"Who are you to judge...?"

[Nino]

I like to tell these clowns how at parents nite I would then .using their phony logic…mr and mrs smith…dont worry …on friday evening when a bald headed teen wearing a leather jacket with a nazi swastika on the back and on his bike…comes to take your daughter out for a date…just hand him a few bucks…ask him to try and bring her back in a week and then go back to the couch…yeh sure…what a cute way to get outta jury duty…hey , I dont judge…so I can not be forced to serve on a jury…the ruleing class loves this garbage.they judge all the time…anyone who sees thru their gnostic new age nonsense is called in a shrill voice…a right wing fundamentalist kook…golly the names they call us…the dysfunctional never worked for a living corporate clones…amen and amen…Jesus and Mary…support us in this hour of our need…Nino

 

[anthony022071]

i am always perplexed when someone ask my opinion and then gets offended. i don’t go around giving my opinion unasked.

i’ve also been accused of being judgmental when i have said nothing. an example…i went through a period when i wore only dresses. this was my choice and i certainly didn’t try and make other women do so. i didn’t even discuss this with anyone but my hubby.

one day a woman from my church approached me and angrily began to explain why she wore shorts and tank tops. she informed me that no one had the right to judge her…um…okay… i didn’t even had a negative impression of her, until that moment.

She was reading your hidden thoughts!

The best defense is a good offense.

 

[Cat]

I try to choose my battles carefully. Always ask, “Am I willing to die on this hill?”

E.g., I will always argue against abortion. But I don’t always speak out against homosexual sex (especially since we can be fired at my workplace for being “intolerant”). I don’t argue about the war much, or about politics. But I will argue in favor of chastity.

One topic that I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut on is divorce. Always, even from Christians, the retort is, “Until you’ve been through it yourself, you have no right to make any comments.”

I suppose so. Maybe that attitude is why they got the divorce. OOPS, I spoke out. Sorry, everyone.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

One topic that I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut on is divorce. Always, even from Christians, the retort is, “Until you’ve been through it yourself, you have no right to make any comments.”

I suppose so. Maybe that attitude is why they got the divorce. OOPS, I spoke out. Sorry, everyone.

---

Please tell me you aren’t judging those who are divorced are you? That’s the kind of attitude that makes me feel unwelcome at church, even though I was the daily Massgoer in my marriage. No one who has actually been through it can possibly be in favor of it! And unless you have been, you can’t comment. (And that attitude is NOT why I’m divorced!)

Is it better to stay till someone drives you insane, or beats you to a pulp, or till your kids run away? Or put up with serial adultery from a spouse?

 

[Miserissima]

“who are you to judge…?”
“I am a man with sufficient intelligence to survive 36 years in a world that has been trying to kill me the entire time. What we are discussing is not rocket science and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the right and wrong here.”

Personally, I would take the focus away from who “I” am. I would talk about what gives me the right to judge. For example, if we were discussing a sensitive topic such as in vitro and I was asked “Who are you…” I would reply that, “I am a child of God and His Church, and as such my conscience has been formed to believe that…” and then go on to explain / defend my position with charity.

 

[Dorothy]

Scripture tells us to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner.
It is a charitable thing to do.

Of course, we need to do it with loving concern, not a superior attitude.

Judging is when we jump to conclusions about another person’s motives, and criticize them without knowing all the facts.

 

[rpp]

I try to choose my battles carefully. Always ask, “Am I willing to die on this hill?”

E.g., I will always argue against abortion. But I don’t always speak out against homosexual sex (especially since we can be fired at my workplace for being “intolerant”). I don’t argue about the war much, or about politics. But I will argue in favor of chastity.

One topic that I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut on is divorce. Always, even from Christians, the retort is, “Until you’ve been through it yourself, you have no right to make any comments.”

I suppose so. Maybe that attitude is why they got the divorce. OOPS, I spoke out. Sorry, everyone.

Please tell me you aren’t judging those who are divorced are you? That’s the kind of attitude that makes me feel unwelcome at church, even though I was the daily Massgoer in my marriage. No one who has actually been through it can possibly be in favor of it! And unless you have been, you can’t comment. (And that attitude is NOT why I’m divorced!)

Is it better to stay till someone drives you insane, or beats you to a pulp, or till your kids run away? Or put up with serial adultery from a spouse?

Liberanosamalo, your post is a great example of the theme of this thread. You accused Cat of being judgmental when it is indeed you who were.

When I read what Cat wrote, I did not read with an eye of seeing if I can twist this into an insult, which is at the heart and soul of the evil “political correctness” movement.

Instead, I saw someone who was trying to find charitable way to supports and promote Catholic teachings, the teaching on marriage being just one of them. Nowhere did she suggest that anyone stay in an abusive relationship. Even the Church does not teach that. You did her a great diservice in your answer.

But it was an effective example of the problem the OP was addressing. If you were trying to demonstrate this with some sarcasm, well done. If you really meant it, well… In either case, you should clarify your remarks, at least to Cat, if not publicly.

 

[Miserissima]

i’ve also been accused of being judgmental when i have said nothing. an example…i went through a period when i wore only dresses. this was my choice and i certainly didn’t try and make other women do so. i didn’t even discuss this with anyone but my hubby.

one day a woman from my church approached me and angrily began to explain why she wore shorts and tank tops. she informed me that no one had the right to judge her…um…okay… i didn’t even had a negative impression of her, until that moment.

First, she may have heard something through the proverbial grapevine…and received a distorted transmission of what you may have said to someone else. That being said…what juvenile behavior (from her)!

Second, and I’m still working on this issue, is that I have a “glass face.” By that I mean you can read every thought behind my expressions – and even read into every thought behind my expressions. Perhaps you may have the same challenge?

I’ve tried “custody of the eyes,” and modesty looking away or parting a comisserating smile on my face to avoid giving people the wrong impression of what I"m thinking, but that seems to make it worse.

It’s at that point I realize they’re defensive because, usually, their own conscience is speaking to them – not me.

 

[MaryD7]

I have a few particular people in mind, while I am typing this response. I have used a few of those lines with these people because I know them personally, warts and all. I would be incredulous that they would call me on the carpet when their own lives weren’t shining examples of Catholicism. Nothing irks me like judgments of my splinters when these people have logs sticking straight out of their eyes.

But, as I’ve grown older, I’ve discovered that there is truth many times in what these same people say. If I stop and think about their words, rather than react defensively, I can find those nuggets of truth. And if I don’t find any nuggets of truth then I can just ignore their observations.

 

[gardenswithkids]

You could come back with, :ehh: "Are you judging that I’m judgemental? "

I also thought I’d add a few more thoughts on accusations of judgmentalism and sin. While some consider me “judgemental”, in sharp contrast to that friends have confessed extremely serious sins to me while saying, “I knew I could tell you because you wouldn’t judge me.” They knew what they did was wrong–they didn’t want someone to tell that it wasn’t. They also knew I have opinions, but I think that they thought they could tell me because I would not be judging their soul while giving them my honest thoughts and help. They knew I would still care for them in spite of their sins, not because I thought they were sinless.

I think fairly often people suspect that others won’t really love them if they knew they were sinners, so they try to deny that what they do is sin. As others said-- they do judge and declare certain things aren’t sins, (all except judgmentalism ). I think it’s sad. People commit many sins, particularly sexual sins, because they want to feel loved and accepted. Maybe if they really felt loved and accepted, they would be able to admit to the truth to themselves. Then they might find the forgiveness and healing God offers to all of us.

 

[Cat]

Thanks, rpp. Very nice of you to speak up for me.

liberanosamalo, like I said, I won’t comment on divorce because I’m not divorced and from what I’ve seen, no divorced person wants to hear the opinions of someone who hasn’t been through it.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Cat,

If you don’t feel qualified to speak negatively on divorce, perhaps you are better qualified to sing the praises of one, life-long marriage.

This divorce thing has been bothering me lately. I’ve been really pounding on my scouts the meaning of the various points of the Scout Oath and Law. I’ve been trying to illustrate how mastering these as boys will make them good men. A few are children of broken homes. I could see that I hit a nerve when I applied the concept of keeping their oaths to their potential vocations as husbands. Ordinarily jocular screwballs suddenly turned serious when they saw that keeping the Scout Oath could be good practice for keeping a marriage Oath.

But I’m wondering if some parents will come back on me for this…

 

[Island_Oak]

I heard a concise response to this issue the other day–wish I could remember where. Basically–the take on it was that we are called to avoid condemning–not to avoid making prudent judgments. God is the only being with legitmate power to condemn anyone for their sins. As we are all sinners, we can observe, discern and judge conduct as immoral or evil and label it as such. What we are not to do is declare or pronounce condemnation upon anyone for their conduct since we cannot fully know their intent/knowledge, capacity/culpability or the state of their soul.

 

[Swamp_Yankee]

I like this one. " Who are you to judge me?" Answer " I’m not judging you, you’ve already been judged, I’m just agreeing with the judge."

 

[Black_Jaque]

" I’m not judging you, …, I’m just agreeing with the judge."

I love it!

 

[Smber2c]

I think it was St. Francis who said, “Preach the Gospel, if necessary use words.”

It has been my experience that people are more turned off by people “saying:” stuff. I think example is the best way. People know deep down inside what they are doing is wrong, they don’t need someone to point it out, it only makes them defensive. Unless someone was going to hurt someone else I would lead by example.

That and people create their own problems by sinning, they will get the consequences.

Secondly, I think that when a person leads a virtuous life, they won’t find it necessary to take the spec out of their brothers eye.

Your second point first. “Virtuous people won’t need to give correction”…I completely fully disagree. Jesus judged plenty of actions - did He lack in virtue? We can’t look at correction like it is a necessary evil, it is a good. We are helping and loving others by offering it…or at least we’re loving others when we do it correctly.

On the first point: “speak with actions and if necessary use words.” Yes, but realize how often it really is necessary. A father should be a holy and upright man, so his children have a great example to follow. However, that is not enough, he must also correct his child early and often so that the child can learn his stregnth.
Letting people make the mistake so they can learn the consequences of sin sounds nice until that means:

a three year old not listening to mommy and playing in the highway.
a 10 year old playing with dad’s gun and killing someone.
a 12 year old addicted to smoking.
a 14 year old getting pregnate.
a 20 year old already divorced.

No, much better to speak out and prevent the consequence if possible. If they don’t listen, the consequence will still be waiting for them, and this time they can’t cry “but I never knew?!”

 

[Smber2c]

Scripture tells us to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner.
It is a charitable thing to do.

Of course, we need to do it with loving concern, not a superior attitude.

Judging is when we jump to conclusions about another person’s motives, and criticize them without knowing all the facts.

Dorothy, I agree with your observatoin on instructing the ignorant and admonishing sin, but I respectfully disagree with your definition of judgement. Judging can be jumping to conclusions and assuming motives. But can it not also be simply judging an action, while refraining from assuming the person’s motive?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Dorothy, I agree with your observatoin on instructing the ignorant and admonishing sin, but I respectfully disagree with your definition of judgement. Judging can be jumping to conclusions and assuming motives. But can it not also be simply judging an action, while refraining from assuming the person’s motive?

Are we not indulging in reification here? Endlessly debating the definition of words, as if that would somehow lead us to Truth?

We all must judge – everything from judging if it is safe to step off the curb to judging if we will participate in an action of questionable morality. If we do not judge, we will be run over or sucked into immoral and criminal acts.

And in the process, we must assess the actions of those around us. And at some point, that assessment may well lead to actions – to correct a child, admonish a friend, or call the police.

The key is to judge without being judgemental – that is not to look down on those we assess and regard them as inferior to our selves.

 

[Black_Jaque]

But can it not also be simply judging an action, while refraining from assuming the person’s motive?

Right. I think that if you understand the context of the Biblical passage to not judge - it means to refrain from judging the person. We are supposed to judge actions.

We can examine any number of the Saints. Their lives are full of sinful actions, Paul, St. Augustine. But we know without a doubt that they made it to Heaven. So does that mean St. Augustine’s fornication was good? Does that mean Paul’s (Saul’s) murder sprees were good? Good Heaven’s NO!

Good people do bad things. But that doesn’t mean we have to remain silent when those people do the bad things.

Perhaps St. Monica would be a good role model for this. She most certainly did not approve of her son’s evil deeds. And I’m sure she made her disapproval clear to Augustine. But she NEVER judged her SON. She always insisted that no matter how many evil deeds he did, her son was worth saving. And a big Thank You to St. Monica!

 

[Joseph_Michael]

I don’t know if this is a general question, so i was not sure if i could ask a particular question related to this subject.

I live in a condo on the same floor as one of our lectors and his wife who is a Eucharistic minister and their little 5 year old daughter. I noticed that he doesn’t come to Mass when he is not reading. Now my understanding is that it is a mortal sin to miss Sunday Mass intentionally. We live right across the street from out Parish Church, which is very convenient. * He and she work at home so, i assume their schedules are flexible.

This sort of has been bothering me that i don’t see him or his wife at Mass most of the time and it is habitual. I thought i should encourage him, but i lack tact. I saw them going out Sunday and said “I didn’t see you at the 5:15 pm. Mass last night or the 9 am. this morning either.” He said “i don’t see you for a year at a time.” and i replied “That is because i was living in sin at the time.”

I have gone off on my own a number of times, when i found temptation to a sinful lifestyle to much to handle. Let’s face it; sometimes our flesh gets the better [or worst] of us. At those times the last place i wanted to be was in Church. Those periods could last all spring, summer and fall.

Now that i am living a faith filled life, i attend Mass every day and try to avoid all sinful living. I am concerned with this family’s spiritual wellbeing. He seemed a little upset that i would question him about it. I’m also concerned with the example he is giving to his daughter. He is responsible for her as well as to himself. The wife goes to Mass less often than he does, even thought the daughter is very well behaved at Mass.

A friend told me i was wrong to bring this up to my neighbor. Am i being condemning? I know i am being judgmental. This has been on my mind since our encounter Sunday. I just wanted to encourage them away from obvious sin. I find the Mass so wonderful, i just think they are also missing out on great blessings.

Sincerely,
Joseph

PS. When i have been missing church, the Pastor never even contacted me to see what was wrong. What ever became of Pastoral care?*