Who are the Romans and Italians descendants of?

[Nanotwerp]

Since Italy is located in Europe, it would seem likely that the Romans and Italians would be Japhetites, but there are some sources that state they are Hamites? What is your take on the matter?

 

[arnoldoe]

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[triumphguy]

Originally they were Etruscans.
Since the Muslims invaded large parts of southern Italy there is bound to be Arabic blood.
The northern parts were invaded by Germanic tribes.

All kinds of peoples from north and south, invaded and settled.

 

[patrick457]

Originally they were Etruscans.
Since the Muslims invaded large parts of southern Italy there is bound to be Arabic blood.
The northern parts were invaded by Germanic tribes.

All kinds of peoples from north and south, invaded and settled.

The Romans were at first the Latins, one of the tribes that lived in the peninsula along with the Sabines, the Faliscans, the Samnites or the Umbrians, and the Etruscan people (who were their own civilization really). By the 4th century BC, the Latins of Rome started to expand their territory by subjugating the (other) Latins and the other Italic tribes. (Rome and the other Latin city-states originally formed this league, with Rome being the head of the confederation, but Rome became too powerful, which led to members of the league fighting against each other.)

The others put up resistance at first, but eventually all of them (Etruscans included) were assimilated to the Roman Republic.

 

[Cyberseeker]

Since Italy is located in Europe, it would seem likely that the Romans and Italians would be Japhetites, but there are some sources that state they are Hamites? What is your take on the matter?

A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since Japheth. Patrick’s map described the people of the 4th century BC who eventually became the ‘Romans.’ However Europe saw significant tribal movements during the dark ages when the Roman empire was starting to crumble. German tribes pushed down into the Italian peninsula, the most notable being Ostrogoths, Huns, Vandals, and Lombards.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but modern Italian people are Lombardi except down south where there are original Roman and Gothics. Im guessing they are all ‘Japhetic’ blood if we could go back that far? :idea:

 

[faithfulwannabe]

Who are far east Asians then? I hope they’re not Ham.

 

[patrick457]

A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since Japheth. Patrick’s map described the people of the 4th century BC who eventually became the ‘Romans.’ However Europe saw significant tribal movements during the dark ages when the Roman empire was starting to crumble. German tribes pushed down into the Italian peninsula, the most notable being Ostrogoths, Huns, Vandals, and Lombards.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but modern Italian people are Lombardi except down south where there are original Roman and Gothics. Im guessing they are all ‘Japhetic’ blood if we could go back that far? :idea:

Well, technically the Germanic tribes, the Italics, Greeks, Armenians and Indians all have the same ancestors - in terms of language (proto-Indo-European).

 

[patrick457]

Who are far east Asians then? I hope they’re not Ham.

Genesis 10 generally seems to identify Japheth as being the progenitor of the peoples of roughly what is now eastern Europe, the Aegean Sea, Anatolia and central Asia, the northernmost regions the ancient Israelites knew. Ham is identified as the progenitor of the peoples of the Levant and northeastern Africa, while Shem is claimed to be the ancestor of the peoples of Mesopotamia and the Arabian subcontinent. It only addresses those peoples and nations the ancient Israelites had some knowledge about - so you won’t find any reference to east Asia or southern Africa or the northernmost and westernmost parts of Europe, much less America or Australia.

 

[randomusername]

Italians are different to Romans. Italians have Arabic and Germanic influences that came after the fall of Rome.

 

[The_Serpent]

Who are far east Asians then? I hope they’re not Ham.

Josephus states that Joctan, a son of Heber settled the Cophen river, and Asia around it. Along with his sons, including a Jobab, perhaps the Job of the Biblical book.

 

[patrick457]

Josephus states that Joctan, a son of Heber settled the Cophen river, and Asia around it. Along with his sons, including a Jobab, perhaps the Job of the Biblical book.

Now Joctan, one of the sons of Heber, had these sons, Elmodad, Saleph, Asermoth, Jera, Adoram, Aizel, Decla, Ebal, Abimael, Sabeus, Ophir, Euilat, and Jobab. These inhabited from Cophen, an Indian river, and in part of Asia adjoining to it. And this shall suffice concerning the sons of Shem.

Heber of course being great-grandson of Shem. Kophen meanwhile is the River Kabul in the Hindu Kush (modern Afghanistan and Pakistan). You have to remember that in Josephus’ time, ‘Asia’ meant the area from Anatolia (Asia Minor, Asia Propria), up to Mesopotamia, Central Asia, the Indian subcontinent and at least part of China (Asia Maior). They only had a vague idea of the islands and peninsulas to the east of China. That Josephus has the sons of Joktan living near the Kabul and “in part of Asia adjoining to it” can lead one to infer that he imagined them occupying the area of what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan (and perhaps northwest India).

http://farrukhunplugged.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/map.gif

According to Genesis 10, the region where the sons of Joktan lived “stretched from Mesha toward Sephar, in the eastern hill country.” We don’t know where Mesha and Sephar are, though given how Joktan’s sons have names that possibly refer to locales and tribes located in south Arabia (modern Yemen and whereabouts), it is more likely that they refer to areas somewhere in the Arabian peninsula.