Which Pentential Rite(s) is your parish using during Lent?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MissRose73
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My parish uses the invocation/Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy OR the Confiteor/Lord have Mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy all year. I’ve never heard the “Have Mercy on us O Lord” used (in any parish). I’ve also never heard the kyrie in Greek here.

My old parish (where I was last night), as far as I’ve heard, exclusively uses the invocation/LHM, CHM, LHM. However, last night was the first time I’ve heard the Confiteor used there, I guess for Lent. Then the cantor sang the kyrie with the congregation (in Greek)…I don’t think that’s allowed, but it’s something they do during every Advent and Lent.
 
anp1215 said:
My parish uses the invocation/Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy OR the Confiteor/Lord have Mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy all year. I’ve never heard the “Have Mercy on us O Lord” used (in any parish). I’ve also never heard the kyrie in Greek here.

My old parish (where I was last night), as far as I’ve heard, exclusively uses the invocation/LHM, CHM, LHM. However, last night was the first time I’ve heard the Confiteor used there, I guess for Lent. Then the cantor sang the kyrie with the congregation (in Greek)…I don’t think that’s allowed, but it’s something they do during every Advent and Lent.
Click to expand...
The Kyrie always follows the Confiteor.
 
aemcpa said:
Yes, but I believe the Kyrie is also a stand-alone option in the Novus Ordo.
Click to expand...
No. The Kyrie is never said by itself. The Kyrie can be built in to the Penitential Act itself (Form C), but it never stands alone.
 
anp1215 said:
I know, I’m saying that I don’t think it’s allowed for the cantor/music leader to sing it with the congregation.
Click to expand...
😑

This is quite common. Cantor/people, priest/people, deacon/people, all choir, choir/people, these are all done and allowed.
 
YoungTradCath said:
😑

This is quite common. Cantor/people, priest/people, deacon/people, all choir, choir/people, these are all done and allowed.
Click to expand...
At least they only do it during Advent/Lent. The rest of the year it’s done the proper way.
 
At the 11:00 am Mass that I prefer to attend, the choir is so spectacular that I think that`s why the choice of a sung Kyrie is done instead of the spoken Confiteor. (Apoligising in advance for my spelling) I love both, but the way they sing it is deeply moving for me and much appreciated.
 
grasscutter said:
At the 11:00 am Mass that I prefer to attend, the choir is so spectacular that I think that`s why the choice of a sung Kyrie is done instead of the spoken Confiteor. (Apoligising in advance for my spelling) I love both, but the way they sing it is deeply moving for me and much appreciated.
Click to expand...
As I was informed above, you are not supposed to do the Kyrie, sung or recited, in English or Greek, without first reciting the Confiteor.
 
aemcpa said:
As I was informed above, you are not supposed to do the Kyrie, sung or recited, in English or Greek, without first reciting the Confiteor.
Click to expand...
Oh, I didn’t read all of the posts, thank you for the information. I will research it further.
 
EphelDuath said:
Perhaps somebody should post the rubrics about when it is mandatory or appropriate to use any of the four formulas?
Click to expand...
Here is what the General Instructions to the Roman Missal says:
  1. After this [the greeting], the Priest calls upon the whole community to take part in the Penitential Act, which, after a brief pause for silence, it does by means of a formula of general confession. The rite concludes with the Priest’s absolution, which, however, lacks the efficacy of the Sacrament of Penance.

    From time to time on Sundays, especially in Easter Time, instead of the customary Penitential Act, the blessing and sprinkling of water may take place as a reminder of Baptism.
The Kyrie, Eleison
  1. After the Penitential Act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the Penitential Act. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is usually executed by everyone, that is to say, with the people and the choir or cantor taking part in it.

    Each acclamation is usually pronounced twice, though it is not to be excluded that it be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a “trope” precedes each acclamation.
So far as I know, it does not specify the various formulae, which must be contained elsewhere, I’m thinking in the Roman Missal itself.
 
The Penitential Act formulae are as follows:

A: Confiteor followed by Kyrie

B: Have mercy on us, Lord
For we have sinned against you.
Show us, O Lord, your mercy.
And grant us your salvation.
followed by Kyrie

C: You were sent to heal the contrite (or a similar invocation): Lord, have mercy.
Lord, have mercy.
You came to call sinners (or a similar invocation): Christ, have mercy.
Christ, have mercy.
You plead for us at the right hand of the Father (or a similar invocation): Lord, have mercy.
Lord, have mercy.

Notice that the Kyrie is always sung or said, but in Penitential Act C, it is simply built in to the Penitential Act itself. In forms A and B, it is sung or said after the Penitential Act.

If Penitential Act A or B is used, the Kyrie (always done after the Act in this case) is ordinarily six-fold. However, there are many nine-fold Kyrie settings as well, which in the OF are usually reckoned to be more solemn than the six-fold settings. For example, basically all the great polyphonic settings are nine-fold. In the Graduale Romanum, I think all the Gregorian settings are nine-fold as well.
 
YoungTradCath said:
The Penitential Act formulae are as follows:

A: Confiteor followed by Kyrie

B: Have mercy on us, Lord
For we have sinned against you.
Show us, O Lord, your mercy.
And grant us your salvation.
followed by Kyrie

C: You were sent to heal the contrite (or a similar invocation): Lord, have mercy.
Lord, have mercy.
You came to call sinners (or a similar invocation): Christ, have mercy.
Christ, have mercy.
You plead for us at the right hand of the Father (or a similar invocation): Lord, have mercy.
Lord, have mercy.

Notice that the Kyrie is always sung or said, but in Penitential Act C, it is simply built in to the Penitential Act itself. In forms A and B, it is sung or said after the Penitential Act.

If Penitential Act A or B is used, the Kyrie (always done after the Act in this case) is ordinarily six-fold. However, there are many nine-fold Kyrie settings as well, which in the OF are usually reckoned to be more solemn than the six-fold settings. For example, basically all the great polyphonic settings are nine-fold. In the Graduale Romanum, I think all the Gregorian settings are nine-fold as well.
Click to expand...
What was your source? The Roman Missal? Are other formulas allowed?
 
JamesCaruso said:
What was your source? The Roman Missal? Are other formulas allowed?
Click to expand...
My source is a little MR translation pamphlet here, coming from the Missal, yes. No, others are not allowed. Asperges can replace the P.A. sometimes.
 
Why the question ?

It is for the priest to choose the penitential rite in Lent or any other time .

It is for the rest of the people at the Eucharist to enter into the priest’s choice with the right spirit .
 
aemcpa said:
There is nothing improper about the Kyrie being sung as you described.
Click to expand...
The GIRM calls for a response format of the kyrie…the music minister sings the kyrie along with the choir and entire congregation, there is no response. The man sings “You were sent to heal the contrite, you came to call sinners, you plead for us at the right hand of the father (choir and people join in) kyrie eleison, kyrie eleison, kyrie eleison, kyrie e-, kyrie eleison.”

Then repeat for christe eleison and kyrie eleison.

It’s hard to explain, I have a video if you want me to send it to you, I don’t want to post it here.

I personally think it sounds quite beautiful, but I still think it’s technically improper.
 
anp1215 said:
The GIRM calls for a response format of the kyrie…the music minister sings the kyrie along with the choir and entire congregation, there is no response. The man sings “You were sent to heal the contrite, you came to call sinners, you plead for us at the right hand of the father (choir and people join in) kyrie eleison, kyrie eleison, kyrie eleison, kyrie e-, kyrie eleison.”

Then repeat for christe eleison and kyrie eleison.

It’s hard to explain, I have a video if you want me to send it to you, I don’t want to post it here.

I personally think it sounds quite beautiful, but I still think it’s technically improper.
Click to expand...
If you want to send it to me via private message or e-mail, I’ll take a look at it. It sounds like it’s something other than what I thought you were talking about originally.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top