Who are the True Muslims?

[Julia_Mae]

This article in Vatican Insider:Pope’s visit helped reveal the deep desire of the Lebanese to live in peace has this statement, I thought was very interesting in terms of all the stories about violence and protests against the US:

Not only Christians but also many Muslims welcome his visit and his message that the different religious communities in this land can live together in peace and harmony.

“His visit and message is very important for all of us and for the whole region too. We all agree, even Hezbollah welcomes him”, Madame Nadia Daouk Sabra, a Muslim and wife of a former Lebanese minister and aunt of the Minister of Information”, told me shortly after the Pope had spoken.

“Lebanon is an example of civilization to the world, it shows that Muslims and Christians can live together, but this is a message that disturbs others, like those who have inspired the troubles in Tripoli”, she said.

She was referring to the burning of the KFC restaurant and protests – also some against the Pope’s visit - in the northern Lebanese city of Tripoli, in recent days, where one person was killed. The protests were sparked by the film “The Innocence of Muslims”, that has offended Muslims in many lands.

“The bearded ones of Tripoli are not true Muslims. I am a Muslim. My father went to Mecca twenty-two times. These people are not Muslims, they are terrorists in the name of Islam, and they are being paid by people in Saudi Arabia and Qatar”, Mohammad Anis Karddoura, a prominent Lebanese painter and sculptor, told me.

Madame Sabra, his friend, nodded in agreement. Others have told me this too in recent days.

“The Pope is right to speak out. Ignorance is dangerous. What they are doing is against the Arab identity. Christians and Muslims can live together in peace. The Lebanon shows this to the world. That message bothers them,” Karddoura added.

I thought this was interesting because I think as a culture, we have the impression that world domination and the forced spread of Islam is the Arab identity. I was wondering if anyone has more direct knowledge, any Muslims on this forum or people who have lived or visited extensively in the region would comment on true Islamic identity.

 

[The_Wizard]

Just remember that Muslims has no gualms about lying to an infidel in order to advance Islam. Also remember Christains are infidels because we are polytheist.

 

[robwar]

Islam has the Arab identity because the Koran is written in Arabic and translations are not considered the real Koran. To read the Koran, you are suppose to read it in Arabic only and not a translation into the vernacular. What many people don’t realize that for many middle eastern people, they may have the Koran memorized but in Arabic and many groups do not speak or have Arabic as their native language and do not truly know what it says or even means. Also, there are high illiteracy rates in the middle east so the Koran is talk in Arabic. That is why you see schools with children bobbing up and down. They may have Korans in front of them but it is in Arabic and they are just reciting memory verses in Arabic. Islam is very much tied up with the Arabic language and culture.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Just remember that Muslims has no gualms about lying to an infidel in order to advance Islam. Also remember Christains are infidels because we are polytheist.

How do you know Muslims have no qualms about lying to advance Islam? How would telling a lie like “we want to live in peace with Christians” advance Islam?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Islam is very much tied up with the Arabic language and culture.

Right, since it started in Arabia and united the tribes of the Arabian peninsula and the holy cities are located on the Arabian peninsula, that makes sense. How are radicals advancing violence against the US not consistent with Arab identity as this quote from the article states:

What they are doing is against the Arab identity.

 

[Hunter24]

This article in Vatican Insider:Pope’s visit helped reveal the deep desire of the Lebanese to live in peace has this statement, I thought was very interesting in terms of all the stories about violence and protests against the US:

I thought this was interesting because I think as a culture, we have the impression that world domination and the forced spread of Islam is the Arab identity. I was wondering if anyone has more direct knowledge, any Muslims on this forum or people who have lived or visited extensively in the region would comment on true Islamic identity.

True Muslems actually understand the concept of Jihad, unlike the terrorists who distort sand pervert it. There are 4 types of Jihad, one is gods war with satan, two have to deal with a personal battle with evil and sin, and only one pertains to actual armed conflict. not only that, this 4th type of Jihad is to DEFEND Islam, not spread it. Modern terrorists get this wrong and think killing infidels is defending Islam, and honestly only the common insurgent believes that, the ones in power are just using religion to legitimize their operations.

 

[IbnFiktur]

“Arabs” exist as a majority across a vast geographic region, from Morocco to Iraq. They live in incredibly different geographical, economic, and social settings… Indeed, they even speak mutually incomprehensible dialects of Arabic. The existence of an “Arab identity” is not a given thing. In a post-colonial world, many Arab nations are still coming to grips with what it means to have a national identity, let alone an overarching ethnic identity (Nasser’s 20th century attempt at Arab nationalism failed).

If this is true of the Arab world, it’s even more true of the Muslim world. Islam consists of a billion people spread across the globe. It has incredibly different manifestations culturally, politically, and theologically in all of those places. You can’t say that there is a single “Muslim identity.”

As for this:

Just remember that Muslims has no gualms about lying to an infidel in order to advance Islam. Also remember Christains are infidels because we are polytheist.

Simply ignore unqualified generalizations such as this. It is by no means true that all or most interpretations of Islam promote this understanding. The “lying” thing was thought up by a minority Shi’ite sect in the middle ages… Essentially, they permitted living their Shiism in private in order to escape persecution. Christians are viewed differently by many different Muslims.

So never give in to the temptation to generalize or point fingers. It will not help your understanding of Islam and will only darken your heart with fear and paranoia.

 

[muslims]

How do you know Muslims have no qualms about lying to advance Islam? How would telling a lie like “we want to live in peace with Christians” advance Islam?

easy don’t you know that the prophet of ISALM WAS LIVING IN ONE TOWN WITH THE jewish and Christians in peace and more, he dead(pbuh) and his arm was Mortgaged at a jewish neighbor , so live in peace was difficult ,may be it is but just in your opinion

 

[The_Wizard]

How do you know Muslims have no qualms about lying to advance Islam? How would telling a lie like “we want to live in peace with Christians” advance Islam?

One word “TAQIYYA”. The answer to the second question is obvious to the casual observer.

 

[mercytruth]

easy don’t you know that the prophet of ISALM WAS LIVING IN ONE TOWN WITH THE jewish and Christians in peace and more, he dead(pbuh) and his arm was Mortgaged at a jewish neighbor , so live in peace was difficult ,may be it is but just in your opinion

I wonder sometimes what changes might have been in the Koran if the uncle of the Prophet had lived longer. The Prophet’s wife, Khadija brought her husband to her cousin, Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza when Muhammad was first receiving revelations. He was a great encouragement to Muhammad.

This uncle of Muhammad was translating the Christian gospel into Hebrew at the time, so either he was a Christian who could read and write Hebrew, or a Jewish man who converted to the Christian faith.

When Waraqa died there was a cessation of revelations to the Prophet for awhile.

Al-Bukhari, Vol. I, Book I, chapter 3.

esinislam.com/Quran_And_Hadith/Sahih_Al_Bukhari_Hadith/Sahih_Al_Bukhari_Hadith_Book_1.htm

peace be to you

micah

 

[Izdaari]

From a non-Muslim PoV, does it matter? I’m no position to judge which Muslims are truest to Mohammed’s teachings. I have no quarrel with peaceful Muslims, and will happily welcome them as friends and neighbors, but want to do everything I can to discourage and defeat the violent, radical ones… and which of those groups are the True Muslims is of no concern to me. And while the extremists are no doubt in the minority, it may not be such a small minority as we may have thought. A well-connected former CIA analyst (I’m not at liberty to name him) says his staff estimated it may be something like 17% of Muslims worldwide.

 

[Julia_Mae]

True Muslems actually understand the concept of Jihad, unlike the terrorists who distort sand pervert it. There are 4 types of Jihad, one is gods war with satan, two have to deal with a personal battle with evil and sin, and only one pertains to actual armed conflict. not only that, this 4th type of Jihad is to DEFEND Islam, not spread it. Modern terrorists get this wrong and think killing infidels is defending Islam, and honestly only the common insurgent believes that, the ones in power are just using religion to legitimize their operations.

That’s interesting, I didn’t know there were 4 kinds of Jihad.

 

[Julia_Mae]

“Arabs” exist as a majority across a vast geographic region, from Morocco to Iraq. They live in incredibly different geographical, economic, and social settings… Indeed, they even speak mutually incomprehensible dialects of Arabic. The existence of an “Arab identity” is not a given thing. In a post-colonial world, many Arab nations are still coming to grips with what it means to have a national identity, let alone an overarching ethnic identity (Nasser’s 20th century attempt at Arab nationalism failed).

If this is true of the Arab world, it’s even more true of the Muslim world. Islam consists of a billion people spread across the globe. It has incredibly different manifestations culturally, politically, and theologically in all of those places. You can’t say that there is a single “Muslim identity.”

As for this:
Simply ignore unqualified generalizations such as this. It is by no means true that all or most interpretations of Islam promote this understanding. The “lying” thing was thought up by a minority Shi’ite sect in the middle ages… Essentially, they permitted living their Shiism in private in order to escape persecution. Christians are viewed differently by many different Muslims.

So never give in to the temptation to generalize or point fingers. It will not help your understanding of Islam and will only darken your heart with fear and paranoia.

This is an excellent post, I think. When we are afraid, I think we tend to want to find something to attack to stop whatever is scaring us. Then we want to identify an “enemy.” I also think there are those who would point fingers for their own purposes. I fear the Muslim peoples are lumping Americans together as enemy also.

But, in the OP is this statement by an Arab woman who seems to think there is something essentially Arab. Something that is opposed to violence. I wish I could ask her.

 

[Julia_Mae]

easy don’t you know that the prophet of ISALM WAS LIVING IN ONE TOWN WITH THE jewish and Christians in peace…

I did know that! I read it in a book a while back. I think it before he had his first visitaion from the angel. Or am I wrong?

and more, he dead(pbuh) and his arm was Mortgaged at a jewish neighbor , so live in peace was difficult ,may be it is but just in your opinion

I believe in peace. I believe people are smarter than warmongers give them credit for. I believe the way we live in peace is refuse to kill. Refuse to hate. Do you think we can live in peace?

 

[Julia_Mae]

One word “TAQIYYA”. The answer to the second question is obvious to the casual observer.

Well, I can see you are very much smarter than I, so you’ll have to spell it all out. Might be some dumb lurkers who’d like to know what you are on about also. Thanks.

 

[Julia_Mae]

From a non-Muslim PoV, does it matter?

It matters to me, because the more we understand and know about each other, the more we perceive one another as like instead of unlike. The more we can sympathize with the reaction against that ridiculous video that would just make an American roll their eyes. Or, if they love the art of film, toss their lunch.

Everyone born is beloved of God. If we were Christians in an Arabic country we’d say beloved of Allah, it’s the word we’d use in Mass, just like the… Melkites? I think, do.

 

[IbnFiktur]

Well, I can see you are very much smarter than I, so you’ll have to spell it all out. Might be some dumb lurkers who’d like to know what you are on about also. Thanks.

As i said in my previous post, I believe the poster you are responding to here is attaching a theological term used by minority Shia Muslims to escape persecution to imply that all Muslims are willing to lie to “infiltrate” Western society. As I mentioned before, I believe said poster has latched onto an anti-Islamic talking point and does not understand the nuance of the term or how little the concept actually matters in the vast majority of Muslim sects, and certainly to the vast majority of average Muslim folks.

So again I implore you to pay no mind to paranoia spawned from unqualified generalization.

 

[IbnFiktur]

But, in the OP is this statement by an Arab woman who seems to think there is something essentially Arab. Something that is opposed to violence. I wish I could ask her.

I truly admire your desire to learn ABOUT people by TALKING to those people

The point I’m getting at, however, is that if you ask 10 Arabs what it means to be Arab, you’ll get 11 different answers It is a truly diverse group of people, united perhaps by a common (though only loosely organized and internally diverse) religion and language, which again is often mutually incomprehensible. On top of that, not all Arabs are Muslims, not all Arab Muslims are Sunni, and not all Arab Muslim Sunnis follow their religion in the same way.

 

[Nabooru]

CAF, defending a Muslim’s entry into heaven while hemming and hawwing about whether or not any of them will get there .

A Muslim, extreme or not, does not have the salvific grace of Christ, having rejected it. In that sense, they are no different from any other Christian religion. That doesn’t mean we should attack them as infidels. It does mean we should evangelize them in order to bring them to Jesus. If they deny still, we must live with them in peace and mutual respect, but never forget that their eternal life is in jeopardy.

 

[Mystophilus]

I thought this was interesting because I think as a culture, we have the impression that world domination and the forced spread of Islam is the Arab identity. I was wondering if anyone has more direct knowledge, any Muslims on this forum or people who have lived or visited extensively in the region would comment on true Islamic identity.

I have some Iranian friends whose first response to anything like this is point out that Arab ethnicity is quite distinct from Muslim faith. They have delivered some pretty impressive rants against the value of Arab culture as compared with Persian.

I would also add that most answers to the question “Who are the True X?” boil down to “The ones who agree with my presumptions.”