Which theology is closest to Catholicsm?

[chrisb]

prodromos:

Orthodox view Catholicism and Protestantism as two sides of the same coin. Orthodoxy and Catholicism are quite different ontologically though they may appear similiar in the externals.

John.

Peace be with you prodromos,

Could you be so kind as to explain this view of two sides of the same coin? I am a convert to Catholicism and I can tell you that Baptists are very much different than Catholicism. Also pin-point a few ontological differences please for reflection. Thanks.

Peace, Love and Blessings,

 

[steve_b]

prodromos:

Orthodox view Catholicism and Protestantism as two sides of the same coin. Orthodoxy and Catholicism are quite different ontologically though they may appear similiar in the externals.

John.

John, I’ll overlook the slight.

“To all in Rome, who are loved by God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. First I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.God whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayersat all times; and I pray that now at last by God’d will the way may be opened for me to come to you. I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong…that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith. I*** urge you brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them***. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ but their own appetites…EVERYONE has heard your obedience, so I am full of joy over you. But I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” [Rm 1:7-12 & 16:17-20]

It takes tremendous obedience to faith to stay united. As Paul says, those who divide are not obedient to the faith given once and for all to the saints. And inspite of popular beliefs, those who have divided, are not serving Our Lord but their own appetites. As for me, I remain united to this Church, the chair of Peter, and the God of peace will soon crush Satan under this Church’s feet.

 

[Amadeus]

Dear ChrisB:

John (prodromos) might not want to answer your question.

Converts to Orthodoxy like John tend to be more “zealous” to the extent of becoming drowned in their polemics.

But his line has become, in a polemical way, a long standing Orthodox “view” of the Catholic Church. The logic goes this way: the Protestant Churches (denominations) are/were the “daughters” of Catholicism and, therefore, BOTH are necessarily “heretical” and are outside of the true Church (Orthodox)!

Whereas, we Catholics believe in a way that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are “sister Churches” and, therefore, we are two sides of the same coin!

We even go farther as to say that the East and West are the “two lungs” of the Church: each tradition contributing to her well-being.

To John, like many of his confreres, ecumenism is a heresy spawned by Vatican II.

 

[RedGolum]

Evan:

I would believe Lutherans are but there are some major differences.

As regards the ‘Lord’s Supper’, the con-substantiation is quite different from trans-substantiantion. But without priests, there never could be trans-substantiontiation. So their theology is possibly correct for what they have as the lord’s supper.

Lutherans believe in the Real Presence of Jesus at Communion. How that takes place is something that is not defined that well. Cosubstution is an Anglican doctrine.

Other than that, conservative (orthodox, evangelical catholic, etc) Lutherans have very similar theology with Roman Catholics. Biggest difference is santification/justificaition (partly because of the language used), papal primacy, the various Marian doctrines, and prayers to the saints. The rest we either agree on or haven’t gotten around to talking about yet.

 

[Malachi4U]

tkdnick:

Not sure if you are including Eastern Orthodox churches in the “Protestant” title. They are definitely the closest to Catholics though. If not, I would probably agree with the other poster - Lutheran…maybe Anglican too.

The Catholic Church includes several rites. The ‘Roman’ Rite is the one we often refer to here but all rites are Catholic. There is only ONE Church, His body of which He is the head, His Church the Catholic Church.

Look at your Catechism, does it say ‘Roman’ Catholic? Does your Bible say ‘Roman’ Catholic? There is no “Roman Catholic Church!” There is a Catholic Church of which the ‘Roman’ Rite is a part.

There is a thread on this topic too.

I hope our Eastern brothers take no offense to some slipps of the keyboard. In the US the Roman Rite is so dominat that we sometimes forget or don’t realize there are other Catholics out there too. I too made this same error at one time .

Anyway, back to the topic…

I would say ‘none’. You are either pregnant or not. You cannot be just a little pregnant. You are right or you are wrong. A little wrong does not make it right.

With that being said, the most similar of major groups would be Episcopalions (sp?) I think. After all, their ministers can become Catholic priests very easily, even when married. I thought of slipping into the preisthood with my wife by becomming an Episcopalian and then reconciling back into His Church, the Catholic Church as a married priest. Then I realised to turn my back on His body, His Church was in itself a sin. I had to follow the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church. I simply had no choice as a Christian.

 

[Amadeus]

Dear Malachi4u:

I might be misunderstanding you but it seems you fail to distinguish between the Eastern Catholic Churches (22 of various Rites) from the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Strictly speaking, only the former, which sometimes indentify themselves as “Orthodox in communion with Rome,” to the continuing chagrin of the Orthodox, are/can be considered Catholic.

Of course, there is only one Church established by Our Lord, Jesus Christ: the Catholic Church, which happens to be a communion of 23 Churches sui juris, the Roman Catholic Church being the largest by far !

 

[steve_b]

RedGolum:

Lutherans believe in the Real Presence of Jesus at Communion. How that takes place is something that is not defined that well. Cosubstution is an Anglican doctrine.

Other than that, conservative (orthodox, evangelical catholic, etc) Lutherans have very similar theology with Roman Catholics. Biggest difference is santification/justificaition (partly because of the language used), papal primacy, the various Marian doctrines, and prayers to the saints. The rest we either agree on or haven’t gotten around to talking about yet.

We need to keep in mind, that without valid orders, there is no fullness of sacramental life. Lutherans don’t have valid orders, and neither do Anglicans, except for a very small group of Anglicans, I think the CEC, (could be wrong on this) have valid orders.

 

[GKC]

steve b:

We need to keep in mind, that without valid orders, there is no fullness of sacramental life. Lutherans don’t have valid orders, and neither do Anglicans, except for a very small group of Anglicans, I think the CEC, (could be wrong on this) have valid orders.

And might your (tentative) view of the CEC be based on someone you knew?

Or, to put it another way - Are you the steveb from the CUF? IF not, that comment above is going to seem strange to you.

And more Anglicans would have valid, though illicit, orders than you might think, using the logic of Apostolicae Curae. Anglicans don’t use use that logic at all, of course.

GKC

traditional Anglican

 

[steve_b]

GKC:

And might your (tentative) view of the CEC be based on someone you knew?

Or, to put it another way - Are you the steveb from the CUF? IF not, that comment above is going to seem strange to you.

And more Anglicans would have valid, though illicit, orders than you might think, using the logic of Apostolicae Curae. Anglicans don’t use use that logic at all, of course.

GKC

traditional Anglican

Is that you Jim? If it is, you ole horse thief, how ya been? Hey, please don’t take offense. You’ve known my position all along anyway. It’s funny, since CUF, (sad to see it go), I’ve tried to respond to topics as if I knew each person for a long time. Man, this is a big forum!!! Trying to say the tough things easily isn’t easy (startin to sound like Yogi). So personal views and clumsy wording aside, what do I know about this other than what the Church tells me, right? But you knew that too. Just being transparent, the valid but illicit argument, never made sense to me. I know Anglicans disagreed with AC. Since it’s the Church who makes the final decision on this subject not me, I think I’ll leave it at that. Whew !!

 

[GKC]

Greetings, steveb,

Yep, it’s me. Been posting here since before the CUF went to that great roundup in the sky, spreading the word on traditional Anglicanism. Lots of talk about ol’ Henry.

Sure, I know your position. And it’s the one I often remind my RC friends they should hold. As you’ll recall, I don’t post to try to make folks think like an Anglican, just to show what an Anglican thinks. In this case, that AC is an incorrect, though not illogical, judgement. Be that as it may, it is without a doubt a fact that the RCC believes and teachs that, in general, Anglican orders are invalid (the illicit part follows logically, assuming there were any Anglicans possessing valid orders). And all RCs should affirm what their Church teaches. Doesn’t bother me a bit. As you know, I don’t affirm it. And in such forums as this, I usually limit my discussion to presenting historical facts in the case, recommending Hughes’ and Clark’s books on the respective positions, and posting the URL to our friend Joe’s site.

If I can make the system work, I’ll be posting a private message to you. Got some info on the old gang. TiIl then, Happy Trails.

GKC

traditional Anglican

 

[steve_b]

GKC:

to our friend Joe’s site.

Say Hi to Joe for me

GKC:

If I can make the system work, I’ll be posting a private message to you. Got some info on the old gang. TiIl then, Happy Trails.

GKC

traditional Anglican

See you round the old corral. Maybe the old gang will find us and want to join.

 

[Uncle_Abee]

Which theology is closest - Probably the eastern orthodox one.

Who’s going heaven besides Catholics? - If you are a true Catholic you believe you are going to heaven and maybe a few others who fall into an allowed exception group. This exception group is found in the writings of men and not in the inspired scriptures.

The truth is that at the beginnings of each church (Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, etc.) They thought they were the only ones going to heaven. Everybody else was doing it wrong. Therefore there was no mingling between denominations. As time went along, intermingling naturally occurred, as it always does. People got to know each others religous convictions. They found that there were more similarities than differences. People began to doubt whether they had “all” the truth or not. A Catholic may have witnessed another person’s whose conviction for Christ was greater than their own and was not a Catholic. This lead to people believing that there was a chance they may not go to heaven because they didn’t believe like this person who was more convicted than them. The other person’s religous conviction put doubt in their own minds. This being coupled with most people’s lack of understanding of the scriptures and teaching on the “one church” they created this “everybody’s ok” doctrine. That way everybody’s covered and gets to go to heaven.