White wine for Eucharist?

[Neithan]

I’m currently away on Student Exchange here in Germany and I just came from a small Mass in the chapel of the Catholic residence I’m staying in. I think there were some liturgical abuses, but unfortunately I didn’t get to talk to the Priest afterwards.

During the Communion, we all stood in a circle around the altar, and the Priest passed the Body of Christ around in a bowl… each communicant said ‘the Body of Christ’ to the person next to them, and we each broke off a piece of the single Host. That didn’t seem right at all. Is it allowed for lay faithful to give each other Communion this way??
The Priest also passed around the prescious Blood (or was it?) which was white. Now, I’m a new Catholic (confirmed last August) but isn’t the Eucharist only supposed to transubstantiate red wine? Isn’t it invalid otherwise?

Suffice it to say… I really didn’t feel like anyone there truly believed that this was the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ Himself we were consuming. It felt merely… symbolic… very Protestant. I asked a few of the other Students whether it really was white wine and whether that’s allowed. They said that it definitely was not red wine, but that it doesn’t matter!

 

[Della]

Neithan:

I’m currently away on Student Exchange here in Germany and I just came from a small Mass in the chapel of the Catholic residence I’m staying in. I think there were some liturgical abuses, but unfortunately I didn’t get to talk to the Priest afterwards.

During the Communion, we all stood in a circle around the altar, and the Priest passed the Body of Christ around in a bowl… each communicant said ‘the Body of Christ’ to the person next to them, and we each broke off a piece of the single Host. That didn’t seem right at all. Is it allowed for lay faithful to give each other Communion this way??

This shouldn’t have been done this way, you are right here.

The Priest also passed around the prescious Blood (or was it?) which was white. Now, I’m a new Catholic (confirmed last August) but isn’t the Eucharist only supposed to transubstantiate red wine? Isn’t it invalid otherwise?

Suffice it to say… I really didn’t feel like anyone there truly believed that this was the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ Himself we were consuming. It felt merely… symbolic… very Protestant. I asked a few of the other Students whether it really was white wine and whether that’s allowed. They said that it definitely was not red wine, but that it doesn’t matter!

The other students are right about this. The wine doesn’t have to be any particular color or type. It only has to be fermented wine from grapes to be valid matter for the Sacrament.

 

[Neithan]

Well, I learned something new! Thanks
I also thought that the bread used should always be wheat. It can’t be rye or anything else. Is that true?

 

[Della]

Neithan:

Well, I learned something new! Thanks
I also thought that the bread used should always be wheat. It can’t be rye or whole-grain or raisin or anything else. Is that true?

You’re welcome. And yes, the bread must be wheat bread composed solely of flour and water–no additives like honey or anything else.

 

[buffalo]

Neithan:

During the Communion, we all stood in a circle around the altar, and the Priest passed the Body of Christ around in a bowl… each communicant said ‘the Body of Christ’ to the person next to them, and we each broke off a piece of the single Host. That didn’t seem right at all. Is it allowed for lay faithful to give each other Communion this way??

No. EMoHC or laity cannot self-communicate.

Communion must be distributed by a Priest, Deacon or EMoHC directly to the faithful. Same with the Precious Blood.

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

**No laity or even a priest or even a bishop which is not a concelebrant of the mass can just get the Sacred Host in the plate as said by Cardinal Arinze. ** It must be given by the priest or deacons or authorized extraordinary minister to the laity.

With regards to wine it must be a grape wine and no other else.

 

[Neithan]

OK, one last question: is it a liturgical abuse for the Priest to ask the whole congregation to recite the doxology (“through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit…”) ?? I’ve seen that in a few parishes, and it seems to confuse clergy with laity. Kind of like a Protestant ‘priesthood of all believers.’

 

[Gem]

It does have that feel. That phrase should be reserved for the priest according to the GIRM.

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

Gem:

It does have that feel. That phrase should be reserved for the priest according to the GIRM.

That is right! it must be reserved for preists alone and the concelebrant if any. Eucharistic prayer should NEVER be abused!

52.] The proclamation of the Eucharistic Prayer, which by its very nature is the climax of the whole celebration, is proper to the Priest by virtue of his Ordination. It is therefore an abuse to proffer it in such a way that some parts of the Eucharistic Prayer are recited by a Deacon, a lay minister, or by an individual member of the faithful, or by all members of the faithful together. The Eucharistic Prayer, then, is to be recited by the Priest alone in full -REDEMPTIONIS SACRAMENTUM

 

[Brain]

actually white wine is preferrable for chatechesis, so that there is no confusion that we belive it is the substance not the accident that is changing.

 

[edrubbra2]

Neithan:

Well, I learned something new! Thanks
I also thought that the bread used should always be wheat. It can’t be rye or anything else. Is that true?

I have always thought that the wine used for Mass should not be adulterated with additives. In Australia, the priests invariably use fortified red wine, which is wine mixed with brandy. This would not have existed in the time of Jesus as distillation had not yet been discovered. Shouldn’t the wine used be table wine unadulterated with the many additives they put in wine these days. the fortified wine does not sour, so they may be using it to save too much wine spoilage.

I’d be greatful if someone could comment on this…is it a liturgical abuse? Is table wine or fortified wine the norm in Americal masses?

Is this a liturgical abuse

 

[Veritas41]

Neithan:

OK, one last question: is it a liturgical abuse for the Priest to ask the whole congregation to recite the doxology (“through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit…”) ?? I’ve seen that in a few parishes, and it seems to confuse clergy with laity. Kind of like a Protestant ‘priesthood of all believers.’

Yes it is. I’ve NEVER seen a priest do that, even in the seriously strange archdiocese I live in!

 

[porthos11]

edrubbra2:

I have always thought that the wine used for Mass should not be adulterated with additives. In Australia, the priests invariably use fortified red wine, which is wine mixed with brandy. This would not have existed in the time of Jesus as distillation had not yet been discovered. Shouldn’t the wine used be table wine unadulterated with the many additives they put in wine these days. the fortified wine does not sour, so they may be using it to save too much wine spoilage.

I’d be greatful if someone could comment on this…is it a liturgical abuse? Is table wine or fortified wine the norm in Americal masses?

Is this a liturgical abuse

Definitely, and it is probably invalid as well.

Altar wine should be obtained only from ecclesiastically-approved wine-makers.

 

[jbuck919]

Veritas41:

Yes it is. I’ve NEVER seen a priest do that, even in the seriously strange archdiocese I live in!

It was the universal practice at the Catholic chaplaincy when I was in college 30 years ago, and therefore I assume in other such places. If a new assistant chaplain came in and resisted it, he was told by the permanent chaplain that he had to put up with it because it was the local custom (meaning his original idea). Supposedly the rationale was that this doxology was a congregational thing in the early church. I don’t report this with approval; I just report it.

I remember in the early days of the N.O. a visiting priest in my parish invited everybody to turn to a page in the missalette for the newer Eucharistic Prayer if they wanted to “join” him. Of course, he meant “follow along,” but a bunch of people actually read it out loud with him. Fortunately, even they had the sense to stop when he got to the consecration.

 

[LilyM]

edrubbra2:

I have always thought that the wine used for Mass should not be adulterated with additives. In Australia, the priests invariably use fortified red wine, which is wine mixed with brandy. This would not have existed in the time of Jesus as distillation had not yet been discovered. Shouldn’t the wine used be table wine unadulterated with the many additives they put in wine these days. the fortified wine does not sour, so they may be using it to save too much wine spoilage.

I’d be greatful if someone could comment on this…is it a liturgical abuse? Is table wine or fortified wine the norm in Americal masses?

Is this a liturgical abuse

Fortified wine? hic Oh well, at least the bread always seems to be valid - thankfully free of yeast, sweetener, unwheat flours etc etc.

Don’t like the odds for all the poor celiacs out there though. Mind you wine isn’t given to the congregation that often in most of the churches I’ve been to.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

edrubbra2:

I have always thought that the wine used for Mass should not be adulterated with additives. In Australia, the priests invariably use fortified red wine, which is wine mixed with brandy. This would not have existed in the time of Jesus as distillation had not yet been discovered. Shouldn’t the wine used be table wine unadulterated with the many additives they put in wine these days. the fortified wine does not sour, so they may be using it to save too much wine spoilage.

I’d be greatful if someone could comment on this…is it a liturgical abuse? Is table wine or fortified wine the norm in Americal masses?

Is this a liturgical abuse

Wine with added natural alcohol may be allowed by the Bishops conference I believe. It cannot have any other additives. The content must remain between X% and Y%, for normal altar wine. Mustum is exempt from this.

 

[Ham1]

Most of the approved altar wine companies sell wine that is fortified with brandy. If you notice, most altar wine is sweet and yet still 15-18% alcohol. You can’t make wine like that by just fermenting grapes. Alcohol has to be added which stops the fermentation leaving residual sugar to make the wine sweet and also increasing the alcohol content of the wine. The alcohol added is brandy which is made from grapes anyway.