Which religion?

[Tsuwano]

When he commands what is evil, it is an absolute duty to resist him - and it is an enormous sin to obey him, if the evil is a great one.​

What people don’t seem to understand is that the Pope’s authority is not value-free, and his commands are not valid merely by being commands. His authority is given him so that he may build up the Church, not that he may tear it down: as the coronation rite made very clear. When he sins against the faith, he cannot now be judged; but he can be resisted, and should be resisted. If he were to attempt to abolish a Rite, he should be resisted. There are many things he cannot do without sinning - his power is very ample, but it is not boundless. The Church is not a dictatorship, nor is it tolerable that it should allowed to be one. So he cannot do anything whatever, but only some things. This has all been hammered out by the theologians and approved authors of the past (several of them Doctors or Saints).

I’m not even Traditional, particularly - but that much I do know. Venerable Robert Grosseteste, Bishop of Lincoln (d.1253), opposed corrupt action by Innocent IV, and resisted him, and refused to obey him. It is the bishop, who was renowned for his holiness even in his lifetime, who is reckoned as a holy man: not the Pope he opposed. Disobedience, even to a Pope, can be necessary if God is not to be disobeyed. “We must obey God, rather than men”, said Peter & John (Acts 5.29) Had they obeyed the command of men, there would have no more preaching of Christ.

I don’t know why your words are in response to my post. My post responded to someone who claimed the SSPX submitted to the authority of the Church and the Holy Father. My post stated that, though this is what the SSPX would have you believe, it is, in fact, not true.
Your post is something completely different. You are talking about whether it is always moral or if it has always been “traditional” to submit to the authority of the Pope. That is a different question entirely and has little to do with what I wrote. Your post would be relevant if the SSPX claimed they are not in obedience to the Pope and were attempting to justify their refusal to obey. In fact, however, they do claim to be obedient to the Pope. They are not attempting to justify disobedience as righteous or moral disobedience, but rather disguising disobedience as obedience in the hope of avoiding condemnation from the Church. Your arguments may have merit, but I fail to see how they respond to what I wrote.

 

[Javl]

The mass was not authorized to be done by anybody until the indult of JPII and even then they needed a bishop’s permission that was hardly ever granted. For 15 years the trad mass was an illegal ceremony in the RCC

It most ceratainly was not, for I attended the Latin mass during that time and it was not in violation of any papal or canonical rules. The Novus Ordo mass was required, but the traditional Latin Mass was never deleted.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[TheQuestioner]

But is there is a huge contradiction between the statement that “the right to religious freedom has its foundation in the very dignity of the human person as this dignity is known through the revealed word of God and by reason itself” and that “no man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true”

Of course, and “no man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true” is not professed by the Church. What the Church said is that no man was to be forced to convert, and should they choose not to they should have the right not to be harassed and pressured to do so. It goes against human dignitiy to force someone to convert to a religion so that their lives would be safe. If we don’t like it when it is done to us, why should it be ok for us to do it to others?

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day

para 841

One can’t possibly reconcile this with the views of pre-conciliar Roman Catholics.

Why not? It says that anyone could be saved, and although it does not delve into ignorance it certainly does imply it. The Church had never ever confessed to know who would or wouldn’t go to heaven on an individual basis. This quote just reaffirms that belief that anyone can get to heaven, but not because they are non-Catholic, but in spite of being non-Catholic, which has always been professed.

 

[happilycatholic]

A priest who allowed altar girls to serve in 1965 was (IIRC) excommunicated - he certainly got into boiling hot water. Then along comes JP2, and hey presto, a great sin becomes perfectly allowable. All of a sudden, the unthinkable and unspeakable becomes both eminently speakable and anything but unthinkable. So all the JohanniPauline huffing and puffing about the impossibility of ordaining women, can hardly be treated as impossible. One day, even if it’s far off, women are going to be ordained as priests, & condoms are going to be tolerable. And Econe will be recognised as a “sister-Church”. And Abp. Lefebvre will be canonised, on the basis of an “immemorial cultus”. ​

Yeah, cause everybody knows if the current views are wrong we shouldn’t correct them because the Gottles of the world may use these inconsistencies to point to error rather than the correction of error.

Sorry Gottle, even in all your wisdom you FAIL.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

A priest who allowed altar girls to serve in 1965 was (IIRC) excommunicated - he certainly got into boiling hot water. Then along comes JP2, and hey presto, a great sin becomes perfectly allowable. All of a sudden, the unthinkable and unspeakable becomes both eminently speakable and anything but unthinkable. So all the JohanniPauline huffing and puffing about the impossibility of ordaining women, can hardly be treated as impossible. One day, even if it’s far off, women are going to be ordained as priests, & condoms are going to be tolerable. And Econe will be recognised as a “sister-Church”. And Abp. Lefebvre will be canonised, on the basis of an “immemorial cultus”. ​

It is not a sin to have girls as altar people. Stop behaving negatively toward the Catholic church. All your posts are put downs or presumptuous ideals.