Who are the "Disciples" throughout John's Gospel

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I am just curious as to determine who the gospel of John is referring to when it says “the disciples” or “his disciples” throughout various points in the gospel. I wanted to determine when you would consider John is referring to the Apostles versus others in Jesus’ band of merry followers, especially after the point of the bread of life discourse. Any insights would be great.

Sincerely,

GS
 
Hi, GS!

Usually the context helps to determine when it is referring to the Twelve; sometimes it is actually emphasized (the Twelve).

Check chapter 6:

On verse 5 one is named (Phillip); on v8 Andrew; 13–twelve baskets were filled; v16 the disciples were still with Jesus (this implies that these were “full” time disciples); v22 & 24 his disciples (this implies a finite number which the crowds would easily recognize as Jesus’ Disciples); v41 refers to the crowd as “the Jews” this signifies a larger number of disciples or just people who follow Him; v61 &67 many disciples (not the inner circle of Twelve); v68 the Twelve; v69 &70 Simon speaks for the Twelve; v71 Jesus addresses the Twelve.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
That is understood in the passage. My main concern is addressing two principle points in scripture: where Jesus gave authority to those as His own (those who hear you, hear me) and the power of the Holy Spirit to forgive sins.

For instance, in Luke 10:16, Jesus addressed the 70 He sent out in pairs saying “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me…” and in John 20:22-24 when he gave authority to forgive sins to “the disciples” who were in hiding…

I guess one just has to take into account the entirety of the whole new testament, especially the Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline Letters as well as the Church Fathers and history in general to obtain a true grounding foundation of the reason why we believe in Apostolic Authority, Succession, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the deposit of Faith and Sacred Tradition.
 
Gwlstimler said:
I guess one just has to take into account the entirety of the whole new testament, especially the Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline Letters as well as the Church Fathers and history in general to obtain a true grounding foundation of the reason why we believe in Apostolic Authority, Succession, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the deposit of Faith and Sacred Tradition.
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Exactly!

Jesus did not Delegate His Authority to all; we find that there were only Twelve during the Lord’s Supper–one of them would not even remain in Office (yet, that Office was to be held by one that would have been with them from the beginning of Jesus’ Ministry–one that would not be mentioned by name as he was not part of the Twelve); then we must also see the development: Only Simon gets a name change (ok, Simon and Saul); only Simon is Commanded to take care of the Fold; at Pentecost only those with the Twelve are able to Receive the Holy Spirit–yet, even these remain silent as St. Peter and the Eleven (plus One) are actively involved in the directing of the Church… remove Church history from, well, Church history, and we have everyone interpreting what, when, how, and who according to their own fancy.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
There were only twelve apostles (prior to Paul’s conversion) but there were more than twelve disciples. The expression “the Twelve Disciples” refers to those who later became the Twelve Apostles, subject to certain doubts that have never been fully cleared up, such as whether Bartholomew and Nathanael are two different disciples or the same disciple known by two different names.
 
So you believe that Jesus delegate His Authority to anyone who claims Him as Lord?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
So you believe that Jesus delegate His Authority to anyone who claims Him as Lord?
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Is that question supposed to have something to do with that I posted? I don’t see the connection. I was replying to the OP’s question about the disciples and the apostles. He asked whether they were the same people or different people.
 
BartholomewB said:
Is that question supposed to have something to do with that I posted? I don’t see the connection. I was replying to the OP’s question about the disciples and the apostles. He asked whether they were the same people or different people.
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Sorry, I thought that you were intimating that we could not tell when Jesus was making statements that involved only the Twelve–some claim to have a multitude of platitudes when it comes to what was Delegated and to whom.

My apologies for reading the multitude agenda into your response.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Are there people who draw conclusions about “the delegation of authority” from such a slender premise as the fact that there were more disciples than apostles? I didn’t know that! Here at CAF I learn something new every day. Thank you!
 
Yeah… but it’s deeper than that.

It is an attempt to legitimize Protestantism–the intent is to claim that Jesus Delegated His Authority to all Believers so the Church has no legitimate claim to being the one Founded by Christ. I have been met with the passage about those who were not of the Fold and used Jesus’ Name to preach and perform miracles; since Jesus stated that they (His disciples) should not forbid them the use of His Name, they insinuate that the Church is everyone (meaning all “Believers” have equal access and authority).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Gwlstimler said:
I am just curious as to determine who the gospel of John is referring to when it says “the disciples” or “his disciples” throughout various points in the gospel. I wanted to determine when you would consider John is referring to the Apostles versus others in Jesus’ band of merry followers, especially after the point of the bread of life discourse. Any insights would be great.

Sincerely,

GS
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Sometimes it’s the 12 specifically, and other times it’s who ever is following Jesus at the time AND the 12…

At the end of the Bread of Life discourse, many of His disciples left Jesus. Then He turned to the 12 and asked are you going to leave me too?

Who were those other disciples? The day before Jesus gave the Bread of Life Discourse He was feeding the 5000. Many of THOSE who He fed, followed Jesus across the lake after they ate… to hear as Paul Harvey used to say, “the rest of the story”.
 
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Agathon said:
What of James the Just?
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I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking. Catholics are supposed to believe that James the Just and James the Less are the same person, in which case he was an apostle. Or was he Jesus’ “brother” (i.e. stepbrother or cousin) named in Matt 13:55 and Mark 6:3? If that’s who he was, then apparently he was never a disciple during Jesus’ earthly ministry, and was converted only when he saw the risen Jesus (1 Cor. 15:7). What is your view?
 
James the Just was a stepbrother of Jesus and also one of Christ’s 72 disciples who took over the leadership of the Jerusalem Church during the period when Peter and the Apostles left.
 
Agathon said:
James the Just was a stepbrother of Jesus and also one of Christ’s 72 disciples
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Like you, I’m inclined to the view that he was one of the stepbrothers. But this is the first I’ve heard that he was one of the seventy-two disciples in Luke 10:1-17. May I ask what source this is derived from? In the Gospels, the “brethren” — James, Jude, Joses/Joseph, and Simeon — are never named as disciples, are they?
 
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