Which sins did Jesus die for?

[Catholic_Tom]

I’m a little confused. I understand that Jesus died for all our sins, but what I’m confused about is that even though he died for our sins, we need confession for sins we commit. These questions are in my head that I’m a little confused about, thats all. Why do we need penance? Didn’t Jesus pay the price for our sins? Maybe I’m getting this wrong, but isn’t penance our way of making it up to God for our sins? (which doesn’t quite fit when Jesus’ death takes away my punishment for my sins)

If someone could clarify this, it would be great. I guess I’m looking for a lot of guidance on Penance, it’s purpose, use, and response to the Evangelical position around this.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Jesus died for all of our sins but before our sins are forgive, we need to seek that forgiveness via confession.

With regards to Penance … while God is all-merciful and will forgive ANY sin that we are sincerely sorry for, He is also all-just and justice demands that all wrongs need to be corrected. Thus, the need for penenace.

 

[Sir_Knight]

One more thing … Jesus’s death earned us salvation which is a gift from God and there is nothing which we can do that would merit salvation on our own because even our best works are like dirty rags in the sight of God. But that gift of salvation is that – a gift and it is not forced upon us but must first be accepted by us. We accept that gift by obeying God’s commandments.

When we sin, we damage our relationship with God. Scripture tells us that certain sins are deadly and kill our relationship with God. When that happens, we are cut off from God’s gifts and need to be reconciled with Him by confessing our sins and seeking forgiveness.

 

[JCPhoenix]

Look at it this way:

When we go back to Genesis and original sin, we learn that sin causes spiritual death. When we sin we die spiritually, we turn away from God.

Jump ahead to the time of Christ and when he arrived. At that time in history God had become abstract. People followed the teachings, but they forgot what it was all about. They couldn’t identify with God anymore. They were in spiritual death.

Consider the veil in the temple, seperating God from everyone else. This is such a great metaphor for the sin that seperates us!

Then God sent his only Son, Jesus. He loves us so much he became human…he came to meet us on our terms, to share in our struggles…and when he died, he became the new covenant. (Uh, he was the new covenant before he died, but he fulfilled his part of the covenant at his death and resurrection.)

In order to join with Christ, we in our sinful natures need to repent. We need to share our suffering with Jesus, which he carried for us and died for on Calvary. To a certain degree, we all carry the sins of others. We sin against others and they sin against us. When we forgive and we carry that cross, we are joined with Jesus.

Additionally, Jesus set up his church and provided the sacraments, an ongoing physical manifestation of God’s constant graces. Those sacraments cleanse us, empower us, and lead us to enjoy the fulfillment of what he did for us.

His death did not take away our personal responsibility, but rather opened up a way to heaven. He gave us the opportunity to join in his Body, through his covenant, but in order to do so we must honestly and purely align ourselves with him. As members of the Body of Christ, what affects one affects the others…and we are called to build each other up.

How can be build up the Church when we are wallowing in sin? Thus Confession and the need for penance. We need to be reconciled and turn away from our sin. Without the grace of God we would not have the power to do this, but as members of the Body of Christ, through the sacrifice he made for us, we can defeat the evil one and put an end to all types of death.

A covenant is an agreement…and Jesus already completed his part. Our lifetimes give us the opportunity to fulfill our half of the agreement. We will continue to sin, but God has infinite grace, and if we fall, we can be picked up and set on the road again.

Jesus did not come to change our humanity or our free will, but to change our hearts and purify our souls. But in order for that to happen we need to first accept that grace and extend our hands to join Christ.

Jesus died for ALL your sins…but that doesn’t mean you get a free ride.

 

[Pax]

This an important subject and deserves a full explanation for your Evangelical friends. I usually explain why we confess our sins to a priest in the following way:

“Confessing our sins to a priest.”

The reason we do this is because that is the way God set things up. Let me explain.

In the book of Genesis we read all about the fall of Adam and Eve and about Cain killing Able. While God knew exactly what had happened and what sins had been committed, God still asks Adam and Eve [see Gen 3:11-14] what they had done. Again, when Cain kills Able in Gen 4:10, God asks Cain “What have you done?” God wants us to confess and it is therefore necessary for us to do so.

So where does the priest fit in? In Leviticus 5:5-6 we have a solid prefiguring/foreshadowing of confession and this is carried over into the New Covenant. In Lev. 5:5-6 it says, “When a man is guilty in any of these, he shall confess the sin he has committed, and he shall bring his guilt offering to the Lord for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.” Note how the penitent must confess and take his sin offering to the priest, and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. This requires knowledge of the sin on the part of the priest.

In the New Testament we have a number of verses that refer to the authority to forgive sins. In Matthew 9:6-8, we read “But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”–he then said to the paralytic --“Rise, take up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men." Notice how scripture says that such authority had been given to men. This is significant and is not merely a coincidence. This is the inspired word of God.

The question of authority and power to forgive sin is given obviously to Jesus and this is further affirmed in Matthew 28:18 where we are told, "And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

So just how is this authority transfered to the apostles and their successors? In John 20:21-23 "Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” This is an incredible set of verses. They are rich in meaning and power. Notice that Jesus sends the apostles in the same way that the Father sent Him. The Father sent Jesus with all power and authority which included the power to forgive sins. So also Jesus sends the apostles. Jesus breathes on the apostles and says, “receive the Holy Spirit.” There is only one other time in all of scripture where God breathes on man, and that is in Genesis when God breathes life into Adam. This is a significant moment in the upper room and it is at this moment that Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven: if you retain the sins of any they are retained.”

Later in the new testament scriptures we find additional verses that speak to confession and reconciliation. The most significant are the following:

2 Corinthians 5: 17-20
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

James 5:14-15
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the presbyters [priests] of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. (“presbyter” is the root word from which we get the term priest)

James 5:16
Therefore confess you sins to one another….

Matthew 18:18
Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (In Jewish culture and faith the power to bind and loose carries a juridical dimension and has application to the forgiveness of sin)

 

[Catholic_Tom]

wow, these answers are awesome. I knew this was the right place to come to. This website and forum are a blessing.

See, i was asked by a Protestant about this and it triggered questions in my own mind, but the answers above make perfect sense.

Here’s another question. Why is Penance a perscribed prayer? I mean, penance is kind of like the punishment after the crime, so how does prayer fit into this?

 

[Catholic_Tom]

anyone…?

 

[Mickey]

Catholic Tom:

wow, these answers are awesome. I knew this was the right place to come to. This website and forum are a blessing.

See, i was asked by a Protestant about this and it triggered questions in my own mind, but the answers above make perfect sense.

Here’s another question. Why is Penance a perscribed prayer? I mean, penance is kind of like the punishment after the crime, so how does prayer fit into this?

Please, please don’t look at penance as a punishment. You have just mended your relationship with God. Your prayers of penance are a thanksgiving for that restored state of Grace. Never look at penance as a punishment. Look at it as a conversation with God, through prayer, for His all merciful loving kindness.

 

[JimG]

Catholic Tom:

Here’s another question. Why is Penance a perscribed prayer? I mean, penance is kind of like the punishment after the crime, so how does prayer fit into this?

A penance assigned in confession doesn’t have to be a prescribed prayer, but it commonly is. (I knew of a person once whose penance was to avoid dating for 2 weeks! Needless to say, he knew the priest and agreed to the penance.)

But in the early days of the sacrament, a prescribed penance might be, for example, to fast 2 days a week for 2 years. Or to stand outside of the church door on Sundays for a number of months or years.

Sometimes a priest will give a non-standard penance, such as, do an act of kindness in the next week that you don’t normally do. But the use of prayers has the advantage of being definite and you know when you have done it.

We have it pretty easy nowadays when it comes to penances.

But there is nothing to keep us from voluntarily doing more penance than is required.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

for you second question about penance and prayer, remember the penance is restitution or reparation for your sins. it is your effort to be more like a person who doesn’t or wouldn’t commit those sins. praying is a significant step in that direction. the assigned penance is a real amendment to your life so that you might sin no more. the forgiveness is contingent on the penance because asking forgiveness is contingent on making amendments to your life. the penance puts your Act of Contrition into action.

i am always careful about considering penance in some sweetened fashion. it is ok to see it as punishment. for me, an unwillingness to be punished signals a defect in my contrition.

as for your first post, i like remember that Jesus died because of the existence of our sins. we shouldn’t think of Jesus’ sacrifice just in terms of today’s thinking. to us today, we see ‘paying a debt’ as a fair exchange. Christ’s payment was unfair. one was not a bartered for the other. our Lord’s sacrifice was first and foremost a gift to the Father. strictly speaking, the only gift that is worthy of God is God Himself. after the Son limited our access to the Father, lest we would continue to insult Him, He gave the gift the Father deserved, Himself. now, as part of Him opening that access to us again, we still have to settle up with the Son, or He’ll close that access to us again. this time not to all humanity, but close it to each of us, one by one.

for me, the idea of Christ ‘paying our debt’ only works when i remember that the Father was ‘overpaid’, and we still owe Christ big time for doing us such a favor. punish us, if that’s what we deserve.

 

[rcn]

JustSomeGuy:

the forgiveness is contingent on the penance because asking forgiveness is contingent on making amendments to your life.

No, that’s not right. When you’re absolved, you’re absolved. It is not contingent on anything. You are expected to do the assigned penance but if you are unable for whatever reason, it does not “undo” the absolution.

 

[Catholic_Tom]

ok, this now makes much more sense to me. Jesus died for the sins of Mankind. It is through the shedding of his blood that we are forgiven, but we must still make reparation for our sins. We must confess our sins, but also do the penance because the penance is our way of affirming that we are truly sorry, whether the penance be a prayer, or a good work, or whatever. Am I on the right track?

You are all so helpful, thanks a million.

 

[rcn]

Catholic Tom:

We must confess our sins, but also do the penance because the penance is our way of affirming that we are truly sorry

I still would not look at it so seriously. We “affirm” that we are truly sorry by confessing to the priest. Based on that, and the priest’s agreement that yes, you are sorry and do not intend to commit the sin again, absolution is given.

From “Catholicism for Dummies”:

Whatever the penance, it’s merely a token, because Catholics believe that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is what made atonement for our sins. Your penance is for your benefit - to remind yourself that God comes first and you come last.

 

[puzzleannie]

all sin merits eternal death as punishment because it rejects God’s love and offends against justice. Jesus’ death remits this just punishment for all sin, the original sin of Adam and Eve (the effects of which we all inherit) and our actual sin we commit in our lifetime. The temporal (earthly punishment and ill effects) of our sin remain, and Jesus stated many times the condition for enjoying God’s forgiveness is that we confess our sin, ask for forgiveness, express contrition, and be absolved through the authority of Jesus (which he gave to the apostles). The other condition is that we forgive those who offend us, and that we do penance. God in his mercy allows us to do penance even after death in purgatory so that we may be perfectly cleansed of the effects of sin and enter heaven spotless.

 

[Catholic_Tom]

puzzleannie:

The temporal (earthly punishment and ill effects) of our sin remain, and Jesus stated many times the condition for enjoying God’s forgiveness is that we confess our sin, ask for forgiveness, express contrition, and be absolved through the authority of Jesus (which he gave to the apostles). The other condition is that we forgive those who offend us, and that we do penance. God in his mercy allows us to do penance even after death in purgatory so that we may be perfectly cleansed of the effects of sin and enter heaven spotless.

Thanks for your posts everyone!! (I’m learning)

Where in scripture (if it does, whether implicit or explicit) does Jesus state that we must express our contrition for the Sin we commit?

How do we know that we can do Penance in Purgatory? Doesn’t Jesus’ Blood cleanse us in Purgatory?

My questions might sound stupid, but they are real questions and obviously listening to people who question your faith, doesn’t help the confusion. Then again, its good that I’m being questioned because it is causing me to think, and to seek this stuff out.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Catholic Tom:

Where in scripture (if it does, whether implicit or explicit) does Jesus state that we must express our contrition for the Sin we commit?

How do we know that we can do Penance in Purgatory? Doesn’t Jesus’ Blood cleanse us in Purgatory?

unless i am forgeting some particular story, i would say Scripture testifies to the need of contrition by the fact that Jesus never went to any of the people to whom He said ‘your sins are forgiven’. they all came to Him. also, when he told the apostles to forgive sins, you figure that they had to know what they are. they knew because people confessed them. the people knew because of contrition. also, John, the Baptizer, preached “repent!” Jesus endorsed him and his ministry. recognizing our sins and having some degree of sorrow seems to be part of almost every story, e.g. the prodigal son.

when it comes to puragory, penance might not be a precise enough word, but really none are. purgatory is a mystery. it will be like what we expect, but we don’t know exactly what to expect. if we die without mortal sin, but still not in a condition worthy of the Father, we are allowed the opportunity to “cleanse” ourselves. what exactly is that? is it scrub brushes and lye soap, acts of penance, purification by fire? i don’t literally know. at fatima, Mary showed the children a vision of purgatory. they said they saw fire, souls in great distress, etc. their vision is the most detailed account have. we do know that it hurts and we want to avoid it. that’s for sure. no matter what, it’s temporary.

i do not think that the Church has ever taught that we are ‘washed in the Blood of Jesus’ (probably an illusion to Rev. 7:14, or some similar passage) in purgatory. this might be said figuratively as a matter of devotion, but it cannot be said literally.