Which Protestants regard Catholics as non-Christian?

[OHCAC]

OHCAC ~ not to “butt in” but I think that the experience of ex-Mormons may be different than ex-Protestants converting to other faiths (whether Catholic or something else.) Many ex-Mormons feel deceived by Mormonism. That’s not always true of persons converting from various Protestant faiths. Mormons also have a history of both changing doctrine and covering up/suppressing dissent. That’s not the general situation with the various Protestant faiths. So conversion from Mormonism and conversion from some Protestant faith is not necessarily comparable.

Please, you’re not butting in. Yes, I would agree.

Bottom line ~ conversions are not necessarily comparable, but just because a Mormon came to the conclusion that Mormonism was a sham does not necessarily mean they cannot objectively state what they were told when they were a member of the Mormon faith. And, since Mormons are known for suppressing things that don’t fit their current view of doctrine, an active Mormon is not always the best source for objective information about the faith. That may be a sad fact, but it is one of their own making.

Bingo - well said and my experience as well. And that’s why I’m interested in hearing ex-LDS opinions and experiences and comparing it to what ‘true’ believers say. Because this situation has been highlighted so many times by so many ex-LDS, and it’s the same basic experience which lends to it a lot of credibility, it leads me at times to get both takes on a question. Not that I always doubt what the LDS says but that they are often so stuck in a LDS view of things it becomes very difficult to have a conversation.

 

[OHCAC]

I haven’t posted in awhile but figured this was a topic that I knew something about.
I was a practicing Catholic for 43 years, a practicing Baptist for the last 6, and have recently left the Baptist church I was attending.
I too did my share of searching before settling on this particular church. What prompted me to keep moving from church to church was that even though I had lost faith in the CC, I couldn’t seem to stop defending it. I have never seen such ignorance and bigotry in my life. One church member even had the nerve to tell me it was a good thing that I made it to their church and gotten away from “those” devil worshiping Catholics. I was ready to deck this guy! This same guy always liked to make comments that the reason the pope wore a Miter was to hide his horns!
It was then I moved to my current church, a quiet little Baptist church not far from our home. My wife was raised Baptist so I figured that if we could no longer be Catholics, we’d give my wife’s faith a try.
I will say this… Baptists are the absolute worst… and not just at this church.
I’ve had more than one run-in with members of my congregation who have made stupid statements about the Catholic Church, a faith that they really know nothing about. It seemed like any time I wanted to do something in this church I wasn’t allowed because my Catholic teachings weren’t accepted.
I couldn’t become a member until I was baptized… why, because Catholics don’t practice a “biblical” baptism so my Catholic Baptism didn’t count. Everything in this church is all about the bible, yet they won’t recognize that the CC gave the world the bible. I tried hard to keep an open mind with them because my wife had really settled in to this church but I really lost it after a comment that someone made in our Sunday School class. The person in question asked our teacher for some assistance in witnessing to a friend because she was one of those “unsaved” Catholics. I had had enough! I launched into a 20 minute tirade that in no way could be considered “Christian” and I walked out.
So… here I am in between churches again… NO, don’t tell me to return to the CC. The church and I have too many differences for me to ever go back. Just pray for me to find a home somewhere.
Pax

Pax and prayers for you coming up!

 

[OHCAC]

I don’t see any difference in principle between Catholic attacks on Mormonism or SDAism, & Calvinist attacks on Catholicism. There are reasons for both sets of attacks on both sets of those attacked. It’s a bit late in the day for Catholics to claim victim status - they have a long long long history of attacking those groups of whose idea they disapprove. Not that they are alone in this: many religious groups have a history of attacking others. Why ? Because human nature is nasty & and brutish, IMO. Religious beastliness is just one form of human beastliness; take it away, there would be some other to take its place: if people didn’t kill or hate in the name of some god or other,they would probably hate or kill in the name of country (as has happened for ages), or of sex, oil, money, hair-colour, or genetic make-up.​

Agreed It’s rather scary. Hence the need for lots of prayer, and an understanding of original sin

 

[DD2007]

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

 

[MelanieAnne]

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

Well, you’re wrong about Catholics not being Christian. Lucky for you we don’t make the same sort of statement about you. But it is ignorant for anyone to call the original Christians “not Christian”. Maybe you should find out more about Christianity before going off labeling people? Opinion is supposed to be the RESULT of thought, not a substitute for it.

Pray for Wisdom.

 

[dianaiad]

Trading messages on a forum is not the best way to communicate so perhaps we’re talking past each other. You said LDS are “under siege” and perhaps you just meant you. My experience is that many LDS I’ve met and talked with feel they’re persecuted and their faith as a whole is persecuted.

And they would be right about that.

My contention is in the great scheme of who’s been persecuted in history it sure isn’t the LDS. I’m sorry about the things you underwent but compared to Christians and Jews being jailed and killed we’re definitely comparing apples to oranges. More importantly for me, if you enter most conversations with the mindset of “I’m under siege - these people are out to get me” - there will never be a real discussion about serious faith questions.

I
Then I guess there will never be a ‘serious discussion’ with you.

I don’t ask for much here. I am aware that the attacks upon, and persecution of, Mormons may not reach the sheer numbers and horror of the Holocaust, or the Albegensians, very few things do. Thank God. Nothing we have experienced can rise to that level–but unfortunatly, I think that some of the biggest reasons they did not isn’t because of the kindness of out enemies. It’s because there weren’t all that many of us, because our neighbors were, though bloody minded, not organized enough…and because we were armed and we fought back. It was, after all, the American West.

However, very bad stuff DID happen, and still happens, and frankly, I don’t really appreciate being told that because I am not, in your view, a Christian, that what we experienced, what I experienced, doesn’t matter, or didn’t happen, or wasn’t wrong.

Tell you what, though. I don’t know how familiar you are with Mormon history. Go look up Haun’s Mill, and Buchanan’s Folly,the Extermination Order and Reed Smoot, and the problems the FLDS are still having with Texas…and then take an honest look at the double standard in forums like this one. Then come back and tell me that Mormons have never been persecuted.

Dead is dead, y’know. Rape is rape. Official government discrimination is official government discrimination. Persecution is persecution, whether you agree with the beliefs involved or not.

And I would agree that it’s not wise to look at an ex-member of a faith as a primary source of information - you should probably start with the scripture, documents and history of the faith before you talk with anyone. That was not my intent when I asked for ex-LDS to weigh in with their thoughts. We do agree they can be accurate - in fact I’ve often found them to be more factually and historically accurate than LDS I’ve talked with since, as you’ve stated in an oblique way, current members of a faith cannot be objective. The issue I’ve had Dianaiad is that I’ve read something in LDS scripture or history and when I asked current LDS members about it I got differing versions of how it should be understood. I’ve run that same thing by ex-LDS and often gotten the same answer as I did from LDS. So that leaves one from outside the faith wondering how to interpret things at times.

Go to the official websites. Take the member’s words for it, for it is, after all, what THEY think. If their opinions don’t march perfectly with official sources that you see, then make your mind up. However, since they are the Mormons, they are the experts on what they, the Mormons at hand, believe. The only thing an ex can tell you is what he used to believe (if he remembers it correctly and that’s problematic) or what he has come to believe he used to believe—or, that incredibly insulting phrase, what they really believe. The believers of any faith who tell you what they believe are the experts. Telling them what they really believe is an instant discussion ender.

 

[dianaiad]

And I’ve found many true believers to simply be wrong - factually, historically, theologically, etc. True believers, nice people, not trying to deceive me, just didn’t know what they were talking about.

I see. So you knew what they really believed, did you?

I think I’ve spoken to this above. It’s obvious you feel strongly about this and I understand why - I don’t agree with some of your logic but do with a lot of it. From my experience, if you have a good grounding in the faith you’re discussing, you can gain a pretty good understanding of whether the person you’re talking with, ex or not, knows what they’re talking about.

If you are talking TO the believer and debating his beliefs, then it isn’t what you think his church teaches that matters. It’s what HE thinks that does. Telling him what he really believes and debating that is an exercise in talking to yourself, it seems to me.

If you are attempting to talk to someone else about a ‘third party’ belief, say, you the Catholic are debating a Baptist about LDS beliefs, then, well…I wouldn’t do that, myself. But if for some reason I got sucked into it, say…defending the Catholic ideas of dulia, hyperdulia and latria in terms of Marian doctrine, then I would be very certain that I had official church websites open…or at the very least, a priest on the other end of the phone line.

But yes, I feel rather strongly about this.

 

[dianaiad]

Trading messages on a forum is not the best way to communicate so perhaps we’re talking past each other. You said LDS are “under siege” and perhaps you just meant you. My experience is that many LDS I’ve met and talked with feel they’re persecuted and their faith as a whole is persecuted. My contention is in the great scheme of who’s been persecuted in history it sure isn’t the LDS. I’m sorry about the things you underwent but compared to Christians and Jews being jailed and killed we’re definitely comparing apples to oranges. More importantly for me, if you enter most conversations with the mindset of “I’m under siege - these people are out to get me” - there will never be a real discussion about serious faith questions.

And I would agree that it’s not wise to look at an ex-member of a faith as a primary source of information - you should probably start with the scripture, documents and history of the faith before you talk with anyone. That was not my intent when I asked for ex-LDS to weigh in with their thoughts. We do agree they can be accurate - in fact I’ve often found them to be more factually and historically accurate than LDS I’ve talked with since, as you’ve stated in an oblique way, current members of a faith cannot be objective. The issue I’ve had Dianaiad is that I’ve read something in LDS scripture or history and when I asked current LDS members about it I got differing versions of how it should be understood. I’ve run that same thing by ex-LDS and often gotten the same answer as I did from LDS. So that leaves one from outside the faith wondering how to interpret things at times.

I spent longer writing a reply to this post than I have to any other in the history of my time here on CAF.

…then, about a minute after finally posting that reply, I deleted it. I’m sorry, but your cavalier dismissal of everything Mormons (and this particular Mormon, specifically) have gone through as if it meant nothing…it really got to me.

The only way I can see your post as LESS than the most unconsciously bigoted thing I’ve read in many a year is to ask you…are you aware of the history of Mormons in this nation? and for you to be abysmally ignorant of it. Because if you knew about stuff like Haun’s Mill, and the difficulty Reed Smoot had in taking his legally elected Senate seat, or the whole sale imprisonment of men and the resulting hardship it caused their wives, or the fact that the majority of the early Mormon pioneers lacked toes, or fingers, or noses, or whole limbs because of the frostbite they suffered during the winter they were forced out of Missourri and Nauvoo, or the raid on the FLDS compound last year, or the Extermination Order, or…??? If you know of these things and can honestly say that they do not rise to the level of persecution suffered by Christians, then…you are quite right. there will never be a real discussion about serious faith issues.

Real discussions require a mutual acceptance of equality; if not of faith, then of simple humanity, and you don’t think Mormons are human. You can’t, if you honestly don’t think that one human death that is suffered because of his religion (one you disapprove of) doesn’t ‘rise to the level’ of the death of a human suffered because of a religion you like.

Dead is dead. Persecution is persecution, and the young Christian who was given to the lions is no more dead than that was young Sardius Smith, the nine year old who was dragged out from underneath the anvil at Haun’s Mill and shot in the head…because 'nits make lice; if he had lived he would have become a Mormon."

The rocks thrown at me didn’t hurt any less because it was the Christian throwing and me receiving, rather than the other way around, and y’know what? The FLDS children were just as terrorized, confused and traumatized by their removal from their parents as any “Christian” child was who was taken and his parents imprisoned.

(throwing up hands) I’m never going to get this thing written properly.

I’m just going to send it.

 

[yermanyonda]

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

Could you elaborate as to why you think that way?

Is that the opinion of your Church or your own personal opinion?

 

[OHCAC]

The only way I can see your post as LESS than the most unconsciously bigoted thing I’ve read in many a year is to ask you…are you aware of the history of Mormons in this nation? and for you to be abysmally ignorant of it. Because if you knew about stuff like Haun’s Mill, and the difficulty Reed Smoot had in taking his legally elected Senate seat, or the whole sale imprisonment of men and the resulting hardship it caused their wives, or the fact that the majority of the early Mormon pioneers lacked toes, or fingers, or noses, or whole limbs because of the frostbite they suffered during the winter they were forced out of Missourri and Nauvoo, or the raid on the FLDS compound last year, or the Extermination Order, or…??? If you know of these things and can honestly say that they do not rise to the level of persecution suffered by Christians, then…you are quite right. there will never be a real discussion about serious faith issues.

My point is that most Catholics, Christians and Jews I know don’t go around under the impression that they are under siege and persecuted. And Many LDS I know and have known do. And apparently because they do there is often very little real discussion because most of what the other party says is taken as an attack - just as you’re doing with my words now. Many of your responses to me are telling me what I should believe and think and now labeling me and calling me names. We can’t talk seriously, for example, about lack of hard evidence for the BoM if my merely mentioning a question about it is taken as an attack. You and I haven’t broached that but I’ve had that happen with many LDS.

I’m not in any way whatsoever diminishing any persecution or deaths of anybody of any faiths - those are your insinuations, not my words. I am aware of a lot of the Mormon history you cite and am not condoning in any way what happened to those people or in any way applauding the people who did the deeds. I do not equate the recent incidents in TX with your church as they practice polygamy and you don’t and my understanding is that your churches are not affiliated with each other as, for example, the western and eastern Catholic churches are. I could be quite wrong on that. If so, please help me to understand the connection.

When you, out of the blue, say “we’re a people under siege” and my Jewish friends families suffered through the Holocaust, and my Irish/Italian/etc Catholic friends families suffered through tremendous persecution as new immigrants to America and they DONT feel they’re under siege - then, in my mind, the two don’t compare. Using your logic most anybody of any faith could enter any discussion saying “I’m under siege”. And when they do, from my experience, little meaningful discussion happens afterwords.

But they don’t. My experience in talking with many people of many faiths is that they do not think they’re under siege and that thought wouldn’t enter their minds and their daily experiences are about the same as yours. They can find mean books written about their faith and mean posters on blogs and cite mean things that people have said/done to them and point to deaths of their people in the past too. But they don’t - many LDS do. That’s my point, I don’t know how to make it more clear. And I can ask you why you do that but you’d probably take that as an attack to - so we’re at a stalemate. You can continue to belittle me and feel I’m attacking you if you must by I’m not.

Real discussions require a mutual acceptance of equality; if not of faith, then of simple humanity, and you don’t think Mormons are human. You can’t, if you honestly don’t think that one human death that is suffered because of his religion (one you disapprove of) doesn’t ‘rise to the level’ of the death of a human suffered because of a religion you like.

You keep defining the terms of the discussion and then finding me lacking on each point. Then there’s nothing to discuss. You tell me I think Mormons aren’t human because I fall short of your definition. I don’t agree with your premise and have not done what you’re accusing me of. I don’t think once in the few posts we’re traded have you asked me “why do you think/believe that?” You just jump into labeling me and telling me what I think. And that kind of behavior is one of my points - I’ve seen it so often with LDS. I am not attacking you, I am strongly questioning that you’re under siege and am positing the thought that because you think that way it’s very difficult to have an open discussion with you - as I think has been shown here.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Could you elaborate as to why you think that way?

Is that the opinion of your Church or your own personal opinion?

DD2007 is probably a “drive by” poster so there may never be a response.

But if DD2007 thinks the Catholics are not Christian, then he/she better get rid of any copy of the Bible that might be lying around since it’s liable to be a corrupting influence! After all, it was compiled by those evil un-Christian Catholics! It’s pagan!

So Catholics aren’t Christian? Well, the original Bible was a Catholic work, so throw your Bible out right away before YOU become non-Christian too!

You can’t have it both ways!

 

[OHCAC]

I see. So you knew what they really believed, did you?

I knew what they believed based on what they told me they believed - and only that.

If you are talking TO the believer and debating his beliefs, then it isn’t what you think his church teaches that matters. It’s what HE thinks that does. Telling him what he really believes and debating that is an exercise in talking to yourself, it seems to me.

As far as the discussion at hand with that person is concerned, I completely agree. I think the point I was making is that in some discussions I’ve had the person truly believed something (at least said they did - that’s all I can go on - I don’t tell them what they believe, I don’t read minds) that did not agree with church teaching. In that case, they may truly believe it but related to their churches view, they were ‘wrong’, for lack of a better way to say it. Is that what you mean or am I missing your point?

If you are attempting to talk to someone else about a ‘third party’ belief, say, you the Catholic are debating a Baptist about LDS beliefs, then, well…I wouldn’t do that, myself. But if for some reason I got sucked into it, say…defending the Catholic ideas of dulia, hyperdulia and latria in terms of Marian doctrine, then I would be very certain that I had official church websites open…or at the very least, a priest on the other end of the phone line. But yes, I feel rather strongly about this.

I think I would avoid that debate too. When I talk with someone about their faith - LDS for example - I do my best to use the history and scriptures of the LDS faith - and not cite from third party sources interpreting the scriptures for me - unless those sources are LDS.

 

[cthulhubryan]

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

How can this be? Can I say that some Calvinists are Christian but most are not?

If you are referring to the Kerry/Pelosi types well then they use their religion as window dressing and nothing more. Since the Catholic Church was all there was for most of the history of Christendom, if it is wrong then you need to believe in apostasy. Please see www.lds.org for directions to your local ward chapel.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I haven’t posted in awhile but figured this was a topic that I knew something about.
I was a practicing Catholic for 43 years, a practicing Baptist for the last 6, and have recently left the Baptist church I was attending.
I too did my share of searching before settling on this particular church. What prompted me to keep moving from church to church was that even though I had lost faith in the CC, I couldn’t seem to stop defending it. I have never seen such ignorance and bigotry in my life. One church member even had the nerve to tell me it was a good thing that I made it to their church and gotten away from “those” devil worshiping Catholics. I was ready to deck this guy! This same guy always liked to make comments that the reason the pope wore a Miter was to hide his horns!
It was then I moved to my current church, a quiet little Baptist church not far from our home. My wife was raised Baptist so I figured that if we could no longer be Catholics, we’d give my wife’s faith a try.
I will say this… Baptists are the absolute worst… and not just at this church.
I’ve had more than one run-in with members of my congregation who have made stupid statements about the Catholic Church, a faith that they really know nothing about. It seemed like any time I wanted to do something in this church I wasn’t allowed because my Catholic teachings weren’t accepted.
I couldn’t become a member until I was baptized… why, because Catholics don’t practice a “biblical” baptism so my Catholic Baptism didn’t count. Everything in this church is all about the bible, yet they won’t recognize that the CC gave the world the bible. I tried hard to keep an open mind with them because my wife had really settled in to this church but I really lost it after a comment that someone made in our Sunday School class. The person in question asked our teacher for some assistance in witnessing to a friend because she was one of those “unsaved” Catholics. I had had enough! I launched into a 20 minute tirade that in no way could be considered “Christian” and I walked out.
So… here I am in between churches again… NO, don’t tell me to return to the CC. The church and I have too many differences for me to ever go back. Just pray for me to find a home somewhere.
Pax

i dont know for long you will resist the calling. here is my prayer. Lord, i beg you, open this child of yours eyes and ears and mouth that he may hear, see and speak your Truth wherever he should be. in the Name of your Holy Son, hear my prayer. Thanks be to God. Amen

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I would like to say that many Seventh Day Adventists do believe that Catholics are Christian; they tend to like Catholics as people, but dislike the hierarchy and structure of the Church, especially the role of the papacy, and disagree on many theological issues.

SDAs consider “Catholics as people” as being okay human beings ripe for proselytizing. If Catholics aren’t amenable to being proselytized . . . well, that is a whole different matter.

 

[MelanieAnne]

How can this be? Can I say that some Calvinists are Christian but most are not?

If you are referring to the Kerry/Pelosi types well then they use their religion as window dressing and nothing more. Since the Catholic Church was all there was for most of the history of Christendom, if it is wrong then you need to believe in apostasy. Please see www.lds.org for directions to your local ward chapel.

Hi Bryan,

Actually the Kerry/Pelosi types, with their public support of abortion, have self-excommunicated themselves. If they persist in receiving the Eucharist it is a public scandal and they do so in a state of mortal sin at great risk to their immortal souls. It has been suggested (although I am not aware if this has ever been confirmed) that Nancy Pelosi was advised to not receive the Eucharist during her most recent visit with Pope Benedict XVI.

I guess supporting abortion is more important than risking eternal damnation, at least for some people.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

The ones I know believe that Saturday is the sabbath and is the day on which you are supposed to worship, but they have never mentioned that those who worship on Sunday are worshipping the “Beast.” I have heard a few on forums and such talk about the Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon though, which gets me riled up.

Actually, what it is, is that if you (knowing that Saturday is the true Sabbath) choose to worship on Sunday, you will receive the mark of the beast.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I don’t see any difference in principle between Catholic attacks on Mormonism or SDAism, & Calvinist attacks on Catholicism.​

I’ve never heard a Catholic attack on SDAism. This is a great disappointment to SDAs, because their theology demands that they be persecuted by Catholics. I suppose, I would have to say that the kindest thing a Catholic could do for an SDA would be to persecute him. It just ruins their day completely when you explain to SDAs that the Church doesn’t even think about them, let alone plan on persecuting them.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

The same is true of Calvinists.

 

[dianaiad]

My point is that most Catholics, Christians and Jews I know don’t go around under the impression that they are under siege and persecuted. And Many LDS I know and have known do.

Odd. I have seen quite a few Catholics right here who complain (quite rightly) about the sort of anti-Catholic stuff found out there, and as for Jews? They are very aware of their history, and the current state of antisemitism. If there was ever a people under siege, it is the Jews, and they are all quite aware of it.

Mormons feel ‘under siege and persecuted’ because they are. I know that this is an uncomfortable thing to think, especially if you are not LDS and don’t agree with LDS doctrine ,but that doesn’t change the facts. Today that persecution is at the low simmer level… words, assumptions and bigotry/discrimination, mostly, just as it is for other Christians, such as Catholics—and for Jews. Nobody is shooting at Jews in America right now. Nobody is hanging Catholics; but the antisemitism and anti-Catholicism is alive and well. It would seem to me that anybody wishing to have a ‘serious discussion’ of matters of faith would, if not acknowledge it, at least not deny it, as you have just done.

Are Mormons “under siege?” Well, let’s see. Just now, within the last thirty seconds, I opened a new window to CAF non-Catholic religions. I accessed a thread entitled “Mormonism; there are many ways of proving it wrong.” There on the side bar are three books being advertised for sale:

Inside Mormonism: What Mormons Really Believe
When Mormons Call
Beginning Apologetics Vol. 2 (which claims to present the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, and how to ‘answer’ them. )

Going back to the thread list, we have the following threads on Mormonism, in addition to the one mentioned above:

"Why are people mormon considering it is obviously fabricated?
“LDS and JWs”

On THAT page, the following books are advertised:

Answering Islam
Inside Mormonism: What Mormons Really Believe
When Mormons Call

…and this is a moderated forum, where people are generally more polite.

This sub-forum is specifically for the discussion of non-Catholic religions. We are, in effect, invited guests to a debate—and for a Mormon to come in here and see the above----well, I don’t think "under siege’ is inaccurate. At best, it’s just plain rude.

Are we MORE persecuted than Catholics or Jews are? In here…you betcha. In CARM? same/same. Depending upon where we all are, I suppose. In the world? Well, as to Catholics, same/same. As to Jews? No contest, and I hope no other people is ever as persecuted as the Jews have been, and still are.

However, nobody has raided a Catholic convent lately and removed everybody because their “religion is bad for the kids”, have they?

And apparently because they do there is often very little real discussion because most of what the other party says is taken as an attack - just as you’re doing with my words now. Many of your responses to me are telling me what I should believe and think and now labeling me and calling me names.

I haven’t said a thing about what you should believe or think. I am asking you to wake up and look around you. I am asking you to put yourself in my shoes. Read that first paragraph, for instance, and substitute “Catholic” for the word “Mormon.” and see if you don’t get offended by the very clear assumption that a: Catholics are not Christian and thus don’t deserve the respect accorded to Christians—because of course what the Christians can describe as persecution when it is directed at them, Catholics can’t, because they aren’t Christian. As if only Christians can BE persecuted, and since Catholics aren’t Christian, then, well, who cares?

That is the impression you left with me, sir.

We can’t talk seriously, for example, about lack of hard evidence for the BoM if my merely mentioning a question about it is taken as an attack. You and I haven’t broached that but I’ve had that happen with many LDS.

Hold it. I have never, EVER, taken a statement about the 'lack of evidence against the Book of Mormon" as an attack, when it is made simply, with the intent merely to discuss evidence. I only take attacks as attacks.
OHCAC;5585945:

I’m not in any way whatsoever diminishing any persecution or deaths of anybody of any faiths - those are your insinuations, not my words.

They were specifically your words. You wrote: “'m sorry about the things you underwent but compared to Christians and Jews being jailed and killed we’re definitely comparing apples to oranges.”

In the above sentence you covered the subject rather completely. First, you very clearly separated Mormons from Christians…if you thought we were Christians, you wouldn’t have compared our experiences to “Christians” in a derogatory way. “Apples and Oranges,” you said. Since Mormons have been persecuted every inch as much as any other Christian (dead, as I have mentioned before, is dead no matter what religion the corpse held), then the obvious conclusion is that somehow the word “persecution” has to be tied to ‘approved group.’ That is, only the people whose religion you like can be persecuted. Everybody else is just whining.

(continued on next post)