Which one of me gets saved?

[setarcos]

If everything that makes me who I am can be changed through injury, age, or disease, who gets saved? Who is the salvation for? The person I was before the change in my character who was a believer or the person I became after the change who is not? Also I came across a curious result of a necessary operation to relieve a person from the seizers they were suffering. Their brains two hemispheres were split along the corpus callosum effectively giving the person two different personalities depending on which isolated hemisphere was asked questions. It was found the one hemisphere believed in God and salvation, the other was an atheist. So who is it that gets saved if only one part of the same person believes?

 

[Wesrock]

It is not for us to judge which individuals get saved. God will judge, and will take into account our abilities and defects when doing so.

 

[davidv]

There is only one you. It does not matter how many physical, mental or emotional changes occur.

 

[STT]

If everything that makes me who I am can be changed through injury, age, or disease, who gets saved? Who is the salvation for? The person I was before the change in my character who was a believer or the person I became after the change who is not? Also I came across a curious result of a necessary operation to relieve a person from the seizers they were suffering. Their brains two hemispheres were split along the corpus callosum effectively giving the person two different personalities depending on which isolated hemisphere was asked questions. It was found the one hemisphere believed in God and salvation, the other was an atheist. So who is it that gets saved if only one part of the same person believes?

That is an interesting question. We witness the fact that our personality changes by time so what will be save should be you independent of your personality and memory.

 

[Della]

God knows our human weaknesses and limitations. We aren’t saved just because we believe, but by cooperating with the grace of God throughout our lives. Just because we become mentally disabled doesn’t mean we become sinners or that God doesn’t know who we are. He knows far better than we do who we are and what we will be when we are with him in heaven. We have no need to fear, as St. Paul wrote in Romans 8:38-39:

38For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[pianistclare]

There is only one you, only one soul.
The state of that soul determines your destination.

Cultivate the good.

 

[Bookcat]

There is only one you. It does not matter how many physical, mental or emotional changes occur.

 

[GEddie]

Like your embodiment, which remains the same even as you go from the childhood body, to the adolescent body, to the grown and then the ageing body; your overall being likewise is **one.

ICXC NIKA**

 

[joeybaggz]

Like your embodiment, which remains the same even as you go from the childhood body, to the adolescent body, to the grown and then the ageing body; your overall being likewise is **one.

ICXC NIKA**

+3

 

[dshix]

If everything that makes me who I am can be changed through injury, age, or disease, who gets saved? Who is the salvation for? The person I was before the change in my character who was a believer or the person I became after the change who is not? Also I came across a curious result of a necessary operation to relieve a person from the seizers they were suffering. Their brains two hemispheres were split along the corpus callosum effectively giving the person two different personalities depending on which isolated hemisphere was asked questions. It was found the one hemisphere believed in God and salvation, the other was an atheist. So who is it that gets saved if only one part of the same person believes?

You have made a remarkably good argument for the existence of a spiritual soul.

There is only one soul within you, and you will be judged based on that soul’s status at the time of your death.

 

[setarcos]

It is not for us to judge which individuals get saved. God will judge, and will take into account our abilities and defects when doing so.

I think you’ve missed the mystery my question is about. Who in the one body is the individual which can lay claim to the soul? The operation effectively split the one individual into two competing persons. In so much as a person can be defined. What is left of me if my personhood is split and each resulting separate person is distinguishable from the original whole person? If my character dictates my attitude and acceptance toward Jesus and his offered salvation then injury, disease, or aging alters my character over time to the point that who we used to be is not recognizable by others in who we’ve become what is the difference between this and having a disbelieving character to begin with? Or equally what if injury caused my original character to become a believer? Do we arbitrarily default to saying the real me is the one that accepted Christ regardless of the past or future characters? Do we say the atheist is saved because he accepted Christ in the fox hole in spite of his/her attitude outside of imminent danger? Yes God will judge, but who in the one body is God judging? If we all have these multiple potential persons within us and we have no control over which one we will become or are now then do we play any part in our own salvation?

 

[Bookcat]

I think you’ve missed the mystery my question is about. Who in the one body is the individual which can lay claim to the soul?

There is no contest -there is only one person. And can be only one person.

The person is not the mind or the soul or the personality.

The person is an embodied soul (the body and soul) - and is one.

Not more than one.

A mental disorder is simply that. A mental disorder.

One is always only one person.

Tis simple the nature of the person.

 

[setarcos]

There is only one you. It does not matter how many physical, mental or emotional changes occur.

That is the question though. Where is the thing that defines the one me to be found? We are one body, one soul, one mind. Yet I am not the same body I was as a child and the body I will have in the future will not be the same body I have now. I will have the same genetics but this alone is not enough to define me since the same genetics can give rise to different personalities. Am I to be found in the sum of my experiences, memories, intelligence, and actions over time? All these things change too. If I am to be found somewhere within them then I change from the one person before to the one I am now as well. Is there a core essence that caries through from the child to the man to the old man? Strip away my experiences, my memories, my inherent mental or physical abilities and will you find the thing that is me? Through injury, age, disease, is there a thing which stays the same always and can be said to define who I am? And if we strip away all these other things to find me what is left? My soul? Would I even be self-aware since self-awareness requires the previously mentioned animating principles? Which leads back to the question of whom/what is being saved? If my soul depends on these other changing factors to animate it toward the good but these factors themselves are subject to change how can we say you will be saved if you do this when the this you do depends on the you you are at any one moment which may change? But your soul which is your core essence doesn’t change even though these other things do you say…but then how can my soul be judged if the thing to be judged about ones soul is the actions ones soul takes through these changing animating principles?

 

[setarcos]

God knows our human weaknesses and limitations. We aren’t saved just because we believe, but by cooperating with the grace of God throughout our lives. Just because we become mentally disabled doesn’t mean we become sinners or that God doesn’t know who we are. He knows far better than we do who we are and what we will be when we are with him in heaven. We have no need to fear, as St. Paul wrote in Romans 8:38-39:

Cooperation is an act of the self which doesn’t answer the question, which self? And how is it that you define a mentally disabled person? Each personality is fully functional and capable of making sane coherent decisions on its own.
Because I was a lovable, gregarious child but have become, through the experience of a hard life, a self centered old curmudgeon would you say I have a mental disease?
God knows who we will be alright but I want to know if who we will be will be the same as who we are now. If not then the person who gets to heaven didn’t need saving to get there and the person who needs saving to get to heaven will never get to heaven.

 

[Bookcat]

That is the question though. Where is the thing that defines the one me to be found?

You are your body and soul - or rather “an embodied soul”.

(one is not ones soul residing on a body…one is ones soul and ones body).

Are you sitting down right now?

You will find* you *there in your chair.

That is you.

If you fall asleep - that is still you there in the chair.

If you go mad - that is still* you* there in the chair.

Now if someone comes and runs you through with a sword…ending your life…well then you are dead.

Your soul is parted from your body.

The Soul goes to God and from there is purified (if need be - as is often the case) and enters heaven…or it takes its choice of hell.

If you had a mental disorder - that is now no longer.

At the Resurrection of the dead - if your soul has been with God - then you will receive again your body - now risen and glorified! (And there will be a “new heaven and new earth”. )

You yourself.

Fully yourself now in Christ the Lord.

The same person who was born, lived, was a child, was a grown man, suffered this or that disordered, and died. Now in a new state - a glorified state.

Always and only one person.

 

[ColdComfort]

An oak tree is a developed acorn. If my opinions, temperament and so on change I’m the same person. Easy enough to prove: I remember the type of person I was before and compare to what I am know. “when I was a child…”

 

[setarcos]

There is no contest -there is only one person. And can be only one person.

The person is not the mind or the soul or the personality.

The person is an embodied soul (the body and soul) - and is one.

Not more than one.

A mental disorder is simply that. A mental disorder.

One is always only one person.

Tis simple the nature of the person.

You’ve defined personhood but you haven’t addressed the question posed. If these things can change or do change “naturally” over time what remains of the person before in the person after the change? If what remains is not capable of acting upon its own movement toward the good like some ill defined essence in a jar then what is to be judged?
The surgery created to perfectly self regulating, sane, and coherent personalities which could make decisions on their own volition. If you define a mental disorder as a mind which is dysfunctional or disturbed in some manner you certainly couldn’t apply it in this case.

 

[Bookcat]

You’ve defined personhood but you haven’t addressed the question posed. If these things can change or do change “naturally” over time what remains of the person before in the person after the change?

They remain the same person. No matter what the change.

I am the same person who played with legos as a boy. I have simply grown up.

Changes yes take place - and can “change a person” but the person is still the “same person”.

And of course my choices can yes change me quite profoundly - from death to true life. Or sadly form life to death…

I am still the same person not a different one.

 

[Bookcat]

If what remains is not capable of acting upon its own movement toward the good like some ill defined essence in a jar then what is to be judged?
.

God will judge the person accordingly.

If I am thus deprived of my freedom - losing in a real way my ability to commit a mortal sin - then well I do not depart that state. I am judged only for what I am responsible.

If I am “living in Christ” and then something “happens to me” - where I then in that disordered state -no longer capable of changing my spiritual state - due to loss of freedom etc - well remain “living in Christ” - and upon leaving this world will “wake up” as it were in that state.

 

[Bookcat]

The surgery created to perfectly self regulating, sane, and coherent personalities which could make decisions on their own volition. If you define a mental disorder as a mind which is dysfunctional or disturbed in some manner you certainly couldn’t apply it in this case.

That* is a disorder* and one cannot describe it as anything but a disorder.

Again God will judge accordingly as noted above.