Which Was The Deceiver, Adam Or Eve?

[elts1956]

Just curious to know which of these two do you believe betrayed God. Adam or Eve?

My personal undocumented opinion is they both sinned. However, Eve didn’t cram that fruit down Adam’s throat, so those who see Eve in the form of evil seductress need to also see Adam as a weak willed oaf.

 

[elts1956]

Just curious to know which of these two do you believe betrayed God. Adam or Eve?

Adam had two jobs: care for Eve and tend the Garden. He failed at both. To me, God was asking him why he failed at both, and Adam blaimed Eve. In other words, “She kept me from doing my job.” God then asked Eve what she had done, in other words, 'Why or how did you mess Adam up." And she told about the deception of the snake.

Eve needed Adam’s help and Adam needed Eve’s support. They both let each other down.

Not to bait you, we also need to remember that both Adam and Eve had the self responsibility of obeying God. Adam blamed Eve when he could have just as well said no. Eve blamed the Snake when she could just as well have said no. In other words they messed themselves up. .

 

[brkn1]

We all know the serpent was the original deciever. Neither Eve nor Adam would have likely taken that first bite, without the serpent, which was taken over by Satan’s spirit, talking Eve into doing it.
Both humans were innocent at first and it probably would not have occurred to either of them to actually eat the forbidden fruit, unless the serpent did a “sales job” on Eve. The serpent lied about what would happen. It was a deliberate deception that had its source in Satan. The serpent must have been first decieved by Satan. The serpent also suffered from the deception.
Satan seemed to be the only “winner” at that time, but Jesus has taken care of that already. Satan will be the ultimate loser in the end.

 

[elts1956]

I tend to agree with you on this as another angle. I had a discussion with someone about this and we think that Adam was there and Eve was there to help Adam not to sin but Adam said let’s do it anyways and her no should have been listened to and heeded so it was Adam that beguiled Eve. Our conclusion was a woman can help a man stay out of hot water looking out for him to stay spiritually safe and out of sin or not.

So does this mean that the “woman” is to keep the man out of trouble? Is a man to keep a woman out of trouble? And if they fail, whose fault is it?

 

[elts1956]

I tend to agree with you on this as another angle. I had a discussion with someone about this and we think that Adam was there and Eve was there to help Adam not to sin but Adam said let’s do it anyways and her no should have been listened to and heeded so it was Adam that beguiled Eve. Our conclusion was a woman can help a man stay out of hot water looking out for him to stay spiritually safe and out of sin or not.

We all know the serpent was the original deciever. Neither Eve nor Adam would have likely taken that first bite, without the serpent, which was taken over by Satan’s spirit, talking Eve into doing it.
Both humans were innocent at first and it probably would not have occurred to either of them to actually eat the forbidden fruit, unless the serpent did a “sales job” on Eve. The serpent lied about what would happen. It was a deliberate deception that had its source in Satan. The serpent must have been first decieved by Satan. The serpent also suffered from the deception.
Satan seemed to be the only “winner” at that time, but Jesus has taken care of that already. Satan will be the ultimate loser in the end.

I agree that Satan somehow got the snake to deceive Eve and he taught him well. I read somewhere that before this deception the snake was one of the most beautiful creatures God had created. When Adam and Eve fell, because of the snake’s deceit, God condemned the snake to “crawl on its belly” from that time on.

 

[Benadam]

Thoughts

Neither Adam nor Eve were deceivers. The serpent opened the dialogue with Eve from a position of false respect for the heirarchy of relationship established by God.

To Eve this presented an appropriate introduction to the personage of the serpent. Like addressing someone who is closer to a king for clarification the serpent presented it’self to Eve.

The question it’self is multilayered and consequently multipurposed.
To establish a seemingly appropriate environment for the discussion.

To offer a foretaste of the vision the fruit offered.

To reverse the questioner and the knower’s roles establishing an environment that would have been rejected as unsafe.

The serpent reached out it’s hand to touch Eve by asking the question, Eve allowed it to touch her by answering. The question springs from the vision of creation that is unique to fruit of a tree in the ‘midst’ of paradise.

To Eve the question it’self presents a mystery. This mystery is the foretaste of the vision that is the fruit of the tree.

How can it be that to not eat of this tree’s fruit is to not eat from any of the tree’s in the garden?

This is the original imitation of God presented to Eve, the original anti-christ or imitation of the body composed of all it’s various members ( the other trees) with the Lord as the head. (the tree in the midst of the garden)

Eve vocalized the vision that isn’t a lie except if revealed through one who it doesn’t belong to.( thus the serpent is the father of lies and a theif since the beginning) By doing this Eve weaved the mechanizations of deception she experienced from the serpent.

Adam and Eve were deceived. Eve participated in the serpents deception but is not a deceiver. The Serpent is the deceiver who set up a structure of communicating revelation that is an imitation of the structure established by God but the givers and receivers of it are reversed.

 

[ralphinal]

Not to bait you, we also need to remember that both Adam and Eve had the self responsibility of obeying God. Adam blamed Eve when he could have just as well said no. Eve blamed the Snake when she could just as well have said no. In other words they messed themselves up. .

Correct. And since this was pre-Fall, they had no concupiscience to deal with.

 

[Sam_777]

Eve betrayed God by believing what the serpent said rather than believing what God had told them. Adam betrayed Him by going along with her. Both had ‘walked with God’ in the garden and knew Him. They knew God had given them everything they had but they still chose to believe the serpent. It’s just like we do when we accept something the world (TV, magazines, friends) tells us everybody does it and we choose to do it even though God (through the bible and the church) says it’s wrong.

 

[Valke2]

We all know the serpent was the original deciever. Neither Eve nor Adam would have likely taken that first bite, without the serpent, which was taken over by Satan’s spirit, talking Eve into doing it.
Both humans were innocent at first and it probably would not have occurred to either of them to actually eat the forbidden fruit, unless the serpent did a “sales job” on Eve. The serpent lied about what would happen. It was a deliberate deception that had its source in Satan. The serpent must have been first decieved by Satan. The serpent also suffered from the deception.
Satan seemed to be the only “winner” at that time, but Jesus has taken care of that already. Satan will be the ultimate loser in the end.

If indeed the seprent was an innocent animal who was taken over by Satan, why does the serpent suffer a curse from God?

 

[Cathdefender]

If indeed the seprent was an innocent animal who was taken over by Satan, why does the serpent suffer a curse from God?

I don’t believe God had put a curse on the serpant. Satan had his ‘free will’ also, and he used it to bring down Adam and Eve.

 

[brkn1]

If indeed the seprent was an innocent animal who was taken over by Satan, why does the serpent suffer a curse from God?

All creation suffered the curse of God after the fall of Adam, even the inanimate parts of the world.
The serpent may have suffered more than other non-human creatures as an example by God of the seriousness of the serpent’s part in mankind’s fall.
Mankind suffered the most in God’s creation, as history shows.
God had to suffer infinitely more to redeem mankind, along with creation.
Satan and those who follow Satan will suffer in eternity at the neverending end.

 

[dessert]

So does this mean that the “woman” is to keep the man out of trouble? Is a man to keep a woman out of trouble? And if they fail, whose fault is it?

Yes and Yes. Don’t even talk to demons. Talk to your guardian angel tell him, would you please to kick the demon in the butt. Try to go more towards holiness, satan will flee as he is not accomplishing what he wants.
The angelic intellect is much greater than the human intellect. The demons will sometimes try to get a human into a conversation with them. Start praying right away and talk to God and to the holy angels.
It is not really the man trying to control the woman or visa/versa, but in unity they can block that influence of deceit and luring. Much like when parents have made a correct decision for their child one of concern and parental gentleness and know it is God’s will such as correct religious education, a demon will try beguile the child or lure to leave the wisdom of the parents.
These are just my thoughts and is something I have learned to try to help my marriage. I can pm you about a lot of this I have studied if you like.

 

[marymol]

Satan, the serpent is THE deceiver who’s one goal is to lead mankind astray from God.

Romans 5:12 “therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin…”

1 Timothy 2:14 “And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.”

They both sinned and so all men sin. Therefore all die.

Good to see this topic discussed again , since it is good to go back to the beginnings - to be able to learn and relearn the truths …

The truth, now proven by science, that humankind originated from one couple …

And we are told that ’ sin’ in the form of a serpent with its lies entered the world , through Adam , who was to guard the Garden…and his wife …

Was Adam seduced and thus became estranged from The Father …and was that the beginnings of the perversions in our own times …

   Eve, as the weaker vessel, and thus one to know more the need of dependance on God , could have called on The Father ....

The serpent with its lies, that have permeated cultures all through, since those times … …and has brought mockery of the nature of the True God, with untold distortions …all of which could be considered as corrupted forms of Judaism, the faith and guidance given to our first parents …there is worship of snakes and bulls , from Egypt on down …

And the cultures and lands that claim that it is their original faith need to be given the truth - of their true patrimony …

And this last day fo May, The Feast of Visitation , we can thank our Father , with our bl.Mother , whose presence brought joy to an unborn child …she was to scatter the powers of evil and dethrone their rule …through The Truth of The Father’s Love for His children …

Glory be !

 

[Nan_S]

How was it that Bill Cosby described the scene? It’s been years since I heard the skit, but it went something like this:

Adam (thinking): A female. Drooolllll…

Eve (thinking): Oohhh. I can have some fun with this oaf.

Eve to Adam (aloud): "Here, honey. Eat this rock. Eat this dirt. Eat this fruit."

Adam to Eve (aloud): "Yeahhh. Slobberrr. Drooollll."

Now if you want to believe God made Adam that simpleminded, you could argue that Adam should be absolved of responsibility.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine that Adam would not know, at a minimum, what the Forbidden Fruit looked like. That way, when he found a piece on the ground near the tree, he would know to not eat it by accident.

Look back in Genesis at 2:15-25. First God put Adam in the garden. Then God told Adam “See that tree over there? Don’t eat the fruit from that tree.” After this, God created Eve. Who passed the message to Eve?

I’m quite sure that Adam knew exactly what he was doing. And he never said to Eve, “uhhh… there’s something strange about this.”

 

[mark_a]

Eve may have said the serpent beguiled her. That doesn’t mean she was telling the truth. And God only mentions his commandment as being given to Adam.

As for Satan, he doesn’t make an appearance in the story.

Where in the scripture does it say that Eve deceived Adam in any way?

I have heard the point of view that the serpent chose to deceive Eve because he knew he could get to Adam through Eve.

Which reminds me of our American culture today.

 

[mark_a]

I tend to agree with you on this as another angle. I had a discussion with someone about this and we think that Adam was there and Eve was there to help Adam not to sin but Adam said let’s do it anyways and her no should have been listened to and heeded so it was Adam that beguiled Eve. Our conclusion was a woman can help a man stay out of hot water looking out for him to stay spiritually safe and out of sin or not.

I have heard it stated that Satan knew he could deceive Adam through Eve.

 

[Catherine_S]

First satan didn’t deceive Adam.

He deceived Eve.

It was Eve who then deceived Adam.

Also Scripture says:
Genesis 3:13
And the Lord God said unto the woman, “What is this that thou hast done”? And the woman said, “The serpant beguiled me, and I did eat”.

GOD PLACES THE BLAME DIRECTLY ON EVE. He said
**“What is this that thou hast done”? **

Eve did it.

Not Adam.

Satan went to Eve (like any good salesmen) because he knew straight off who was in charge in that family . Which** of the two** would find becoming God the** most** enticing!
*As for Adam, ( Satan knew it would only take a sweet talking women and he was a goner) biting that old apple as if he had not eaten for weeks, not giving a *second thought as to the consequences !
Quite a passive little fellow, too weak to say no, who later (ofcourse) would blame his misdeed on someone else. In this case Eve !
Both sinned!
Both hid from God!
Both learned a valuable lesson!
*The original sin continues til this day…neither male nor **female **are exempted and Satan still uses the same calling card. *
***Power **and **Pride :whacky: *!
*Translated… **my way *instead of God’s way.
.
.
.
.

 

[dessert]

How was it that Bill Cosby described the scene? It’s been years since I heard the skit, but it went something like this:

Adam (thinking): A female. Drooolllll…

Eve (thinking): Oohhh. I can have some fun with this oaf.

Eve to Adam (aloud): "Here, honey. Eat this rock. Eat this dirt. Eat this fruit."

Adam to Eve (aloud): "Yeahhh. Slobberrr. Drooollll."

Now if you want to believe God made Adam that simpleminded, you could argue that Adam should be absolved of responsibility.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine that Adam would not know, at a minimum, what the Forbidden Fruit looked like. That way, when he found a piece on the ground near the tree, he would know to not eat it by accident.

Look back in Genesis at 2:15-25. First God put Adam in the garden. Then God told Adam “See that tree over there? Don’t eat the fruit from that tree.” After this, God created Eve. Who passed the message to Eve?

I’m quite sure that Adam knew exactly what he was doing. And he never said to Eve, “uhhh… there’s something strange about this.”

Yes I think Adam was a simpleton.
Don’t you think God spoke directly with Eve also?

 

[dessert]

I have heard it stated that Satan knew he could deceive Adam through Eve.

I have heard it argued that Adam was directly obedient to God so that is why satan tried Eve. from a man of course, but I think they both acted like they were innocent, like who me? Eve enabled Adam to sin. How is that version?

 

[mark_a]

I have heard it argued that Adam was directly obedient to God so that is why satan tried Eve. from a man of course, but I think they both acted like they were innocent, like who me? Eve enabled Adam to sin. How is that version?

That version is really good! Just like Pilate, we all try to wash our hands of any wrongdoing.