While Europe Slept

  • Thread starter Thread starter cestusdei
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Few nations allow non-citizens to vote. We don’t, except if they are democrats in California and in Chicago where the dead vote frequently. On the other hand how many Jews vote in Saudi elections?

In 2000 a deal was on the table. It would have created peace. They said no and started war. It’s on them period. How many times does this have to happen? Remember 67? Remember 911? I do. They will take peace, but only at the expense of all of Israel. Then it’s on to Sicily, Spain etc.
 
Few nations allow non-citizens to vote. We don’t, except if they are democrats in California and in Chicago where the dead vote frequently. On the other hand how many Jews vote in Saudi elections?
Click to expand...
Yeah, except we’re not talking about immigrant noncitizens. What if the US had declared that all hispanics living in the western US when it was conquered would be non-citizens, and that even though they are subject to the laws of the united states, they would never vote? How about the same rule for native americans?

That’s much more comparable to the situation in Israel.

The fact that Saudi Arabia’s government is immoral and undemocratic doesn’t justify Israel. Two wrongs don’t make a wright, that whole thing.
In 2000 a deal was on the table. It would have created peace. They said no and started war. It’s on them period. How many times does this have to happen? Remember 67? Remember 911? I do. They will take peace, but only at the expense of all of Israel.
Click to expand...
The deals are faux deals. If they were for real, Israel wouldn’t be building settlements by the thousands continuously. But they continue.

As for 1967, that’s when the problem started. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on its neighbors in order to seize Jerusalem. The seizure is illegal by Israel’s own law (the geneva conventions have been signed by Israel), but they continue.

9/11 was in America, arguably the result of discontent over American support for Israel but probably more related to US support for the Saudis and Egyptians.

The Palestinians have never been offered a peace that left them with their homes or dignity. I’m sorry, but peace has never been tried with them, and I am a major supporter of peace…just like most Israelis support peace by means of leaving the west bank.
 
40.png
pro_universal:
Yeah, except we’re not talking about immigrant noncitizens. What if the US had declared that all hispanics living in the western US when it was conquered would be non-citizens, and that even though they are subject to the laws of the united states, they would never vote? How about the same rule for native americans?

That’s much more comparable to the situation in Israel.

The fact that Saudi Arabia’s government is immoral and undemocratic doesn’t justify Israel. Two wrongs don’t make a wright, that whole thing.

The deals are faux deals. If they were for real, Israel wouldn’t be building settlements by the thousands continuously. But they continue.

As for 1967, that’s when the problem started. Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on its neighbors in order to seize Jerusalem. The seizure is illegal by Israel’s own law (the geneva conventions have been signed by Israel), but they continue.

9/11 was in America, arguably the result of discontent over American support for Israel but probably more related to US support for the Saudis and Egyptians.

The Palestinians have never been offered a peace that left them with their homes or dignity. I’m sorry, but peace has never been tried with them, and I am a major supporter of peace…just like most Israelis support peace by means of leaving the west bank.
Click to expand...
Israel has Arab citizens. They vote like everyone else. That is simply not the case in Arab countries. Syria for example has faux elections. Iran? Don’t make me laugh. I pointed out yesterday that many Christian Arabs prefer Israeli citizenship. They just can’t say it out loud.

In 67 the Arabs tried a sneak attack. It failed. They lost land as a result. Guess what? When you lose a war you generally don’t get your lost land back. They shouldn’t have started that war or any of the others they have started.

911 was all about Jihad. The desire to gain world domination for Islam. That’s what they said before, during, and after. I believe them. We are the victim.

Palestinians could have had peace. Arafat blew it. He was offered virtually all of the west bank. They even asked him for a counter offer and he wouldn’t even make one. He wanted it all. That’s not going to happen. Until they realize that they won’t get peace. Once they do then they will have it. Israel is not leaving. If necessary they will just wall them off and let them rot. It will be an imposed peace. With Hamas terrorists in charge that seems to be the most likely outcome. They are simply going to have to settle for about 96% of the west bank at the most.
 
Syria for example has faux elections. Iran? Don’t make me laugh.
Click to expand...
Iran and Syria both have Jewish populations that live with the same rights as the rest of their population.

But again, how does referencing states that are clearly immoral justify the Israeli practice?
In 67 the Arabs tried a sneak attack. It failed.
Click to expand...
This is 100 percent false. Israel did try and succeeded in pulling off a surprise attack on Egypt and then Syria. The Israeli air force struck first in the 67 war. In fact, there is no source anywhere that says otherwise, so I am constantly puzzled by this claim.
They are simply going to have to settle for about 96% of the west bank at the most.
Click to expand...
You are missing my point. The offers of peace in the past were fake offers, because if they were genuine, Israel would not have been racing to build settlement after settlement while proclaiming publicly an intention to leave the west bank.

And then there’s the fact that by Israel’s law and by International law, 100 percent of the territory gained in the 67 war is illegaly occupied. The Geneva Protocols outlawed seizure of land by warfare for any reason whatsoever, and Israel signed the protocols before the war.

You have no leg to stand on here. The occupation is illegal, it was the product of a first-strike by Israel, and it deprives the people who live there of basic human rights. That’s why most Israelis do not support the settler-lobby, and that’s why everywhere in the world except for the United States considers the occupation to be illegal.
 
911 was all about Jihad. The desire to gain world domination for Islam. That’s what they said before, during, and after. I believe them. We are the victim.
Click to expand...
That isn’t what they said. They certainly act for nefarious purposes, but Bin Laden has not once given a statement saying that the motivation for his attacks is to make the whole world Muslim. He says it is retaliation for attacks on Muslims.
 
Uh, wrong. He has stated repeatedly that he wants a Caliphate that covers the whole world. Our fate is to be dhimmi or converts. That’s what they want. They feel little need to cover up their real intentions.
 
40.png
pro_universal:
Iran and Syria both have Jewish populations that live with the same rights as the rest of their population.
Click to expand...
You need to learn something about dhimmitude my friend.
 
40.png
pro_universal:
You have no leg to stand on here. The occupation is illegal, it was the product of a first-strike by Israel, and it deprives the people who live there of basic human rights. That’s why most Israelis do not support the settler-lobby, and that’s why everywhere in the world except for the United States considers the occupation to be illegal.
Click to expand...
Your defintion of the occupation is vastly different than what muslims define the occupation. Muslims define the occupation as all of Isreali land. The fact that Isreal exists where it does is occupation to a muslim.
 
Uh, wrong. He has stated repeatedly that he wants a Caliphate that covers the whole world. Our fate is to be dhimmi or converts.
Click to expand...
Okay, could you show me which of bin laden’s statements make this claim?

As for Jews in Iran, see: csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/1998/02/03/intl/intl.3.html

Also Article 13 of Iran’s constitution.

While they are certianly immoral and oppressive governments, Iran and Syria are not cartoon characters, and it will do us good to learn the truth before we start trying to change things in that part of the world.
 
40.png
pro_universal:
Okay, could you show me which of bin laden’s statements make this claim?

As for Jews in Iran, see: csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/1998/02/03/intl/intl.3.html

Also Article 13 of Iran’s constitution.

While they are certianly immoral and oppressive governments, Iran and Syria are not cartoon characters, and it will do us good to learn the truth before we start trying to change things in that part of the world.
Click to expand...
I wonder what happens to Jews that prostelytize?
 
Why do people always find they need to proletisize. Why can’t they respect each others religion and leave ti at that. The problem is people feel that they have to go out and convert the masses. If someone is curious about a religion, teach them but dont preach that is hypocrittical.
 
Oh yes, Iran’s constitution. It is meaningless. If you want prisons full of torture you don’t have to visit Abu Gharaib. Iran has plenty to go around. You really don’t think Osama wants world conquest for Islam? Where have you been? Just read his declaration of war.
 
40.png
Shadowcry:
Why do people always find they need to proletisize. Why can’t they respect each others religion and leave ti at that. The problem is people feel that they have to go out and convert the masses. If someone is curious about a religion, teach them but dont preach that is hypocrittical.
Click to expand...
After 1300 plus years of muslims trying to conquer in the name of Allah and you say this?

And then you talk about people being hypocritical?
 
After 2000 plus years of Christians trying to conquer in the name of God and you say this?

And then you talk about people being hypocritical?
 
40.png
Shadowcry:
After 2000 plus years of Christians trying to conquer in the name of God and you say this?

And then you talk about people being hypocritical?
Click to expand...
Lets not try to twist the argument.

You are the one that happens to have a problem with prostelytizing especially in Muslim countries. I could care less about muslims doing the same in my country. My country gives a muslim the same exact rights as anyone else, probably more with this political correctness junk. Muslim countries treat non-muslims as second-class citizens. Let’s get that fact straight.
 
40.png
Shadowcry:
Why do people always find they need to proletisize. Why can’t they respect each others religion and leave ti at that. The problem is people feel that they have to go out and convert the masses. If someone is curious about a religion, teach them but dont preach that is hypocrittical.
Click to expand...
Isn’t proseletizing what Muslims on this site do?😛 :rolleyes:
 
40.png
cestusdei:
Few nations allow non-citizens to vote. We don’t, except if they are democrats in California and in Chicago where the dead vote frequently. On the other hand how many Jews vote in Saudi elections?

In 2000 a deal was on the table. It would have created peace. They said no and started war. It’s on them period. How many times does this have to happen? Remember 67? Remember 911? I do. They will take peace, but only at the expense of all of Israel. Then it’s on to Sicily, Spain etc.
Click to expand...
I recall the 4th of July bombings, I also remember the response of many of my Muslim acquaintances and friends, not one of the condoned or endorsed the attacks, they all condemned them. I also remember the story of the corageous underground worker who administered first aid to a great number of people hurt in the stations and danger zones - he happened to be a Muslim. I also recall the furious response of the Muslim council of Britain towards those attackers who carried out the bombings.

It saddens me to see so many people generalising and preaching such a grave misunderstanding about the religion that is Islam. We can never attain world peace if this form of hatred is kept, Ecummenical dialouge is required, and an intelligent understanding of one anothers religions.
 
At every terrorist attack I see pics on TV of Muslims celebrating. They sure did after 911. Happy as clams. In the UK you have guys on trial that were celebrating. I listened to some of your Muslims at Hyde Park on speakers corner. They didn’t sound very moderate to me. You might want to learn arabic just in case.
 
40.png
onesimplemind:
Lets not try to twist the argument.

You are the one that happens to have a problem with prostelytizing especially in Muslim countries. I could care less about muslims doing the same in my country. My country gives a muslim the same exact rights as anyone else, probably more with this political correctness junk. Muslim countries treat non-muslims as second-class citizens. Let’s get that fact straight.
Click to expand...
Denmark and france treated its immigrants like second class citizens
 
Like dhimmi maybe? They can always go home. When you treat Christians well then you will have room to talk.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top