Which religions teach eradication of poverty?

[Servant19]

God first.

Peace be with you.

So a child is dying and you have the food in your hand to keep them alive but you won’t give it to them until they confess their love for God first?

If this is how God works, better off an atheist.
I can be more loving than God in this situation

.

 

[abucs]

Have you lived in a 3rd World country?

Yes i’ve spent 3 years living in SE Asia and am going back there next month hopefully to teach for two more years.

I’ve lived in many poor SE Asian communities, both rural and urban. I’ve lived on rice and fish and resided for months at a time in bamboo huts. I think i know what i’m talking about.

Poverty is real and defined. It means you have not the means to survive while the rich stuff themselves with all they can.

I have seen the person that fights for survival give a fortune to God. I have seen the rich give pittance to God.

Is that defined well enough?

No, it’s not.

It proves my point that poverty is ill-defined.

Defining poverty as somehow being attached to your observance that people who are rich do not give to God and stuff themselves with all they can is more a political view of the causes of inequality. It is not a definition of poverty.

 

[adamhovey1988]

If I recall correctly, Christianity can eradicate SPIRITUAL poverty

 

[Servant19]

Yes i’ve spent 3 years living in SE Asia and am going back there next month hopefully to teach for two more years.

I’ve lived in many poor SE Asian communities, both rural and urban. I’ve lived on rice and fish and resided for months at a time in bamboo huts. I think i know what i’m talking about.

No, it’s not.

Hi abucs

Maybe the United Nations definition will assist with this dialogue?

un.org/sustainabledevelopment/poverty/

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[MartinJordan]

So a child is dying and you have the food in your hand to keep them alive but you won’t give it to them until they confess their love for God first?

If this is how God works, better off an atheist.
I can be more loving than God in this situation

.

Is that what you would rush to say to me when a hungry person is there where I am?

Strange.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[abucs]

Hi abucs

Maybe the United Nations definition will assist with this dialogue?

un.org/sustainabledevelopment/poverty/

.

Again this seems to make my point. The UN definition is completely different to Tony’s definition.

The U.N. page you linked to chose to define poverty as :

Poverty is more than the lack of income and resources to ensure a sustainable livelihood. Its manifestations include hunger and malnutrition, limited access to education and other basic services, social discrimination and exclusion as well as the lack of participation in decision-making. Economic growth must be inclusive to provide sustainable jobs and promote equality.

I do not see social discrimination as poverty. They are two separate things and we can discuss what exactly social discrimination might be. I am sure there is a whole lot of disagreement on that. There might be a rich family living in an area where the people around them are hostile. Take for example a military base in hostile territory. Are those soldiers living in poverty?

Take for example someone who has won the lottery and whose family has ostracised them for any number of reasons. Are they living in poverty?

Poverty is an emotional word and you can see by the above attempt to define poverty to include so many diverse issues that the definition has become a political football to push certain agendas.

Access to education. What education? There is a lot of mis-education and education is something that there can be a lot of disagreements about.

What if you are living on $2 a day but you have a school down the street, does that mean that you are not in poverty?

What about the rich oil sheik who does not have a job nor wants one. Is he in poverty?

Poverty is an abstract concept and it is ill-defined.

I go back to my original point.

Talking about helping your fellow man in the grace of God makes much more sense.

For the Christian, this is much better than following political agenda of non Christian groups like the United Nations who use an ill-defined emotional word.

 

[arthra]

There’s a good statement on the eradication of poverty at

bahai-library.com/bic_poverty_economics_value

 

[abucs]

How can any follower of any Faith allow any person in this earth suffer to tje basix needs of life, yet less than a few % of the peoples of the earth hold much of the material wealth.

The next step could be to define Min and Max living necessities and then more fairly distribute. I see the voluntary giving of wealth to those less fortunate being undertaken by more and more people. Which shows that it will eventualy be so.

Voluntary giving to the poor in Christian charity and forced usurpation of peoples wealth for political ideology are two very different things.

One is good, the other is evil.

 

[abucs]

How can any follower of any Faith allow any person in this earth suffer to tje basix needs of life, yet less than a few % of the peoples of the earth hold much of the material wealth.

The next step could be to define Min and Max living necessities and then more fairly distribute. I see the voluntary giving of wealth to those less fortunate being undertaken by more and more people. Which shows that it will eventualy be so.

Regards Tony

Tony, what your comments do not address is that wealth is continually created and destroyed. Clothes, houses, cars, etc etc.

Apart from the obvious evil of stealing from people, when you take the wealth off people who create it, then they are going to decide not to create so much wealth anymore.

When you put in place a forced politics that guarantees that wealth to other people, they are also going to create less wealth because they believe they are entitled to wealth from the first group.

In the end, everyone produces less wealth and everyone is worse off.

This is the obvious problem of equating equality with the eradication of poverty. It does not work. It makes things worse. For the Christian it is much better in Christian charity, to help people create more wealth.

It is an ongoing process.

 

[TonyBS]

Tony, what your comments do not address is that wealth is continually created and destroyed. Clothes, houses, cars, etc etc.

Apart from the obvious evil of stealing from people, when you take the wealth off people who create it, then they are going to decide not to create so much wealth anymore.

When you put in place a forced politics that guarantees that wealth to other people, they are also going to create less wealth because they believe they are entitled to it from the first group.

In the end, everyone produces less wealth and everyone is worse off.

This is the obvious problem of equating equality with the eradication of poverty. It does not work. It makes things worse. For the Christian it is much better in Christian charity, to help people create more wealth.

It is an ongoing process.

The argument is eextreames of wealth and poverty, not elimination of wealth and the not so wealthy which is required.

Regards Tony

 

[abucs]

The argument is eextreames of wealth and poverty, not elimination of wealth and the not so wealthy which is required.

Regards Tony

Do you understand my point that wealth is continually created and destroyed and it is better to help people create wealth rather than focussing on taking it from others?

 

[Servant19]

Is that what you would rush to say to me when a hungry person is there where I am?

Strange.

Peace be with you.

MJ

I think Jesus would give the hungry child food first, physical food. THEN the spiritual food comes after that.

.

 

[Servant19]

Voluntary giving to the poor in Christian charity and forced usurpation of peoples wealth for political ideology are two very different things.

One is good, the other is evil.

In many senses you are correct, no one should be forced to forgo their wealth.

However, do you not believe in taxation?

.

 

[Servant19]

There’s a good statement on the eradication of poverty at

bahai-library.com/bic_poverty_economics_value

Excellent link

.

 

[Servant19]

Again this seems to make my point. The UN definition is completely different to Tony’s definition.

The U.N. page you linked to chose to define poverty as :

I do not see social discrimination as poverty. They are two separate things and we can discuss what exactly social discrimination might be. I am sure there is a whole lot of disagreement on that. There might be a rich family living in an area where the people around them are hostile. Take for example a military base in hostile territory. Are those soldiers living in poverty?

Take for example someone who has won the lottery and whose family has ostracised them for any number of reasons. Are they living in poverty?

Poverty is an emotional word and you can see by the above attempt to define poverty to include so many diverse issues that the definition has become a political football to push certain agendas.

Access to education. What education? There is a lot of mis-education and education is something that there can be a lot of disagreements about.

What if you are living on $2 a day but you have a school down the street, does that mean that you are not in poverty?

What about the rich oil sheik who does not have a job nor wants one. Is he in poverty?

Poverty is an abstract concept and it is ill-defined.

I go back to my original point.

For the Christian, this is much better than following political agenda of non Christian groups like the United Nations who use an ill-defined emotional word.

Again, in many senses you are correct abacs

I would suggest you read the link arthra provided above and share your thoughts

It’s about the equalisation of opportunity and the elimination of oppression and tyranny, as a start.

.

 

[abucs]

In many senses you are correct, no one should be forced to forgo their wealth.

However, do you not believe in taxation?

.

I think there is a modern ideology which wants to solve most, if not all problems through taxation and redistribution of wealth and this will not create a better society but cause much misery.

So i accept taxation in the Christian context of Western culture. I absolutely reject the non Christian idea that all problems will be solved by more taxation and redistribution through a secular state. I cannot overstate the evil that i believe this ideology has and will create.

 

[Servant19]

I think there is a modern ideology which wants to solve most, if not all problems through taxation and redistribution of wealth and this will not create a better society but cause much misery.

So i accept taxation in the Christian context of Western culture. I absolutely reject the non Christian idea that all problems will be solved by more taxation and redistribution through a secular state. I cannot overstate the evil that i believe this ideology has and will create.

If we have a group of people in our community who have not been educated, not got the skills to work or create a healthy life for themselves and their families, would we not want to help them?

What could we do? Talk to them first, find what each one is passionate about, then offer opportunities for them to live their passion as a means by which they can use it to serve the community and in return receive what they need to provide for themselves and their families.

If that sounds just and fair and beneficial for the common good, then we require resources for this, financial and human resources.

If there are a lot of people in our community lacking these opportunities, then is it not logical to create a working group that can be dedicated to this task?
That working group assesses the situation, creates a budget and all contribute financially towards that budget. If everyone agrees, then we have a taxation system in place.

.

 

[abucs]

The questions are on what basis are you going to obtain those finances?

What limits in quantity and ideology are you going to place on yourself for obtaining those finances?

How are you going to measure the success of the invested finances?

By what means are you going to resolve the disagreements on whose finances they are and what they should be used for and what is the best way to use those finances?

 

[Servant19]

The questions are on what basis are you going to obtain those finances?

What limits in quantity and ideology are you going to place on yourself for obtaining those finances?

How are you going to measure the success of the invested finances?

By what means are you going to resolve the disagreements on whose finances they are and what they should be used for and what is the best way to use those finances?

All of this is as an outcome of a “spiritual education”

The Baha’i religion is creating a “new race of men” through this spiritual education.

.

 

[TonyBS]

Do you understand my point that wealth is continually created and destroyed and it is better to help people create wealth rather than focussing on taking it from others?

Yes fully aware. May I acknowledge your service and may God grant you the bounty to continue with this.

One does not supply a book of answers in reply to a Post on CAF, even if many books are available.

A link was provided above and here is another one - bahai-library.com/graham_bahai_economics

There is a truck more load of information on this subject and may the world put this into practice

God Bless and Regards Tony