Which religions teach eradication of poverty?

[MartinJordan]

What the title of the thread asks.

Meanwhile, Christianity doesn’t teach eradication. Because Jesus said the poor we will always have with us. It’s much more nuanced but for now I’ll start with this OP question.

Discuss.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

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The Baha’i religion teaches the eradication of the extremes of wealth and poverty. How do we eradicate such extremities?

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“O CHILDREN OF DUST! Tell the rich of the midnight sighing of the poor, lest heedlessness lead them into the path of destruction, and deprive them of the Tree of Wealth. To give and to be generous are attributes of Mine; well is it with him that adorneth himself with My virtues.”***

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/hw-122.html

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[MartinJordan]

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The Baha’i religion teaches the eradication of the extremes of wealth and poverty. How do we eradicate such extremities?

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So not eradication of poverty but the extremes of poverty. Right?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

So not eradication of poverty but the extremes of poverty. Right?

MJ

It is explained as such;

The fourth principle or teaching of Baha’u’llah is the readjustment and equalization of the economic standards of mankind. This deals with the question of human livelihood. It is evident that under present systems and conditions of government the poor are subject to the greatest need and distress while others more fortunate live in luxury and plenty far beyond their actual necessities. This inequality of portion and privilege is one of the deep and vital problems of human society. That there is need of an equalization and apportionment by which all may possess the comforts and privileges of life is evident. The remedy must be legislative readjustment of conditions. The rich too must be merciful to the poor, contributing from willing hearts to their needs without being forced or compelled to do so. The composure of the world will be assured by the establishment of this principle in the religious life of mankind. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 107.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

It is explained as such;

The fourth principle or teaching of Baha’u’llah is the readjustment and equalization of the economic standards of mankind. This deals with the question of human livelihood. It is evident that under present systems and conditions of government the poor are subject to the greatest need and distress while others more fortunate live in luxury and plenty far beyond their actual necessities. This inequality of portion and privilege is one of the deep and vital problems of human society. That there is need of an equalization and apportionment by which all may possess the comforts and privileges of life is evident. The remedy must be legislative readjustment of conditions. The rich too must be merciful to the poor, contributing from willing hearts to their needs without being forced or compelled to do so. The composure of the world will be assured by the establishment of this principle in the religious life of mankind. – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 107.

Regards Tony

Is it the same as:

It is in this context that the Bahá’í International Community would like to offer two principles as guides for efforts in the realm of poverty eradication: justice and unity. **These principles underlie a vision of development in which material progress serves as a vehicle for the moral and cultural advancement of humanity. Justice provides the means capable of harnessing human potential to eradicate poverty from our midst, **through the implementation of laws, the adjustment of economic systems, the redistribution of wealth and opportunity, and unfailing adherence to the highest ethical standards in private and public life.

bic.org/statements/eradicating-poverty-moving-forward-one#rdY2oLeSePe0GExp.97

?

“Eradicating poverty from our midst.” ?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Is it the same as:

It is in this context that the Bahá’í International Community would like to offer two principles as guides for efforts in the realm of poverty eradication: justice and unity. **These principles underlie a vision of development in which material progress serves as a vehicle for the moral and cultural advancement of humanity. Justice provides the means capable of harnessing human potential to eradicate poverty from our midst, **through the implementation of laws, the adjustment of economic systems, the redistribution of wealth and opportunity, and unfailing adherence to the highest ethical standards in private and public life.

bic.org/statements/eradicating-poverty-moving-forward-one#rdY2oLeSePe0GExp.97

“Eradicating poverty from our midst.”?
MJ

Yes Martin, this is the same.

There will always be a scale of wealth between Rich an Poor as there always has been.

These writings tell us that extreme poverty and extreme wealth will be no longer. They will be eradicated. This is a God given Balance and it is always good to know that the Poor are Gods trust. To be poor in worldly goods and rich in God has always been a bounty to man.

What exactly are you looking for here?

God bless and regards Tony

 

[Abu]

MartinJordan#1
Christianity doesn’t teach eradication. Because Jesus said the poor we will always have with us.

That is not correct, because Jesus also shows the reality that wealth needs to be produced before it can be distributed. Certainly some will choose to be poor and St Paul taught: “For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.” [2 Thessalonians 3:10].

In the parable of the talents, Jesus lauds the servant who has multiplied talents – “For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Mt 25: 14-30). Christ certainly praised the wise use of the fundamental right of economic initiative and prudence in this parable.

1. “There is the emphasis on the ‘talent’, which is a measure of value.
2. “The trading activity of the two stewards is important. Christ praises them for the energy, alertness, and perseverance they demonstrate in making a truly significant profit (they have doubled the original sum). There is a reference to accountability which is crucial to any business.
3. “Then the nuanced criticism of fear: ‘I was afraid, and I went off and hid your talent in the ground.’ This fear leads the lazy steward to avoid the risks and obstacles that are a key part of entrepreneurial work.
4. “There is the clear reference to the financial system. The lazy steward at least could have placed the ‘money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.’ ”

“We can this affirm unambiguously that Jesus Christ ‘looks with love on upon human work’ and that the work of the merchant – the businessman or the entrepreneur – is one of the ‘different forms’ of work that is affirmed. The parable of the talents makes this clear by its reference to money, trading, risk taking and banking.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, Lexington Books, 2010, p 48-49].

Christ’s Catholic Church has been in the forefront of reducing poverty.
Fr James V Schall, S.J., in *Does Catholicism Still Exist?, *Alba House 1994, p 184-185:
“Since the Catholic Church wants poverty confronted, since She wants this confrontation to be done justly and with the interest and cooperation of the workers and the poor, She has had to acknowledge, as did the socialist systems themselves, that there are certain ways that must be employed if mankind is to meet its economic problems. These ways can be known and imitated, but they must include a juridical system, profit, enterprise, knowledge, exchange, a market, voluntary organisations, a relatively independent economy, private property, and respect for work and excellence.”

 

[Servant19]

That is not correct, because Jesus also shows the reality that wealth needs to be produced before it can be distributed. Certainly some will choose to be poor and St Paul taught: “For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.” [2 Thessalonians 3:10].

In the parable of the talents, Jesus lauds the servant who has multiplied talents – “For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Mt 25: 14-30). Christ certainly praised the wise use of the fundamental right of economic initiative and prudence in this parable.

1. “There is the emphasis on the ‘talent’, which is a measure of value.
2. “The trading activity of the two stewards is important. Christ praises them for the energy, alertness, and perseverance they demonstrate in making a truly significant profit (they have doubled the original sum). There is a reference to accountability which is crucial to any business.
3. “Then the nuanced criticism of fear: ‘I was afraid, and I went off and hid your talent in the ground.’ This fear leads the lazy steward to avoid the risks and obstacles that are a key part of entrepreneurial work.
4. “There is the clear reference to the financial system. The lazy steward at least could have placed the ‘money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.’ ”

“We can this affirm unambiguously that Jesus Christ ‘looks with love on upon human work’ and that the work of the merchant – the businessman or the entrepreneur – is one of the ‘different forms’ of work that is affirmed. The parable of the talents makes this clear by its reference to money, trading, risk taking and banking.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, Lexington Books, 2010, p 48-49].

Christ’s Catholic Church has been in the forefront of reducing poverty.
Fr James V Schall, S.J., in *Does Catholicism Still Exist?, *Alba House 1994, p 184-185:
“Since the Catholic Church wants poverty confronted, since She wants this confrontation to be done justly and with the interest and cooperation of the workers and the poor, She has had to acknowledge, as did the socialist systems themselves, that there are certain ways that must be employed if mankind is to meet its economic problems. These ways can be known and imitated, but they must include a juridical system, profit, enterprise, knowledge, exchange, a market, voluntary organisations, a relatively independent economy, private property, and respect for work and excellence.”

“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future” - Baha’u’llah

An excellent summary of Gods eternal teachings dear Abu

The use of our talents, the development of our capabilities and capacities are spiritual qualities ONLY if they are used as a means to serve humanity, not as a means to “advance ourselves over our brothers”, whether materially or through status.
If we acquire riches as a “consequence” of using our talents then it is again a spiritual attribute on how we use our riches, for personal gain or for the gain of our community.

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[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I knew of where families lived in one-room huts in bad repair, the men out drinking then beating their wives.

A friend of theirs saw they needed separate bedrooms for children, space to cook and space to enjoy home life.

This friend went to a contractor and said, “These people need your help, or [name of terrorist group] will claim their affections (which happens a lot in that country). Please donate us so much building materials and lend us some JCBs free of charge and we’ll provide our own labour.”

Now there is less drinking, the men enjoy their wives’ cooking, the children give them privacy.

On their wages they would never ever have afforded a house that is basic but decent.

This friend also introduced Scripture studies. The studies enabled people who previously were shy, ashamed and had frictions, to forge good relationships.

This came as a move of the Spirit in which the friend undertook his initiative. The response of the contractor was also a move in the Spirit.

Maybe it had been a long time since anyone spoke to the contractor himself as a worthwhile human being.

One heart at a time, with a knock on effect on a few more hearts. Who had melted the heart of the friend, in the first place?

 

[MartinJordan]

Yes Martin, this is the same.

There will always be a scale of wealth between Rich an Poor as there always has been.

These writings tell us that extreme poverty and extreme wealth will be no longer. They will be eradicated. This is a God given Balance and it is always good to know that the Poor are Gods trust. To be poor in worldly goods and rich in God has always been a bounty to man.

What exactly are you looking for here?

God bless and regards Tony

I’m looking for differences. There is a difference in the Christian sense of poverty which is nuanced therefore in the Spiritual sense, as opposed to the way the rest of the world seem to demand of the poverty problem.

Meanwhile, Eradication of poverty is not the same as Eradicating extreme poverty. Wherein the Christian’s work as commanded by Christ is of service to mankind, to love one another, which includes to help the less fortunate and those in the fringes of society because they deserve live in dignity as a human.

And there lies the difference. That there are the destitute who suffer the ignominy of abuse and lack the basic necessities to live in dignity as a person. The Christian is called to help eradicate this scourge.

The Christian must remember that Christ came to give the good news to the poor. It is not a sin to be poor because even the so called poor have families and try to make a living. It is rather the calling of the conversion of heart, then the human family on earth can take the step to eradicate destitution from our midst.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

That is not correct, because Jesus also shows the reality that wealth needs to be produced before it can be distributed. Certainly some will choose to be poor and St Paul taught: “For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.” [2 Thessalonians 3:10].

In the parable of the talents, Jesus lauds the servant who has multiplied talents – “For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Mt 25: 14-30). Christ certainly praised the wise use of the fundamental right of economic initiative and prudence in this parable.

1. “There is the emphasis on the ‘talent’, which is a measure of value.
2. “The trading activity of the two stewards is important. Christ praises them for the energy, alertness, and perseverance they demonstrate in making a truly significant profit (they have doubled the original sum). There is a reference to accountability which is crucial to any business.
3. “Then the nuanced criticism of fear: ‘I was afraid, and I went off and hid your talent in the ground.’ This fear leads the lazy steward to avoid the risks and obstacles that are a key part of entrepreneurial work.
4. “There is the clear reference to the financial system. The lazy steward at least could have placed the ‘money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest.’ ”

“We can this affirm unambiguously that Jesus Christ ‘looks with love on upon human work’ and that the work of the merchant – the businessman or the entrepreneur – is one of the ‘different forms’ of work that is affirmed. The parable of the talents makes this clear by its reference to money, trading, risk taking and banking.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, Lexington Books, 2010, p 48-49].

Christ’s Catholic Church has been in the forefront of reducing poverty.
Fr James V Schall, S.J., in *Does Catholicism Still Exist?, *Alba House 1994, p 184-185:
“Since the Catholic Church wants poverty confronted, since She wants this confrontation to be done justly and with the interest and cooperation of the workers and the poor, She has had to acknowledge, as did the socialist systems themselves, that there are certain ways that must be employed if mankind is to meet its economic problems. These ways can be known and imitated, but they must include a juridical system, profit, enterprise, knowledge, exchange, a market, voluntary organisations, a relatively independent economy, private property, and respect for work and excellence.”

See my post #10

MJ

 

[Abu]

MartinJordan #10
The Christian must remember that Christ came to give the good news to the poor. It is not a sin to be poor because even the so called poor have families and try to make a living. It is rather the calling of the conversion of heart, then the human family on earth can take the step to eradicate destitution from our midst.

That “step” has occurred with the advent of Catholicism.

The free enterprise system was developed by the Catholic Late Scholastics and then the Austrian school of economists. There is nothing that can compare with its economic laws – it is the economic approach that has revolutionised the standard of living of billions. Individual morality determines how owners or managers or employees treat each other and the customers, which ethic may derive from a policy set by the firm.

It is misuse of wealth, and lack of love that matters, not the great vocation of the entrepreneur who creates wealth and jobs.

Perhaps the fact of the development of the economic laws of free enterprise that owe so much to the Catholic Late Scholastics, and endorsed by St John Paul II as a development in social teaching, is beginning to get through. Free enterprise, like everything else, works best when those who engage in it observe the natural moral law and the precepts of the Catholic Church. No other economic system has ever enabled such a creation and distribution of wealth as has occurred since its development.

Pope St John Paul II in Centesimus Annus, 1991, #42:
If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.

Without the great contribution of the Industrial Revolution, sparked by Catholic economic and social thought and action in the West, we would still be eking out an existence as before that development. Catholic teaching, especially social teaching outlines the morality of this interaction.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… It is … the calling of the conversion of heart, then the human family on earth can take the step to eradicate destitution from our midst.

MJ

No, can take a step to eradicate a little bit of destitution from a little bit of their midst. Once.

Now you tell me, then what?

 

[TonyBS]

I’m looking for differences. There is a difference in the Christian sense of poverty which is nuanced therefore in the Spiritual sense, as opposed to the way the rest of the world seem to demand of the poverty problem.

Meanwhile, Eradication of poverty is not the same as Eradicating extreme poverty. Wherein the Christian’s work as commanded by Christ is of service to mankind, to love one another, which includes to help the less fortunate and those in the fringes of society because they deserve live in dignity as a human.

And there lies the difference. That there are the destitute who suffer the ignominy of abuse and lack the basic necessities to live in dignity as a person. The Christian is called to help eradicate this scourge.

The Christian must remember that Christ came to give the good news to the poor. It is not a sin to be poor because even the so called poor have families and try to make a living. It is rather the calling of the conversion of heart, then the human family on earth can take the step to eradicate destitution from our midst.

MJ

No difference Martin. The material world currently reflects the spiritual health of the world.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[abucs]

Poverty is a human subjective concept.

You cannot eradicate an undefined abstract concept.

Talking about helping your fellow man in the grace of God makes much more sense.

 

[TonyBS]

Poverty is a human subjective concept.

You cannot eradicate an undefined abstract concept.

Talking about helping your fellow man in the grace of God makes much more sense.

Have you lived in a 3rd World country? Poverty is real and defined. It means you have not the means to survive while the rich stuff themselves with all they can.

I have seen the person that fights for survival give a fortune to God. I have seen the rich give pittance to God.

Is that defined well enough?

How can any follower of any Faith allow any person in this earth suffer to tje basix needs of life, yet less than a few % of the peoples of the earth hold much of the material wealth.

The next step could be to define Min and Max living necessities and then more fairly distribute. I see the voluntary giving of wealth to those less fortunate being undertaken by more and more people. Which shows that it will eventualy be so.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Talking about helping your fellow man in the grace of God makes much more sense.

Absolutely.

The conversion of heart to God. My last point in post #10 regretfully excluded "to God " when it was supposed to.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Talking about helping your fellow man in the grace of God makes much more sense.

Absolutely.

The conversion of heart to God. My last point in post #10 regrettably excluded "to God " when it was supposed to.

Appreciated your post #12 . Excellent.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Absolutely.

The conversion of heart to God. My last point in post #10 regrettably excluded "to God " when it was supposed to.

Appreciated your post #12 . Excellent.

Peace be with you.

MJ

It’s easy to say this in front of a computer munching on a papadum

Not so easy to say this, or even “think” like this when you have absolutely no idea if you will eat or drink today.

Let’s us end that level of poverty first, then see if thoughts and attention can be directed towards God.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

It’s easy to say this in front of a computer munching on a papadum

Not so easy to say this, or even “think” like this when you have absolutely no idea if you will eat or drink today.

Let’s us end that level of poverty first, then see if thoughts and attention can be directed towards God.

.

God first. Man should not demand God to bend to man’s will.

Peace be with you.