has bothered many people over the ages. Scripture says we are powerless if we try to earn our salvation, it is by grace through faith and not by works, so no one can boast about their “goodness” (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Our works should flow from a desire to show God’s love to the world. We can’t live out the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) without acting and serving our fellow humans. There are verses that say our works affect our reward in heaven, but we can’t earn our salvation.
God Bless you on your journey with Him.

slow down, no one says that works can earn our way into heaven… but that doesn’t change the fact that works are an essentially element of living faith! You even cropped out a verse that didn’t convey that, because Ephesians 2:8-10 says that while we are saved by grace through faith and not by works OF THE LAW, that we are equipped to do the good works which were ORDAINED BY CHRIST.

All we have to do is to read ONE MORE VERSE in Ephesians to find out that Paul recognizes that the works of Christ are an essential part of Christian life and the plan of salvation!

 

[fisherman_carl]

Hello, my dear brothers and sisters

I am wondering, according to Catholicism, which one of:

1. Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord, or
2. Carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings

…ensures our salvation?

If it is both Faith and works, then what “degree” of my actions contribute to my salvation and resurrection on the Day of Judgement?

Kam

Salvation is a free gift that is by God’s grace through the merits of Jesus Christ’s death and Resurrection.

Faith is the basic ingredient necessary for salvation. Examples include the thief on the cross. Jesus is constantly approving people of faith in the scriptures and John 3:16 describes faith as necessary for salvation.

Every new Christian receives grace not through their own works but as a free gift. Grace can not be earned. This grace moves us to faith and to works without violating our free will. A new Christian is justified by faith and not by works (Romans 4). And this justification occurs through faith and baptism - “you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified” (1 Cor 6:11).

Now, God’s grace bears fruit in us like a tree. If we are good soil we will produce fruit (Lk 8:15). If not then we are cut down and thrown into the fire (Mt 7:19). James says that faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Thus, James describes the condition of faith as being alive or dead and the determination of its condition as being works. James also describes faith as not static or alone but as being completed by works (James 2:22). That means our faith can be formed by our works and thus justification is a process.

So faith is the instrument of our justification, but not a one time static or dead faith, but a faith that perseveres in good works. It is an alive faith that Gal 5:6 talks about - “faith that is working in love”. When you have that kind of faith you are justified.

“even the demons believe - and tremble”

• James 2:19

“Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.”

• Mt 3:8

 

[fisherman_carl]

Thank you, my friend fermat

So, how can I be assured eternal life at the Day of Judgement? Is there anything in the Sacred Scriptures that can tell me that I will have eternal life, given Jesus physically resurrected Himself for my eternal union with Him, and I have Faith in His Personage and Divinity due to this. How does my deeds and works work within this framework of physical resurrection?

God bless

Kam

The assurance that we have is that if we persevere in faith working in love then God will save us on the last day because God is not man that he should not make good on his promises. God can’t contradict himself. If he promises Eternal Life for those who remain in him then he will make good on those promises.

So the assurances that we have come from God’s promises to us. And God’s promises are true. The only thing that can separate us from remaining in God is our own free will. He does not force us to remain in him. We can choose to separate ourselves from him through choosing a life of sin or apostasy (Rom 11:22).

That is a basic difference between Catholicism and some other Protestant groups. But, if God forces us to choose him continually then we have lost our free will. Catholicism maintains that God gives us free will and thus we can choose to walk away from grace (Acts 7:51).

The physical culmination of those assurances from God is found in the Sacraments. For instance, I can know that my sins have been forgiven and justification restored (if lost through serious sin) after I have made a good confession at the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It is the devil who wants us to doubt that God forgives us. Rather, we believe that it is Christ’s blood shed on the cross for our sins that is applied at the Sacrament to us and we have forgiveness through his name (1 Jn 1:9, 2:12).

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Hello, my dear brothers and sisters …

I am wondering, according to Catholicism, which one of:

1. Faith and recognition of Jesus Christ as our Lord, or
2. Carrying out His works, as in, our duties to carry forward and practice His teachings

…ensures our salvation?

If it is both Faith and works, then what “degree” of my actions contribute to my salvation and resurrection on the Day of Judgement?

Kam

Hi Kam,

• First of all – – Faith is a singular work; but it is a work.
• The answer must be both :yup: for the first implies the second:

John 6:28 Then they said to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, **That **we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. [Note: his name is also his power / shem ].

1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

• To have this conversation, we need to know what faith is, ,and isn’t just belief in the sense of knowledge: click “>”

…they really aren’t different words

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Roman 4:4 Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned to be of grace [for gift & thanks], but of debt [for work & pay].
Roman 4:5 But to him that works not [to indebt], but [through friendship with God and his Son] believes in him that justifies the ungodly; That belief is counted for righteousness.

• To enter into life, and have God and us live in unison – we are told:

Matth 19:17 And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is God: but if thou will to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matth 19:18 The man asked him [Jesus], Which?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter,** that he may abide with you for ever**

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
John 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you.
John 15:15 Henceforth I do not call you servants; for the servant knows not what his lord does: but I have called you friends

1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, but does not his commandments, is a liar, and the Truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whosoever keeps his Word, in him is the very love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

• Consider: It it not the commands given after sin, but those before which are faithful commands & faithful works: :hammering:

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Cori 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and un-circumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God is something!

Roman 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works [serving God food & a contract of circumcision], he has something to glory in; but not before God.
Roman 4:3 For what said the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [belief IN God’s goodness & cause ] was counted unto him for righteousness.

• One may fail in works, for not all works are necessary; but one must not fail in other works – for they are needful.

1John 3:8 He that commits sin is the devil’s; for the devil sinned from the beginning [murder]. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
…
1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not deadly, he shall ask, and he will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that anyone shall pray for it.
1John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: but there is a sin not unto death.

• Faith, then, really is joining the side of Jesus. Joining the side of Jesus is keeping his commandments. And THEN Perfection is giving up everything to be with him.

Matth 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what am I missing?
Matth 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

1Timo 6:13 I give you a charge within the sight of God …
1Timo 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ …
1Timo 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who gives us all things, richly, to enjoy;
1Timo 6:18 That they do well, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate

• But in the end, this is what we see, where well doing men shall be ---- Try this saying, and it is true – you can’t take it with you…

Revel 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

:yeah_me:

Only those who do all his commandments will be found in heaven; Today we do one, tomorrow we become stronger and virtuous, and before the last day we will have completed our course.

First we believe in him and he gives us living growth, then we hope to be perfected and we experience his power, then at last we love him to the end and live with him forever.