Which religions and denominations forbid Freemason membership, and why?

[tomberg]

This is actually a really fascinating issue and might deserve a thread of its own for discussion. Thanks for posting.

 

[Techno2000]

That is actually a really interesting question because the Hebrew Texts simply refer to him as satan which simply means “accuser” and in other places he is referred to as Ha-Satan. the article Ha is simply meant to refer to a Title bestowed upon a being so it tends to mean “the adversary.” Again not a proper name but a title. The most common English synonym for “Satan” is “Devil”, which descends from Middle English devel, from Old English dēofol, that in turn represents an early Germanic borrowing of Latin diabolus (also the source of “diabolical”). This in turn was borrowed from Greek diabolos “slanderer”, from diaballein “to slander”: dia- “across, through” + ballein “to hurl”.[30] In the New Testament, “Satan” occurs more than 30 times in passages alongside Diabolos (Greek for “the devil”), referring to the same person or thing as Satan.

So what we really have are synonyms for the same being who is never actually referred to be any proper name in the Bible itself. His actions went on to be attributed as his proper name but this is actually never identified. The closest thing we have for a proper name for the devil or satan is from the Book and Enoch which names him as SatanaEl. The text describes SatanaEl as being the prince of the Watchers who was cast out of heaven and an evil spirit who knew the difference between what was “righteous” and “sinful”. I personally think this is the closest we have for an actual proper name for the devil. I makes quite a bit of sense as you will undoubtedly notice that Angelic names always end with EL. Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Azrael, etc. All the high Angels have this ending on their name, so I think the Book of Enoch comes closest to giving us what the Devils real proper name was.

Lucifer is the king of the Spiritual Babylon of this world, and Jesus is the king of the Spiritual Jerusalem of this world…Virtue or Vice.

 

[fasolislithuan]

Lucifer was the name of the highest ranking angel that fell from Heaven.Satan is the title God gave to this fallen angel, and he is a demon along with the rest of the fallen angels.

I think that’s not correct. The term “lucifer” is used in latin Bible (Vulgata) several times. But not a single time to refer to Satan or a fallen angel. In Isaiah 14:12 seeking to describe an arrogant king of Babylon. In Apocalypsis 22:16 is referring to Jesus.

So the ascription of this term to Satan, the Dragon, the serpent is another false myth based in biblical misinterpration (especially from King James Only movement)

 

[tomberg]

I think that’s not correct. The term “lucifer” is used in latin Bible (Vulgata) several times. But not a single time to refer to Satan or a fallen angel. In Isaiah 14:12 seeking to describe an arrogant king of Babylon. In Apocalipsis 22:16 is referring to Jesus.

So the ascription of this term to Satan, the Dragon, the serpent is another false myth based in biblical misinterpration (especially from King James Only movement)

Yeah I tried pointing that out but Techno seems pretty oblivious to actual facts and would rather read The King James Bible which is not Catholic and adopt Evangelical Christian beliefs as Catholic and actually Blaspheme against both Jesus and John the Baptist who are both referred to as lucifer in the Latin Vulgate. but hey, if she wants to blaspheme Jesus, that is on her.

 

[tomberg]

I tell you what, I trust what’s in this… themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm book to anything you have written about Lucifer,

Your cite is not official Catholic teaching and is not the basis of sound Theology either. Marian Devotion sites continue all kinds of extraneous information that are not official Church teaching or historically sound.

Is the Latin Vulgate incorrect in referring to Jesus as lucifer? How about when it refers to John the Baptist of lucifer? I guess your Marian devotion is a much more reliable source than the Latin Vulgate, which is the authorative text for Catholicism, but hey you have a Marian Devotion site, I guess that trumps the Bible.

 

[Techno2000]

Yeah I tried pointing that out but Techno seems pretty oblivious to actual facts and would rather read The King James Bible which is not Catholic and adopt Evangelical Christian beliefs as Catholic and actually Blaspheme against both Jesus and John the Baptist who are both referred to as lucifer in the Latin Vulgate. but hey, if she wants to blaspheme Jesus, that is on her.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Isaiah 14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

 

[tomberg]

Douay-Rheims Bible
Isaiah 14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

So you actually have not read a thing I have posted. That quote from Isaiah is referring to a Babylonian King, and lucifer is not his proper name, it is the state from which the King has fallen. Lucifer is also used to refer to Jesus and John the Baptist. Some people have sought to indentify this passage with the Devil, but no where else in the entire Bible is Satan referred to as lucifer. In fact Jesus and John the Baptist are both referred to as lucifer. Tell me how this is possible if Lucifer is the name of Satan?

PLEASE ANSWER - HOW CAN JESUS BE CALLED LUCIFER IF THIS IS THE NAME OF SATAN?

 

[Techno2000]

So you actually have not read a thing I have posted. That quote from Isaiah is referring to a Babylonian King, and lucifer is not his proper name, it is the state from which the King has fallen. Lucifer is also used to refer to Jesus and John the Baptist. Some people have sought to indentify this passage with the Devil, but no where else in the entire Bible is Satan referred to as lucifer. In fact Jesus and John the Baptist are both referred to as lucifer. Tell me how this is possible if Lucifer is the name of Satan?

PLEASE ANSWER - HOW CAN JESUS BE CALLED LUCIFER IF THIS IS THE NAME OF SATAN?

The Babylonian King is metaphor of Satan can you show me a mere mortal King named Lucifer in a History book.Also I would like to see the part about Jesus and John the Baptist too thank you.

 

[tomberg]

The Babylonian King is metaphor of Satan can you show me a mere mortal King named Lucifer a History book.Also I would like to see the part about Jesus and John the Baptist too thank you.

Lucifer is not a proper name, it is a latin term which means “morning star.” There is no mortal king or anyone with the proper name of Lucifer, it is a station or title. Passages which refer to Jesus as lucifer in latin or “morning star” in English are:
2 Peter 1:19
REvelations 2:28
Revelations 22:16

For some reason my copy and paste function is not working, but all of these passages refer to Jesus as “Morning Star” Latin for Lucifer.

 

[Techno2000]

Lucifer is not a proper name, it is a latin term which means “morning star.” There is no mortal king or anyone with the proper name of Lucifer, it is a station or title. Passages which refer to Jesus as lucifer in latin or “morning star” in English are:
2 Peter 1:19
REvelations 2:28
Revelations 22:16

For some reason my copy and paste function is not working, but all of these passages refer to Jesus as “Morning Star” Latin for Lucifer.

The devil was a morning star too, but he fell into darkness.

 

[Techno2000]

Lucifer is not a proper name, it is a latin term which means “morning star.” There is no mortal king or anyone with the proper name of Lucifer, it is a station or title. Passages which refer to Jesus as lucifer in latin or “morning star” in English are:
2 Peter 1:19
REvelations 2:28
Revelations 22:16

For some reason my copy and paste function is not working, but all of these passages refer to Jesus as “Morning Star” Latin for Lucifer.

Is this where you get your ideas from ? theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm Ina Belderis, you are following a heretic.

 

[fasolislithuan]

Techno2000

If your deceptive hipothesis would be true then Jesus would be Satan. Not only because of Revelation 22:16. For example the Praeconium Paschale (an hymn sung during the Easter Vigil) says:

“Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum”

May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death’s domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever)."

Therefore, if you keep in your hipothesis then… how do you explain this contradiction?

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000

If your deceptive hipothesis would be true then Jesus would be Satan. Not only because of Revelation 22:16. For example the Praeconium Paschale (an hymn sung during the Easter Vigil) says:

“Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum”

May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death’s domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever)."

Therefore, if you keep in your hipothesis then… how do you explain this contradiction?

Simple, the devil was a Morning Star too, until he fell into darkness.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000

If your deceptive hipothesis would be true then Jesus would be Satan. Not only because of Revelation 22:16. For example the Praeconium Paschale (an hymn sung during the Easter Vigil) says:

“Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum”

May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death’s domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever)."

Therefore, if you keep in your hipothesis then… how do you explain this contradiction?

Douay-Rheims Bible

[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? [13] And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. [14] I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. [15] But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.

[12] O Lucifer: O day star. All this, according to the letter, is spoken of the king of Babylon. It may also be applied, in a spiritual sense, to Lucifer the prince of devils, who was created a bright angel, but fell by pride and rebellion against God.

drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=27&ch=14&l=12-14#x

 

[fasolislithuan]

Simple, the devil was a Morning Star too, until he fell into darkness.

I want to know what is your exact position. Are you defending that Morning Star (a biblical title of Jesus) can be used for Satan also? And your reasoning what is? Because of an arrogant king of Babylon is called ironical and sarcasticly “Morning Star” in Isaiah 22:16?

 

[Techno2000]

I want to know what is your exact position. Are you defending that Morning Star (a biblical title of Jesus) can be used for Satan also? And your reasoning what is? Because of an arrogant king of Babylon is called ironical and sarcasticly “Morning Star” in Isaiah 22:16?

New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
"How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

New American Standard Bible
"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

King James Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground.

International Standard Version
"How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!

NET Bible
Look how you have fallen from the sky, O shining one, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, O conqueror of the nations!

GOD’S WORD® Translation
How you have fallen from heaven, you morning star, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the ground, you conqueror of nations!

Jubilee Bible 2000
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst claim the Gentiles as an inheritance!

King James 2000 Bible
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, who did weaken the nations!

American King James Version
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

American Standard Version
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

Douay-Rheims Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

Darby Bible Translation
How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations!

English Revised Version
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst lay low the nations!

Webster’s Bible Translation
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

World English Bible
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

Young’s Literal Translation
How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.

 

[fasolislithuan]

New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
"How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
…]

Are you a protestant? I haven’t ask you Biblical quotes but you clarify me your position. I repeat the question:

Are you defending that Morning Star (a biblical title of Jesus) can be used for Satan also? And your reasoning what is? Because of an arrogant king of Babylon is called ironical and sarcasticly “Morning Star” in Isaiah 22:16?

 

[Techno2000]

I want to know what is your exact position. Are you defending that Morning Star (a biblical title of Jesus) can be used for Satan also? And your reasoning what is? Because of an arrogant king of Babylon is called ironical and sarcasticly “Morning Star” in Isaiah 22:16?

"How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!

And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

 

[Techno2000]

Douay-Rheims Bible

[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations? [13] And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north. [14] I will ascend above the height of the clouds, I will be like the most High. [15] But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.

How can a mere mortal man fall from Heaven, when Heaven was closed to mankind ?

 

[Vanny]

Thanks for your responses. Specifically how and why is Freemasonry incompatible with Christianity? As I understand it, the masons say you need to be a part of any religion apparently says its members are free to believe what religion they wish to, while the masons won’t make any preference for any religion over another. It’s as good as having a Theists club – something I doubt any denomination would object to.

The official reasoning, even for the Catholic Church, comes off as too hazy and vague, too disputable by the masons who can readily point to their own statutes to rebut the official reasoning.

Ben: Frankly I agree with you on the point of how silly it is. It looks like an adult version of a kid’s dress-up game. Except for the detail I learnt that the 33rd and 32nd degree masons are satanists, I did not understand why something that looks so ridiculous could be such a problem.

Well here is something on the WELS website: www.wels.net/what-we-believe/questions-answers/fellowship/masons it also points to links to why they believe freemasonry is incompatible with Biblical Christianity.