You remember a child and believe it to be you. You don’t think as a child in your remembrance though do you? You can think as an adult what a child might or might not think as a child but you cannot will yourself to become a childish thinker and remain the same person. Even if we have a perfect memory of everything we did as a child we still cannot become mentally again the child as it was when the actions it took gave rise to those memories in the adult. An old philosophical demonstration goes like this…A man buys a new boat. Over time one board and another gets repaired and replaced until one day the man realizes he’s replaced every single board the boat was made of. Does the man still have the same boat? If not at what point did the boat become another boat? What of the old boat caries over? What of a house? A house is built on and repaired over the years until the house has become a mansion. What of the house remains? If the boat is our body and the mansion our mind are they yet the same as they were? Are we yet the same person as we were? One can remember a childhood friend as well. Yet to the mind there is no discernment between remembering who we were as a child and who our friend was as a child in so much as we’ve experience of each. In this case the memories are stories we tell ourselves about who we were then as opposed to who we are now. Never the less we treat them as distinct characters.An oak tree is a developed acorn. If my opinions, temperament and so on change I’m the same person. Easy enough to prove: I remember the type of person I was before and compare to what I am know. “when I was a child…”
Persons are persons.You remember a child and believe it to be you. You don’t think as a child in your remembrance though do you? You can think as an adult what a child might or might not think as a child but you cannot will yourself to become a childish thinker and remain the same person. Even if we have a perfect memory of everything we did as a child we still cannot become mentally again the child as it was when the actions it took gave rise to those memories in the adult. An old philosophical demonstration goes like this…A man buys a new boat…
The examples you use are artifacts not natural substances. And we don’t treat them as distinct characters. No-one does. Do you confuse your childhood with someone else’s? George Washington’s maybe? That fact "I " remember “my” childhood, including all the internal stuff only “I” could know, proves the point.You remember a child and believe it to be you. You don’t think as a child in your remembrance though do you? You can think as an adult what a child might or might not think as a child but you cannot will yourself to become a childish thinker and remain the same person. Even if we have a perfect memory of everything we did as a child we still cannot become mentally again the child as it was when the actions it took gave rise to those memories in the adult. An old philosophical demonstration goes like this…A man buys a new boat. Over time one board and another gets repaired and replaced until one day the man realizes he’s replaced every single board the boat was made of. Does the man still have the same boat? If not at what point did the boat become another boat? What of the old boat caries over? What of a house? A house is built on and repaired over the years until the house has become a mansion. What of the house remains? If the boat is our body and the mansion our mind are they yet the same as they were? Are we yet the same person as we were? One can remember a childhood friend as well. Yet to the mind there is no discernment between remembering who we were as a child and who our friend was as a child in so much as we’ve experience of each. In this case the memories are stories we tell ourselves about who we were then as opposed to who we are now. Never the less we treat them as distinct characters.
By the way, it is thanks to the mercy of God that it is the moment of death. How else could repentance and forgiveness be possible? To treat a serious matter frivolously we all have one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.The examples you use are artifacts not natural substances. And we don’t treat them as distinct characters. No-one does. Do you confuse your childhood with someone else’s? George Washington’s maybe? That fact "I " remember “my” childhood, including all the internal stuff only “I” could know, proves the point.
It’s easy. A three legged cat is still a cat. If I lose a leg I’m still myself. If my beliefs change how am I a different person? I’m the same person whose has changed his mind. If fact, the word ‘change’ only makes sense if the underlying person is the same. A dead cat however is no longer a cat.
Edit: If the point is about judgement then it is the state of our soul at death. Catholics pray that we may persevere in God’s grace until that time.
You can, to at least an extent, remember how you thought and felt as a child. You might remember, in a way that almost constitutes a regression, being distraught that you lost your favourite toy at the age of five, even though a similar loss to you as an adult may cause no such reaction.You remember a child and believe it to be you. You don’t think as a child in your remembrance though do you? You can think as an adult what a child might or might not think as a child but you cannot will yourself to become a childish thinker and remain the same person. Even if we have a perfect memory of everything we did as a child we still cannot become mentally again the child as it was when the actions it took gave rise to those memories in the adult. An old philosophical demonstration goes like this…A man buys a new boat. Over time one board and another gets repaired and replaced until one day the man realizes he’s replaced every single board the boat was made of. Does the man still have the same boat? If not at what point did the boat become another boat? What of the old boat caries over? What of a house? A house is built on and repaired over the years until the house has become a mansion. What of the house remains? If the boat is our body and the mansion our mind are they yet the same as they were? Are we yet the same person as we were? One can remember a childhood friend as well. Yet to the mind there is no discernment between remembering who we were as a child and who our friend was as a child in so much as we’ve experience of each. In this case the memories are stories we tell ourselves about who we were then as opposed to who we are now. Never the less we treat them as distinct characters.
In analogy peoples bodies totally replace themselves roughly every 7 years with a few nervous system exceptions. The boat was an example of a concept by comparison. But you knew this.Persons are persons.
Boats are boats.
One should not be confused with the other.
I am the same* person* - though I have changed much over the years - that I was in my Mothers womb.
No matter how much physically or mentally I have changed.
There is not some 1 year old with my name and middle aged me.
I am that 1 year old - grown much older.
I am the same person - though I have changed much over the years - that I was in my Mothers womb.In analogy peoples bodies totally replace themselves roughly every 7 years with a few nervous system exceptions. The boat was an example of a concept by comparison. But you knew this…
My dead toe nails remain my dead toe nail clippings…
My dead toe nails remain my dead toe nail clippings…
Actually I am. Who else would I be?You cannot be the same person you were in the womb…simple scientific analysis would show you this…what you mean to say is that some essence which can be used to distinguish the you that is you from some other you carries over continuously throughout a bodies development over time.
Yes there is. Me. I am me. I am the same person - no matter what changes may occur. I am not “another person” I am and can only be one person. I may make different choices and all sorts of changes -but it is still just one “I”. One embodied soul.There is no connection between the you of the past and the you of the future except that which you believe continuously connects your lineage together as the same entity at all times.
Again the soul is spirit not subject to such analysis.This could be via genetic analysis if you would have samples from your youth to compare for instance or through mental coherence such as memories of your childhood for instance.
Such ideas or theories or studies etc of empirical science are by nature limited. And subject to constant revision. Partial (if true).These things themselves are not the factors though which carries the you through to the future you. Memories being retroactive are not kept wholly within the brain. Science has shown them to actually be recreations made up by the brain according to certain algorithms. Hence memories are notorious for being inexact replicas of reality. This could be, by the way, a reality which may have not even occurred. As such, memories cannot be the carrier of the essence of you through to the future, they are merely artifacts created by this essence as it travels through time.
Again. We are embodied souls. Not merely biology.As for genetics, take for instance the case of identical twins. Each has exactly the same genetics yet who would fail to see that there are two different and distinct individual persons in the separate bodies.
Again I am an embodied soul. Not to be reduced to matter …to genes etc.So genetics cannot be the carrier of the unchangeable you which carries over to the future.
Answered.Your conclusions indicate that because a body which “you” self-recognized as you in the past no longer exists in the past so that that same self-recognized body can exist in the present to be recognized.
God sees all what we call past, present and future - all at once - freshly coming forth. God is outside of time.Would you argue then that you no longer exist as a child in the past? Would God being eternally present in past, present, future not see you existing in the past so that you could exist in the present?
Nope - now should be becoming clearer.This becomes rapidly absurd.
The soul is spirit. and no there are not “different souls” that are me. One only.There must remain though some idea of you which ties the child with the man through time. This should be an unchanging self-aware, essence. Otherwise a change in this essence would change the applicable salvation or damnation of the soul. Unless you would believe that a soul can be damned or saved based on the status of a different soul.
I am judged in the end on how I leave this earth…am I in life? (true life) or have I chosen death.We were created for a physical world though. To be judged is to be judged as humans. Humans, depending on your definition, are a trifecta of body, mind, and soul. We cannot be judged apart from our physical natures and remain the human we were born as which is judged.
It is in the end how we leave this earth as I noted.How is it then that a person can be judged if what damned or saved us changes through time? If we are saved in one time but are not the same in another time, how then is the one judgment carried over to the other?
Mental illness -is mental illness. Not something else.Where is the self-aware, self-directing, unchanging me that is judged based on my actions? If science can isolate different personalities with different potentials in a healthy single brain which one am I and how do I know? Even the participants in these experiments are surprised at their own given answers to posed tests.
You’ve simply restated your statement? Statements are not proofs. While statements may not be wrong they do not prove themselves simply by existing. You should have reason for your belief and you probably do. So if you would care to share your reasons for believing your statements I would enjoy them being shared with me.I am the same person - though I have changed much over the years - that I was in my Mothers womb.
No matter how much physically or mentally I have changed.
There is not some 1 year old with my name and then another middle aged me.
I am that 1 year old - grown much older.
I am an embodied soul.
Just no question here.
Yes restated with emphasis.You’ve simply restated your statement? Statements are not proofs. .
It is not only about “feelings”. They are not the surest measure here.Simply because we feel like we are the same person does not prove we are.
Such would be an mistaken idea.Incidentally it has also been shown that while we feel as if we are making free will choices there are so many subconscious factors effecting our choices that any free will involved has been reduced to almost an after thought…apparently.