Who are the True Muslims?

[Mystophilus]

But, in the OP is this statement by an Arab woman who seems to think there is something essentially Arab. Something that is opposed to violence. I wish I could ask her.

Is there not a mosque anywhere near you? I have found Muslims to be very willing to discuss their faith, not least in the hope of converting one of us poor, lost giaours.

 

[IbnFiktur]

I would also add that most answers to the question “Who are the True X?” boil down to “The ones who agree with my presumptions.”

^this

 

[Izdaari]

It matters to me, because the more we understand and know about each other, the more we perceive one another as like instead of unlike. The more we can sympathize with the reaction against that ridiculous video that would just make an American roll their eyes. Or, if they love the art of film, toss their lunch.

Everyone born is beloved of God. If we were Christians in an Arabic country we’d say beloved of Allah, it’s the word we’d use in Mass, just like the… Melkites? I think, do.

That’s not really what I was getting at though. I agree it’s better to understand and know more about each other, and that God loves us all. But I don’t think it’s helpful or appropriate for me, as a outsider, to try to judge which Muslims are the Real Ones. Or necessary. I want to make friends with Muslims who are peaceful, and to protect myself against the ones who aren’t. To that end, I don’t have to decide which Muslims are “true to Islam”, I just need to decide which ones are peaceful. I’m for the ones who are peaceful, even if it means they’re heretical or apostate from a “True Muslim” PoV. And I’m not saying that’s the case; I’m just saying, either way, it isn’t what I’m worried about.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

How do you know Muslims have no qualms about lying to advance Islam? How would telling a lie like “we want to live in peace with Christians” advance Islam?

I think he was trying to hit at the reality that for all the violence done to christians and jews throughout the middle east and other countries with considerable muslim populations, there is no backlash. The majority of muslims remain silent on the evils committed on behalf of their religion and their God. Their silence is just as damning as their support. If they truly seek peace they need to denounce the perpetrators of violence in the name of Islam. Sadly the majority do not do this. They remain quiet, giving silent pardon to the spread of Islam by force.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I think he was trying to hit at the reality that for all the violence done to christians and jews throughout the middle east and other countries with considerable muslim populations, there is no backlash. The majority of muslims remain silent on the evils committed on behalf of their religion and their God. Their silence is just as damning as their support. If they truly seek peace they need to denounce the perpetrators of violence in the name of Islam. Sadly the majority do not do this. They remain quiet, giving silent pardon to the spread of Islam by force.

The lynching of a black man in the South with the silent approval of the majority is still within living memory. Last I checked, those Americans who fully agree with the Church in regards to abortion are in the minority. Your above applies to every society and culture, not just Arabic or Islamic ones.

 

[Julia_Mae]

The point I’m getting at, however, is that if you ask 10 Arabs what it means to be Arab, you’ll get 11 different answers It is a truly diverse group of people, united perhaps by a common (though only loosely organized and internally diverse) religion and language, which again is often mutually incomprehensible. On top of that, not all Arabs are Muslims, not all Arab Muslims are Sunni, and not all Arab Muslim Sunnis follow their religion in the same way.

I think we get the same response from 10 different Americans, too. And the average American probably couldn’t tell you the difference between a Shiite Muslim and a Sunni Muslim for a winning lottery ticket. I can’t. I have a kind of vague idea, but not more.

But one guy in a thread here said the people protesting the video really weren’t because they live in hovels and don’t have internet. I’m sure he really believes this.

Okay, so now we are WAY past a bit of cultural ignorance and into fantasy land. And we are approaching the instability of the Cuban blockade in terms of world war.

How are we not identifying with the fact that our leaders kept us in the dark and fed us cow dung to get us behind an invasion that was entirely unwarranted and not think maybe that’s what’s happening to them, too? Qui bono?

I think the real Muslims are pretty much just like me.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I have some Iranian friends whose first response to anything like this is point out that Arab ethnicity is quite distinct from Muslim faith.

Well, that would be right to the point. Do you have some recollection of what they thought “Arab ethnicity” consisted of as opposed to religious identity?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Is there not a mosque anywhere near you?.

LOL! There’s only one Protestant church in my town. THREE Catholic churches though.

It’s a really small town.

But that wouldn’t be very useful because it would be about me. If some Muslim folks would post and talk, then it would be available on a big internet forum and the hovel guy might learn something.

Me, personally, I think if you are not actively trying to do someone harm and aren’t torturing fuzzy creatures in your basement, you are fine with me. We have politics and religion all smooshed together again and it’s like trying to juggle balls of nitro while logrolling. I also think God cares a lot less about which church you go to or what word you use for Him than He does how you treat everyone else. In fact, I don’t think He cares at all about the first as long as you get the second right.

 

[Julia_Mae]

That’s not really what I was getting at though. I agree it’s better to understand and know more about each other, and that God loves us all. But I don’t think it’s helpful or appropriate for me, as a outsider, to try to judge which Muslims are the Real Ones. Or necessary. I want to make friends with Muslims who are peaceful, and to protect myself against the ones who aren’t. To that end, I don’t have to decide which Muslims are “true to Islam”, I just need to decide which ones are peaceful. I’m for the ones who are peaceful, even if it means they’re heretical or apostate from a “True Muslim” PoV. And I’m not saying that’s the case; I’m just saying, either way, it isn’t what I’m worried about.

I agree. The thread title came from the article. To me, it’s like saying “who is a true Christian?” My question is: how are we perceiving people who are being more and more presented to us as “enemy” and how can we not dehumanize them into something it’s okay to hate or annihilate? I really think God would like it if we didn’t do that.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think he was trying to hit at the reality that for all the violence done to christians and jews throughout the middle east and other countries with considerable muslim populations, there is no backlash. The majority of muslims remain silent on the evils committed on behalf of their religion and their God. Their silence is just as damning as their support. If they truly seek peace they need to denounce the perpetrators of violence in the name of Islam. Sadly the majority do not do this. They remain quiet, giving silent pardon to the spread of Islam by force.

Where do you think these people can protest “evils committed on behalf of their religion” without being imprisoned or killed? What makes you think they don’t if they can? Do you read these languages, their message boards?

I protested our evil war and our concentration camp and so did a lot of others. Think anyone over there heard about it? They are being told we murdered their women and children in the name of Christianity. Did we?

Evil is committed on behalf of serving the agendas of those who want power. People who are the ones fighting and dying are impelled to, manipulated to do so, lied to. We were lied to. What makes anyone think our counterparts are not lied to?

There’s a Muslim guy around here upset because no one ever attacks Jesus, just Mohammed. * South Park*, anyone? We live in ignorance of one another because it serves the agendas of those who want us at each other’s throats.

 

[robwar]

I am not sure if you can say who is a real Muslim any more than who is a real Christian. the Arab identity is different than Islamic identity. You can be an Arab and not a muslim but Islam is very tied up with an “Arab” identity. The middle east is a complex mixture of alot of different people and languages and not all is Arabic. I think the Pope did not want the violence blamed on Arabs per say and wanted the focus to be on those promoting the violence.

 

[Mystophilus]

Me, personally, I think if you are not actively trying to do someone harm and aren’t torturing fuzzy creatures in your basement, you are fine with me. We have politics and religion all smooshed together again and it’s like trying to juggle balls of nitro while logrolling. I also think God cares a lot less about which church you go to or what word you use for Him than He does how you treat everyone else. In fact, I don’t think He cares at all about the first as long as you get the second right.

I feel it only fair to warn you that these are clearly heretical ideas of the most extreme kind, and I know this because I agree with you completely.

 

[Mystophilus]

Well, that would be right to the point. Do you have some recollection of what they thought “Arab ethnicity” consisted of as opposed to religious identity?

The whole bit: biological ancestry, language, customs, (non-metaphysical) beliefs. They talk about Arab culture as an aggressively-colonising force in much the same way that Western culture has been in many parts of the world.

I just found something which might be of interest: persiansarenotarabs.com/