Who are the TWO WITNESSES of Revelation chapter 11?

[Vouthon]

*Revelation 11:3-4
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and **the two candlesticks **standing before the God of the earth. (KJV)

Zechariah 4:11-14
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. (KJV*

Who are they? Are they literally the return of Elijah or Enoch? Are they two people who are spiritually the return of Elijah and Enoch or Moses and Elijah?

Although the Great Monarch and the Holy Pontiff have no basis in official Catholic dogma - being the stuff of private revelation which may or may not be true - could the Two Witnesses actually be the Great Monarch and Holy Pontiff?

I note that although they are mentioned as opposing the “Beast”, am I not right in stating that the beast coming out of the sea is actually introduced later, meaning that the Two Witnesses may come before the Antichrist? It also states that: 11-14 “The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon”.

What are the “woes”?

 

[ckempston]

Doesn’t the 3rd Temple need to be built before we need to worry about who the two witnesses are? With reference to Zechariah, it would seem to be a Jewish ruler and a Jewish High Priest, because that’s who the two olive trees are Zerubbabel and Jeshua.

 

[GKCT]

The two witnesses symbolize lamentation and repentance and cannot be readily identified. They may represent Moses and Elijah, or the Law and the Prophets, or Peter and Paul. Most likely they refer to the universal church, especially the Christian martyrs, fulfilling the office of witness.
This is taken from the St. Joseph Edition of the New American Bible.

 

[DaveBj]

Any answers you get to this question are going to be speculations and guesses, to which everyone is entitled. Tops on my list of guesses are Enoch and Elijah, the only two OT characters who did not die, and who must die to fulfill the scripture that it is appointed to every [wo]man to die. Or, if that verse is not to be taken absolutely literally, then second place on my list is Moses and Elijah, who appeared talking to Jesus on Mt. Tabor.

DaveBj

 

[Verbum]

Hi Vouthon,

The footnotes of La Bible de Jérusalem, identify the two witnesses or olive trees originally as Josuah and Zorobabel, the two chiefs of the return to Israel, Josuah from Egypt and Zorobabel from Babylon. The notes add that here they probably symbolize Peter and Paul, the builders of the New Temple, which is the Church.

Verbum

 

[centurionguard]

Any answers you get to this question are going to be speculations and guesses, to which everyone is entitled. Tops on my list of guesses are Enoch and Elijah, the only two OT characters who did not die, and who must die to fulfill the scripture that it is appointed to every [wo]man to die. Or, if that verse is not to be taken absolutely literally, then second place on my list is Moses and Elijah, who appeared talking to Jesus on Mt. Tabor.

DaveBj

I too would concur in strong guesstimate that the two Witnesses would be Enoch and Elijah also.

If the Catholic Church be compared to an army drawn out in battle array (Cant. 6:9), we have reason to believe that Jesus Christ, its Captain would reserve the best soldiers to withstand the most terrible shock on the Church. But people who humbly know and and serve the true living God shall be victorious. God shall send teachers to instruct his people; they shall rush into the midst of fire and sword; they will be prisoners and their possessions will be confiscated; some of those teachers shall be cast into a fiery furnace, there to be purified. (Daniel 11:32 etc).

Not only the saints but also angels will hasten to the standard of the cross and aid the Church in the last days of her great tribulation; Saint Micheal the Archangel shall rise and engage in furious combat against the “dragon unchained”. (Apoc. 12:7). Finally; God shall prepare a safe retreat for His faithful children in the desert (Apoc. 12:14), which means that God will not allow the demons, all-powerful as they will be, to reveal to the emissaries of Anti-Christ the hiding places of the great number of Christians, who though faithful to God, yet have not the courage enough to confront the enemy or brave the dangers of so terrible a persecution. All this aid will certainly be greater and more abundant in the last struggle of the people of God, though quite the same in all ages of the Catholic Church; for God directs all things by His benign Providence, and He will send Elias and Elias and Enoch to aid and sustain His spouse in her last trying ordeal.

It is certain in Scripture that neither Elias nor Enoch are dead. It is written, Enoch walked with God and disappeared (Gen. 5:22-24). Enoch, according to the wise man, was pleasing to God, who placed him in paradise. (Ecclesiasticus 44:16). And Saint Paul says that Enoch was removed, that he might not see death. (Heb. 11:5). The Scripture is still more explicit relative to Elias. He is said to have been walking in the company with Eliseus on the banks of the Jordon when he was carried off in a fiery chariot to heaven. (Kings 2:11). Eccelsiasticus (48:9) and (Machabees Book 1 Chap 2:58) allude to the same fact. All the Fathers of the Church are in perfect accord on this point and teach it as an apostolic tradition: eg. quoting St. Ireneus (Lib. 4, c30). The disciples of the Apostles say that those who were carried off from this world otherwise than by death, were placed in a terrestrial paradise and that they will remain until the end of the world in an incorruptible state. Theologians assign many reasons for this signal favor.

To deny that Elias and Enoch will return in person would be, according to the late Blessed Cardinal Bellarmine and late Catholic theologian Francisco Suárez, if not heterodoxy, at least erroneous. Their coming is announced by Sacred Scripture in four different places. The prophet (Malachias 4:5) says; “I will send you Elias the prophet before the coming of the Great Day of Tribulation of the Lord, and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers”. Again in Ecclesiasticus (48:10) it is said that Elias was predestined in the judgments of the times to appease the great Wrath of the Lord, reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and restore the tribes of Jacob (conversion of the Jews to Christianity) Finally; we read in the Gospel according to Saint matthew (17:11), Elias indeed shall come and restore all things.

In the infancy of the Church’s early history, St. Peter and St. Paul received, individually, a special mission, though not exclussively so; St. peter was destined to evagelize the Jews, and St. Paul became the Apostle of the Gentiles. (Gal. 1:16). In the latter times of this world, two new Apostles will devide between them the work of evangelizing the world. Enoch will preach to the Gentiles, whose faith and charity he will stir up and revive (Ecclesiasticus 44:16), while Elias, Jew by birth will be charged with the conversion of the Jews. (Ecclesiasticus 48:10).

It should be taken to note that Saint Augustine and Saint Gregory the Great do not hesitate to affirm that the Conversion of the Jews in the end days is a truth of divine faith.

Here’s an excellent book by Tan Books that’s well worth the read: catholichome.com/scripts/detail.asp?catalognumber=TBHAC

Peace
Chris

 

[_L]

Now correct me if I am wrong, but has not Elijah already come again? Jesus said this concerning John the Baptist.

Matthew 17:12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.

 

[AndrewA]

Now correct me if I am wrong, but has not Elijah already come again? Jesus said this concerning John the Baptist.

Matthew 17:12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.

I don’t think it is a common belief that John the Baptist was a re-incarnation of Elijah.

 

[DaveBj]

Now correct me if I am wrong, but has not Elijah already come again? Jesus said this concerning John the Baptist.

Matthew 17:12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.

JtB was certainly, as Jesus attested, the Elijah-like figure that fulfilled the Malachi’s prophecy, but he worked alone, and that does not fulfill John’s subsequent prophecy of two witnesses working together.

 

[Fidelis]

From the Navarre Bible Commentary on this passage:

From: Revelation 11:4-12

The Death and Resurrection of the Two Witnesses (Continuation)
--------------------------------------------------------------
[4] These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth. [5] And if any one would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes; if any one would harm them, thus he is doomed to be killed. [6] They have power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. [7] And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will make war upon them and conquer them and kill them, [8] and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. [9] For three days and a half men from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, [10] and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. [11] But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. [12] Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up hither!” And in the sight of their foes they went up to heaven in a cloud.

---

Commentary:

3-6. The period of tribulation coincides with the length of time the two witnesses prophesy. They call people to penance (symbolized by their use of sackcloth). God protects them in a very special way; and yet he does not spare them death or suffering; in the end, however, they will be glorified in heaven. In the Apocalypse the identity of the two witnesses is not given; they are referred to as “olive trees” --the same language as used of Zerubbabel, a prince of the line of David, and Joshua, the high priest (cf. Zech 3:3-14). But they are assigned features of Elijah, who brought about a drought (cf. 1 Kings 17:1-3; 18:1), and Moses, who turned the Nile to blood (cf. Ex 7:14- 16). The enemies of Elijah and Moses were also devoured by fire from heaven (cf. 2 Kings 1 :10; Num 16:35). However, because the two witnesses testify to Jesus Christ and die martyrs, tradition identifies them with St Peter and St Paul, who suffered martyrdom in Rome, the city which the Book of Revelation later mentions symbolically. Some early commentators (e.g. Ticonius and St Bede) saw the two witnesses as standing for the Old and New Testaments; but this interpretation has had little following. St Jerome (“Epist.” 59) says that they are Elijah and Enoch, and St Gregory the Great and others give that interpretation (“Moralia”, 9, 4).

What St John is doing is using a theme which occurs fairly frequently in apocalyptic writings where Elijah and Enoch or other combinations of prominent figures are portrayed as opponents of antichrist. His two witnesses do have features of Elijah and Moses, both of whom bore witness to Christ at the Transfiguration (cf. Mt 17:1-8 and par.). However, the duration of the trial they undergo, and the entire context of the passage, point rather to them standing for the prophetic witness of the Church, symbolized by certain more outstanding witnesses, who were present at the death of Christ, which took place in Jerusalem, and who were also witnesses of his glorious resurrection. However, it is the entire Church, right through the course of its history, that has been given the prophetic role of calling men to repentance in the midst of harassment and hostility: “The holy People of God shares also in Christ’s prophetic office: it spreads a broad and living witness to him, especially by a life of faith and love and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the fruit of lips praising his name (cf. Heb 13:15)” (Vatican II, “Lumen Gentium”, 12). “The Church announces the good tidings of salvation …] , so that all men may believe the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent and may be converted from their ways, doing penance (cf. Jn 17:3; Lk 24:27; Acts 2:38)” (Vatican II, “Sacrosanctum Concilium”, 9).

Continued on the next post…

 

[Fidelis]

7-10. The prophet Daniel used four beasts to symbolize the empires of the world as enemies of the people of Israel. In the Apocalypse the beast stands for the enemy of the Church and the enemy of God. Further on it will develop this theme and link the beasts to the dragon or Satan (cf. 13:2), and describe their defeat by Christ, the Lamb of God (cf. 14:1; 19:19-21).

The symbol of the beast is brought forward in this passage to show that there will be a point, or various points, before the End when the forces of evil will apparently win victory. Martyrdom silences the voices of the witnesses of Jesus Christ who preach repentance; many will rejoice over this and even deride those whose words or actions they find uncomfortable, despite the fact that when a Christian bears witness to the salvation that comes from Jesus he is motivated purely by love. “Since Jesus, the Son of God, showed his love by laying down his life for us, no one has greater love than he who lays down his life for him and for his brothers (cf. 1 Jn 3:16; Jn 15:13). Some Christians have been called from the beginning, and will always be called, to give this greatest testimony of love to all, especially to persecutors. Martyrdom makes the disciple like his Master, who willingly accepted death for the salvation of the world, and through it he is conformed to Him by the shedding of blood. Therefore the Church considers it the highest gift and supreme test of love. And while it is given to few, all however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the cross amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks” (“Lumen Gentium”, 42).

“The great city”, whose name is not given, seems to be Jerusalem, which in Isaiah 1:10 is called Sodom because it has turned its back on God. However, when the writer tells us that it is “allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified” (v. 8), we may take Jerusalem here to stand for any city or even any nation where perversity holds sway (cf. Wis 19:14-17, which alludes to Sodom and Egypt) and where Christians are persecuted and hunted down (cf. Acts 9:5). Thus, St Jerome (“Epist.” 17) interpreted the names of Sodom and Egypt as having a mystical or figurative meaning, referring to the entire world seen as the city of the devil and of evildoers.

Further on, St John will identify the Rome of his time with this “great city” (cf. 17:9).

Evil will triumph for only a limited period. Its reign is fixed to last “three days and a half”, to show its brevity and temporary character as compared with the one thousand two hundred and sixty days (three years and a half) for which the prophetic witness endures (cf. note on 11: 1-2).

11-13. Those who have given their lives to bear witness to Jesus will also, through the power of the Holy Spirit, share in his resurrection and ascension into heaven. The writer describes this by various references to the Old Testament, references rich in meaning. The breath of life which causes the witnesses to stand up, that is, to be resurrected, reveals the power of the Spirit of God, which is also described by the prophet Ezekiel in his vision of the dry bones which become living warriors (cf. Ezek 37:1-14). The voice which calls them up to heaven reminds us of what happened to Elijah at the end of his life (cf. 2 Kings 2:11), and to certain other Old Testament saints like Enoch (cf. Gen 5:24; Sir 44:16); according to certain Jewish traditions (cf. Flavius Josephus, “Jewish Antiquities”, IV, 8, 48), all of these men were carried up into heaven at the end of their days on earth.

The exaltation of the witnesses is in sharp contrast with the punishment meted out to their enemies, a punishment designed to move men to conversion. The earthquake indicates that the chastisement is sudden and unexpected; the number of those who die symbolizes a great crowd (thousands) embracing all types (seven).

The prophecy of the two witnesses is a call to the Christian to bear witness to Christ in the midst of persecution, even to the point of martyrdom. It makes it quite clear that God does not abandon those who boldly take his side. If the prophets of the Old Testament suffered martyrdom, the same will happen in the new, only more so: the messianic times have begun, persecution will grow in strength, but the end of the world is approaching.

 

[Fidelis]

The 1859 Haydock Commentary (based on the DRV) has this to say:

Ver. 3. My two witnesses…shall prophesy twelve hundred and sixty days. It is a very common interpretation, that by these two witnesses must be understood Henoch[Enoch] and Elias[Elijah], who are to come before the end of the world. It is true this is what we read in several of the ancient Fathers, insomuch, that Dr. Wells, in his paraphrase, calls it the “consent of the primitive fathers,” and in his notes says, it is of “unexceptionable authority.” This opinion (at least as to Elias) is grounded on those words of the prophet Malachy, (Malachias iv. 5.) behold, I will send you Elias, the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord; and also on the words of our Saviour, Christ, (Matthew xvii. 11.) where he tells his disciples: Elias indeed shall come, and restore all things. But I cannot say that the consent of the fathers is so unanimous as to Henoch: for we find by St. Hilary, that some thought Jeremy[Jeremiah] was to come with Elias, and he himself thought that with Elias would come Moses. See his commentary on Matt., p. 710, Nov. edit. Secondly, allowing it a received opinion that Henoch and Elias are again to come before the day of judgment, yet it is not the constant doctrine of the ancient fathers, that by these two witnesses in this place of the Apocalypse, must be understood Henoch and Elias. St. Cyprian expounds it of two sorts of martyrs for the Catholic faith; to wit, they who suffer death, and others who only suffered imprisonment, loss of goods, and the like. Others expound it of the testimonies concerning Christ and his Church, of which some are in the Old Testament, some in the New. To these we must join all those interpreters who expound all the visions and predictions in the Apocalypse, till the 20th chapter, of the persecutions raised by the Jews: or by the heathens against the Church, which have already happened. Of these, both as to ancient fathers and later interpreters, see Alcazar in his Prologomena, note 6, p. 33, and note 12, p. 48. (Witham) — Two witnesses. It is commonly understood of Henoch and Elias. (Challoner)

Ver. 4. These are the two olive-trees, flourishing with works of piety and mercy, and the two candlesticks shining with faith and good works. (Witham)

Ver. 5. And if any man would hurt them, &c. These two verses seem to signify both the miracles which God many times wrought by the prayers of his martyrs, as he had done formerly in the time of Elias[Elijah] and the exemplary punishments with which from time to time he chastised those by whom they were persecuted, and that he will do the like by Henoch[Enoch] and Elias, when they shall come. (Witham) — In this and the following verse are expressed the miraculous powers with which the two witnesses will be invested. These powers will be necessary to enable them to prove the truth of their doctrine. Every messenger who appears with a commission from God, is always furnished with means to prove it. Thus our Saviour and his apostles worked miracles in testimony of the Christian religion. And in the Old Testament, Elias convicted the false prophets by a miracle. See 3 Kings xviii. Every new teacher consequently, who comes destitute of this sanction, can claim no credit, but is only to be considered as an imposter. (Pastorini)

Ver. 7. The beast, &c. God, for the greater good and glory of his servants, permits the devil by antichrist, and such like instruments, to torment them, and put them to death; and yet by dying they conquer, to the eternal confusion of their persecutors, who shall behold them going up to heaven, to be there happy with God in his kingdom for ever. (Witham) — Antichrist, impelled by Satan, shall kill them. (Pastorini)

Ver. 8. Their bodies shall lie in the streets. It is what has often happened to the bodies of the martyrs, and may happen to Henoch[Enoch] and Elias[Elijah], for three days and a half, for a short time. — The great city. Some understand any city where Christians are persecuted. Others by the following words, where also their Lord was crucified, will needs have to be understood Jerusalem, which they hold shall be rebuilt in the time of antichrist, and where by him shall be put to death Henoch and Elias. But others think it may be expounded of heathen Rome, which in a mystical sense might be called Sodom for its infamous crimes, and Egypt for its idolatries and superstitions, where Christ might be said to be crucified, not as to himself, but in his members, according to what he himself said, Matthew xxv. 40., “inasmuch as you did it to one of these, my least brethren, you did it to me.” (Witham) — City; Jerusalem, which it is supposed will be the residence of antichrist, and filled with a great concourse of people. (Menochius)

Ver. 10. The inhabitants of the earth shall rejoice, &c. The persecutors rejoice and make merry for a while, when they seem to get the better of the Christians. Dioclesian caused pillars to be erected to him, as if he had destroyed the Christian religion; and when, by his cruelties he saw the faith of Christ, still increase more and more, he fell into a kind of madness, and laid down his empire. See Baron.[Baronius] ad an. Dni. 304[A.D. 304], p. 771. (Witham)

Ver. 11. The spirit of life from God entered into them, &c. It is an allusion to a vision in the prophet Ezechiel, Ezechiel xxxvii. (Witham)

 

[ivebeenshown]

Hello, I think it is very important to consider the ‘two witnesses’ within the context of the book of Revelation itself.

In Revelation 1-3, we have letters to the seven churches of Asia, described as ‘candlesticks’. Of those seven churches, two of them – Smyrna and Philadelphia – are not rebuked in any way, in fact they are told to hang in there and keep it up.

Interestingly, Smyrna means ‘myrrh’ (as in prayer incense, maybe) and Philadelphia means ‘brotherly love’. Anyways, the two witnesses are ‘the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord’. The two olive trees is a reference to Zechariah, which is a picture of Zerubbabel and Joshua. These two had the offices of King and Priest, repectively. They fed the lampstand with seven lamps on it, with oil.

These two candlesticks, Smyrna and Philadelphia, are fed oil by the King and Priest (two olive branches) Jesus Christ.

This is my view of that symbolism.

Peace

 

[ryanoneil]

The two witnesses are symbols for the Law and the Prophets personified by Moses and Elijah. They are symbolic of the covenantal transition from old to new. As long as the Temple stood, the Mosaic system gave voice to the Law and Prophets. They witnessed against the paganism of both Romans and the unfaithful Jews. The Law and the Prophets were killed by the beast (Rome) when biblical Judaism was destroyed in 70 A.D. But the world was wrong to think that God’s Truth could be silenced by war. In the fraction of the time it had taken to silence the Old Covenant, the Law and the Prophets were promoted to a heavenly city in the New Covenant. The Law and Prophets came back to life in Christ to bear witness to God’s undefeated Truth. Christ’s Church uses the Law and Prophets to show Christ is found in the Old Testatment.

Please realize that the Old Covenant age didn’t end for all the world to see, when the New Covenant was ratified on the Cross. There was time given for God’s faithful remnant to exodus out of the collapsing Old Covenant Age.

**Jesus left the temple area and was going away, when his disciples approached him to point out the temple buildings. He said to them in reply, “You see all these things, do you not? Amen, I say to you, there will not be left here a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down.” As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Mt 24:1-3)

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. (Mt 24:34)**

 

[Vouthon]

Fascinating! Basically everybody has there own opinions and nobody really knows!

 

[DaveBj]

Fascinating! Basically everybody has there own opinions and nobody really knows!

There you have it. Welcome to amateur Catholic (or Christian) theology!

 

[Jerry-Jet]

More Early Church Fathers proposed Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses than any other pair though Moses does get some support also.

 

[ryanoneil]

More Early Church Fathers proposed Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses than any other pair though Moses does get some support also.

I agree but favor Moses over Enoch, because the powers to turn water into blood and smite the land with every plague recall a high point in Moses’ career.

 

[Warrior1979]

More Early Church Fathers proposed Enoch and Elijah as the two witnesses than any other pair though Moses does get some support also.

The best explanation I’ve seen favor Elijah and Moses.

• Enoch seems to be excluded because he appears to be a man holy enough to be assumed into heaven.
• Elijah wasn’t taken from the earth for his holiness, and will come back to earth to preach and suffer physical death.
• Moses never entered the Holy Land, as promised. Being one of the witnesses would fulfill this promise.

Granted, the sources are protestant, so take it for what it is worth, but is seems reasonable.

 

[Jkimbo]

Could they not be the Catholic and Orthodox Church? How beautiful would that be