I would agree with this. I’ve worked in and attended Mass in some parishes where it seems like they are “afraid” of any kind of silence during the Mass. Everything needed some kind of musical interlude. Now believe me, music is one of the things that is part of my soul and where I can find God, but sometimes, you need that sacred silence.
Amen! And, by the way, congratulations! I pray that all will go well with you!
Lisa44, this came up in your Hispanic topic on the Traditional forum, but you rightfully asked people to stick with the topic. I’m not allowed to post on Traditional Section anyway, so I’m glad you brought the same issue up in this section of the board because I would like to give my (name removed by moderator)ut.Hi Shin
I have never heard gregorian chant in a church so I can’t comment on that. However, I would like to say that I find it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to pray with music playing. Am I at Mass to pray or to listen to music?
Can anyone do both at once?
I thought a TLM would be different, no guitars etc…annoying song after song after song. But in the TLM it was a constant playing of the organ and a choral group that sang song after song after song.
It gets on my nerves big time. I really like silence.
Sacred music, for me, is a major form of prayer through the actual notes and the words (if there is text to the music). Music is just another language which some people, like myself, can read and which almost all people can understand at their own levels.Hi Shin
I have never heard gregorian chant in a church so I can’t comment on that. However, I would like to say that I find it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to pray with music playing. Am I at Mass to pray or to listen to music?
Can anyone do both at once?
This could be the case. I’ve never asked them if they were influenced by Protestant worship services. I know sometimes, if you grow up hearing musical interludes at Mass and end up becoming a music minister, you will most likely do the same. I also know that some priests actually ask for it. We had a priest who ran the musical theater group at a high school he taught at. Everything in the Mass was thus run like a show. Even the music he wanted was like musical theater. You should have seen him prior to a big Mass. He was quite like a stereotypical flamboyant director. As a performer in the secular world and knowing what it is like to work onstage and backstage, he treated preparing the Mass and running it just like a show. Funny, but sad at the same time.
Oh, gosh, no. I don’t believe anyone is doing that. I certainly wasn’t. The musical interludes don’t annoy me, per say. But it does sometimes seem like certain parishes are afraid of having any kind of sacred silence. And if we want to put in just purely musical and auditory terms, even when you listen to a piece of music outside of mass, it is a natural inclination for the listener to want to hear silence once the last note of the piece is played. I can’t remember what it is called scientifically. But in actuality, a composition isn’t actually complete until you hear that silence. When a person applauds almost as soon as the last note completes, at concert for instance, there is that feeling of incompleteness. I look at prayer and musical prayer in the same way. In order to feel the spiritual completeness (when there is music at Mass) you need BOTH the sacred silence and the sacred music. At Mass it is the lengthen period of silence after a communion hymn or motet that is needed to complete the musical prayer, unless of course it is huge Mass and you need more than one piece to complete the communion line. But even then, there is almost always a period of silence after the first piece is sung/played. At other parts of the Mass where no music is actually called for, these are areas in which silence is very important to create that spiritual completeness.
Unfortunately, in many parishes, I would agree that the priests or music ministers do not direct them to the documents that are needed for musicians. I learned from older mentors in their 40s/50s who learned from their mentors. They were the ones who directed me to the documents. Then I went from there I did my own further research and reading mostly on the Vatican website so that I’d get the right documents. But the problem was, when I would bring it up to one of my former bosses (the pastor), he didn’t want to hear any of it and wanted to keep doing it his own way. Kind of took the “ignorance is bliss” approach. If he didn’t listen, he didn’t know better, so it’s ok to do it wrong. And I wasn’t alone with this kind of experience. Many of my colleagues got the same thing. So, many times these musicians who are trying their best to do what the Church states through the usage of the official documents get tired of not being listened to and leave. You and I weren’t around during the 70s and 80s - me because I was either not born yet or too young to be concerned about liturgy, you because you were still Protestant. When I speak to many of my colleagues who were around during those two decades and working in the Church, I discovered that there were many more music ministers who did understand and know what the documents were requiring, but they were pushed out or shut up because other people (religious and lay people) wanted to get rid of everything that represented Pre-Vat II and bring in the new. So, those who were brought in to take the place of the other musicians (who eventually found positions in high church Protestant congregations) actually didn’t know what was required because they were usually volunteers who might be able to play a little folk guitar and were just asked to play some of the newer hymns or Simon and Garfunkle, etc and the new mass settings.
If there is no music director, you can go to the pastor. But it’s my guess the pastor won’t do anything because he’ll feel he’s lucky that they even have someone to play an instrument at all, and I don’t blame him for that.
That’s a shame you are having that problem at your church. If it is any consolation, I know that in the few met cities in my area, many of the younger organists (meaning under 40) don’t think much of the AGO and don’t belong to it, mainly because there also a lot of bad organists who belong to it as well and they don’t want to be associated with that. I will pray something will happen soon for your city. It seems as if they are still entranced by the AGO there.
I’ve been a musician for the Church (volunteer and professional) since I was about 8, cantor since I was 16. You haven’t been working as a musician in a Catholic church long enough, but spending a lot of time in the sacristy before and after mass, working as a music minister in charge of music at one point in my life, and knowing many other music directors for churches, priests are pretty vocal with what they want and how they want it musically and especially they don’t like it. At one point the organist would drive himself nuts because one priest only wanted a certain number of verses, another wanted all the verses, this one was very strict with the rubrics, the other one wanted it to be like Broadway.
Since you’re not a music director, you probably won’t get it as much. When I’m cantoring I don’t, either. But I’ve watched and experienced it myself.I WISH it was as easy as this. You’d think it would be, right? Something like this was tried in our diocese. Problem was most music ministers didn’t want to take the time to do it. Probably because it wasn’t required, but only encouraged. Oh, and when there were required meetings with all music directors of the diocese and when it was pointed out what was wanted and required of them, there was a fit - not from everyone, but those who wanted to keep doing their secular-style music or just the kind of stuff that would go against the rubrics didn’t want to follow along. If that parish is a well-off parish, nothing is going to be said and done about it. It was even described by one hippy-ish nun who was very much into hoot-n-nanny masses that she despised high church music that the music program at the cathedral represented, which actually follows fairly strictly with the rubrics. So, you have that problem. And I think right now the bishops have to choose their battles.
Hi Cat
Oh my! That is hillarious.
Wow
I honestly could care less about the KIND of music played. I crave CONSISTENCY in the service. It’s hard to listen to (at least to me) a hymn, followed by a modern toe-tapper. It seems disjointed and jerky.
I also (although this is purely a personal preference) could care less if all those “contemporary” songs from the 70’s fell into a bottomless pit!
You’re funny.Thanks for explaining.Hi Cat
I love the piano.
I can’t do two things at once.
When the Mass is happening and there is a song playing and people singing then its hard to focus on praying the Mass. (for me this is).
And, I feel music is essentially emotional, and I don’t like having my emotions tugged on. I only want to feel the emotion I feel, and not have someone else’s emotional layer put on me (on my ears). Weird I know. I’m a weird person.
Its kindof like reading a book, and someone reading another book outloud beside you.
Oh, no, no, no!!!Wow
You must really take me for a simpleton.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that I am one of those people who gets nothing from music or any kind of art form?
Astonishing. You must have looked into your crystal ball.
Ok, jokes aside…
Do you want a resume of all the art galleries and concerts I have attended? Perhaps a list of music I enjoy listening to at home?
Ok friend, I’m playing with you obviously.
When I’m at home and I’m doing the rosary as an example, I do not put on a CD because even if its Bach its still going to distract me from my prayers. I’ll listen to music after I pray though, or before, but not during.
Ok, and I’ve never found a Mass that has chanting. That would be interesting. I love gregorian chant but never heard it in a Mass so I can’t comment on that as I stated earlier.
Peace
I did not mean it in that way at all, and I apologise if that is how it came across. Funny and interesting how communication can be misinterpreted on both sides. I meant music and art within the context of Mass and prayer. I wasn’t even thinking about outside of that and was only focusing on what you were mentioning in your post. From how you worded your original post and how I perceived the post, it seemed that you did not get anything from music during Mass and prayer because you mentioned you found it “nearly impossible” to pray with music and also that it got on your nerves “big time”. So I was trying to be understanding of that and offer advice about at least trying chant during those times, since you seemed to be, from your post, one of those who can’t get much out of music while praying at Mass, which is totally fine. And even if you were one of those who didn’t like art and music at any time, any where, I also wouldn’t find you a simpleton. I understand people are different and have different passions. I’ve always been considered an oddball, myself, so if I thought of others who were different than me the same way “normal” people have treated and thought of me, I’d be pretty much a hypocrite. 
(Basically, I look “normal”, but I have a pretty eclectic group of friends and acquaintances, as well as tastes, tending to surprise people who don’t know me too well- which is always interesting, to say the least. ) It would be cool to get your “resume” though. Since I’m very much into the arts myself, I love talking to people who are also into the arts. It’s interesting to exchange ideas and advice in regards to certain museums or what they like about specific orchestras, vocal timbres, quality in instrumental sound from solo musicians, etc.