Who are YOU to tell me I'm GOING TO HELL???!!!

[SoledadLuLu]

Hello To All,

As a ex JW, I am going to speak my peace.

When my JW brother died, many, many of Catholic people on this site, informed me that he could not make it to heaven because he was not baptized correctly. Since JWs do not believe in the Trinity, his baptism is invalid, for by golly you must believe in the trinity for your baptism to be valid, and you must be baptized to get to heaven.

My JW brother loved God, (the SAME GOD us Catholics worship) and out of love for his God, made a vow to love God through his baptism and preached the “good news” to everyone he met. He loved God with his whole heart, mind and soul, and he practiced loving his neighbor as himself. Yes, he was imperfect, he sinned and he was sorry for his sins. Oh, but his failure to ever have received ABSOLUTION, did him in too.

I found no words of hope from most Catholics on this site…just words of condemnation…

Even though, as a JW, he looked forward to his “earthly resurrection” as his eternal salvation, my brother is most certainly heaven! This I know to be true. When he died, God embraced him with his love, because he loved GOD above all things on this earth.

I think many of you on this site, could stand a little humility, gratitude, and perhaps an ounce of mercy.

God is not impartial, and does not turn away those who love him, no matter how misguided the religion is.

GOD IS BEYOND ANY RELIGIOUS DENOMINATION!

How can you weigh laws, regulations, and religious differences against God’s Mercy!

I guess my point is Catholics are mirrors of JWs, just with different beliefs and laws.

It is only by God’s Mercy that any of us will receive the gift of eternal salvation.

 

[MakingMemories]

When my JW brother died, many, many of Catholic people on this site, informed me that he could not make it to heaven because he was not baptized correctly.

First let me tell you that I am truly sorry for your loss. May the eternal light shine upon your brother and may God’s peace rest upon your soul as you mourn his loss.
SouldadLuLu:

Yes, he was imperfect, he sinned and he was sorry for his sins. Oh, but his failure to ever have received ABSOLUTION, did him in too.

Those Catholics who said this do not know their Catholic faith.

Our Catholic faith teaches us that the normative way we are forgiven sins is through the Sacrament of Confession. This Sacrament is a great blessing to our Church, something that is found no where else (other than the Orthodox).

But this blessing does not mean Catholics have the exclusive market on forgiveness of sin. Those Catholics forget to recognize that the Catholic Church teaches that there are those who are outside the physical walls of the Catholic Church who may very well be saved. Our Catholic faith teaches us that we are not the judge of souls - God is!
SouldadLuLu:

I found no words of hope from most Catholics on this site…just words of condemnation…

I’m sorry you received such treatment. Anyone grieving or otherwise should not be subjected to that. There are good people on this site. I understand that it can be challenging to sift through the crud. It can be even more daunting when you are trying to grieve the loss of a loved one.
SoulfoodLuLu:

GOD IS BEYOND ANY RELIGIOUS DENOMINATION!

How can you weigh laws, regulations, and religious differences against God’s Mercy!

I guess my point is Catholics are mirrors of JWs, just with different beliefs and laws.

I’m not familiar enough with the rules, regulations, etc. of JW’s, but the Catholic Church does not teach that if you do “x” you will in fact go to hell. The Catholic Church however does teach what behaviors are detrimental to our souls, behaviors that could in fact lead us to hell. I hope you understand the difference.
SoulfoodLuLu:

It is only by God’s Mercy that any of us will receive the gift of eternal salvation.

This is Catholic teaching.

Jesus taught that if we repent of our sins we will be forgiven. I think you can agree that someone can’t just go to his neighbor’s house, kill his neighbor who’s been threatening to sue him for his life savings, and then think to himself: “I can only rely on God’s Mercy anyway for salvation, so what I do to my neighbor has no real bearing on what I just did to him”.

There’s a reason for the rules. God wants us to do our best to follow them. If the man in my example decides not to kill his neighbor, that doesn’t “win” him a ticket into heaven. But hopefully it is the Holy Spirit working in him to make the Christian choice of loving that neighbor instead of hating him.

The two greatest commandments given by Christ are to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength. The second is to love our neighbor as ourself.

Christ’s teaching on the greatest commandments simplified the law - but these commandments if you think about it are all encompassing as it pertains to faith and morals (including the commandment of “thou shalt not kill” given by Moses in the Old Testament as my example above illustrates) because they change the focus from mere “following the law because it’s the law” to “following the law because we want to love God and love our neighbor”.

 

[cecilia97]

I finally went mini-ballistic on a Jehovah’s Witness last week.

First, a little background information. Walking down the main shopping street in our community on a Saturday is like running the gauntlet. There are two moving nests of Jehovah’s Witnesses that lie in wait to ambush the passerby, shoving The Watchtower in your face and sternly warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there is Pentecostal Pastor Dude, who stands on the corner, in front of his little church, waving his Bible, trying to make eye contact, and warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what HE tells you to do. Then there is the inevitable pair of Mormon missionaries, warning you that you can’t get to heaven unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there are the Nazarenes, who go door-to-door, warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. I’ve been told by numerous Baptists that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I do what THEY tell me to do. I’ve been warned by two different Mormons, on this board alone, that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I become a Mormon.

So, last Saturday, lugging a 40 pound bag of dog food on my shoulder, I absent mindedly strolled past one of the JW traps. Woman jumps out in front of me, waving The Watchtower, and starts the pitch. Tried to be nice and tell her “not interested,” but she wouldn’t stop and warned me that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I listened to her. Not being in the mood to be banished off to the eternal lake of fire that day, I plopped down the sack of kibble and asked her, in a not-so-polite tone of voice, “what gives YOU the right to banish ME off to HELL???!!! You don’t know me, you don’t anything about me, so what gives you that right? Like, just who do you think you are? Etc., etc., etc.” In any case, she lowered her Watchtower and high-tailed it back to the nest. I don’t think that one will bother me again anyway.

Don’t these idiots realize how STUPID they sound? It is absolutely beyond my comprehension how anybody with a marginally functional cerebral cortex can subscribe to this kind of nonsense. And it’s not just the connoisseurs of “Elvis painted on velvet” and the like either. I’ve known some very respectable and well educated people who firmly believe that everybody BURNS IN HELL, except those who believe and practice as they do. Like the qualification for heaven is that one strictly follows a specific set of tenets. In addition to totally defying common sense, it’s precisely the sort of thing Jesus warned us AGAINST. What ever happened to “love your neighbor as yourself?” Seems to me like these people have totally missed the point.

You know how to really stop that quick…especially with a big bag of kibble on your shoulder? Scream. Not scream words or anything, just scream like a clansman going into battle. Rarrrrrrrrrrr! Show 'em your teeth. That’ll freak anybody out. They won’t try to save you from hell ever again.

Nobody messes with a crazy person.

 

[SoledadLuLu]

First let me tell you that I am truly sorry for your loss. May the eternal light shine upon your brother and may God’s peace rest upon your soul as you mourn his loss.

Thank you MakingMemories. He died at the young age 38.

Church teaches that there are those who are outside the physical walls of the Catholic Church who may very well be saved. Our Catholic faith teaches us that we are not the judge of souls - God is!

JWs don’t believe that only JWs are saved either. Many of them think it is an exclusive club, but truly they believe that all those who willfully reject God, will be cast in to the fire of final destruction along with Satan and his demons. This is why they preach from door to door. They feel it is their responsibility to spread the good news of God’s hope of salvation. They do their part…God takes care of the rest.

The Catholic Church however does teach what behaviors are detrimental to our souls, behaviors that could in fact lead us to hell. I hope you understand the difference.

The JWs teach the same thing, it is just that the eternal damnation/salvation is different. This is why I say Catholic & JWs are mirrors. There are many, many behaviors that are detrimental to our souls that will lead us to the rejection of God, and one of them is arrogance.

Jesus taught that if we repent of our sins we will be forgiven.

JW’s are in agreement with this too! This was the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross. The gift of forgiveness is not all that it takes. Once you know of the gift…it is what one does with the gift after it is received.

The two greatest commandments given by Christ are to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength. The second is to love our neighbor as ourself.

This is what the JWs try live by. That and “whatever you do to the least of my people you do unto me” Yes, they are sinners, Yes, they are misguided by an organization that claims to be the one true truth. All religions will claim that. If they didn’t, they would have no followers.

To me, the whole message of the gospel of Jesus is about Mercy. Loving one another and extending the mercy of God throughout all mankind…This is not always easy and I certainly fail lots of times.

Thank you MakingMemories for your mercy. I am no longer a JW, and haven’t been for 20 years, so forgive me if I do not remember all of their teachings correctly. They are misguided souls, and I feel sorry for them. At the same time, there are many teachings of the catholic church that I do not understand or believe in. I just pray for God’s truth & mercy to shine through and I trust that it will.

I must tell you that I love going to mass and have had very powerful, moving spiritual experiences. Although after my brother died in September, I have found it very difficult to go because of my anger at responses from this site. I found it very offensive that many had the nerve to tell me that my brother was not going to heaven! When I read them, I found that they were just as condemning as the JW in the original post.

I know my brother is in heaven, He is at peace, I am finally at peace.

Jesus said to the Pharisees “Go and learn the meaning of the words ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”

Last I remember, all Christian religions, no matter the denomination, teach that we are all sinners. It is the one’s who think they are righteous, I worry about.

We are all the same to Jesus!

 

[BartBurk]

There are many Catholics who do the same thing to non-Catholics. I listen to some of those folks on EWTN open-line and wonder what church they belong to. Some of the Catholic Answers commentators on the radio are just as bad. I was listening to John Martinoni speaking to a Baptist minister one day and he was asked if a non-Catholic could go to heaven. Martinoni claimed it was possible, but that it would be very difficult for a Protestant to make it into heaven without belonging to the Catholic Church in this life. And on one of the other threads a Catholic was speculating about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young being in a warm place right now. So it seems to me that many Catholics are just as guilty of this as your normal Mormon or JW. I’m a Catholic who converted to Catholicism from Mormonism – a lot of Catholics are very willing to consign my Mormon wife and kids to hell even though they live a more moral life than many active Catholics I know.

 

[MakingMemories]

…I must tell you that I love going to mass and have had very powerful, moving spiritual experiences. Although after my brother died in September, I have found it very difficult to go because of my anger at responses from this site…

…Jesus said to the Pharisees "Go and learn the meaning of the words ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice’

It sounds like you are being tempted to stop drawing nearer to something you were strongly drawn to —> Holy Mass.

Remember that the evil one will do anything to make us doubt our faith. There is nothing the devil wants more than for people to stop adoring Christ at Mass. When the Eucharist is emptied of its meaning, the devil scores a triumph.

At Mass we celebrate His sacrifice for us. He desires Mercy from us, not sacrifice because it was His Sacrifice that obtained Mercy for us at Calvary. You probably had powerful and moving experiences at Mass because you are at Calvary with Jesus at every Mass you attend. The devil wants us as far away from experiencing this as possible. The devil wants to especially use Catholics to draw Catholics away from Mass. Try to dicern who are the true sheep and who are the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

 

[SoledadLuLu]

At Mass we celebrate His sacrifice for us. He desires Mercy from us, not sacrifice because it was His Sacrifice that obtained Mercy for us at Calvary.You probably had powerful and moving experiences at Mass because you are at Calvary with Jesus at every Mass you attend

Yes, and this is why I cherish the mass.

3 years ago, I started to say the rosary daily, for months. I needed a mother at that time, but have not one I can call upon. I called upon Mary for help as I had no other choice. (Me, an ex JW who hated, no abhorred the rosary). Indeed something wonderful happened…Mary led me to her son, my Lord and Savior, and I fell in love with him. When one falls in love with Jesus…everything changes.

You are correct the evil one does use every means possible to lure us away from God’s Truth His Love and Mercy. I have fallen victim to his snare. The last nine months have been a huge struggle, and rest assured, Jesus is winning.

Thank you for your posts, they were most uplifting.

 

[HashemEchad]

I finally went mini-ballistic on a Jehovah’s Witness last week.

First, a little background information. Walking down the main shopping street in our community on a Saturday is like running the gauntlet. There are two moving nests of Jehovah’s Witnesses that lie in wait to ambush the passerby, shoving The Watchtower in your face and sternly warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there is Pentecostal Pastor Dude, who stands on the corner, in front of his little church, waving his Bible, trying to make eye contact, and warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what HE tells you to do. Then there is the inevitable pair of Mormon missionaries, warning you that you can’t get to heaven unless you do what THEY tell you to do. Then there are the Nazarenes, who go door-to-door, warning you that you’re GOING TO HELL unless you do what THEY tell you to do. I’ve been told by numerous Baptists that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I do what THEY tell me to do. I’ve been warned by two different Mormons, on this board alone, that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I become a Mormon.

So, last Saturday, lugging a 40 pound bag of dog food on my shoulder, I absent mindedly strolled past one of the JW traps. Woman jumps out in front of me, waving The Watchtower, and starts the pitch. Tried to be nice and tell her “not interested,” but she wouldn’t stop and warned me that I’m GOING TO HELL unless I listened to her. Not being in the mood to be banished off to the eternal lake of fire that day, I plopped down the sack of kibble and asked her, in a not-so-polite tone of voice, “what gives YOU the right to banish ME off to HELL???!!! You don’t know me, you don’t anything about me, so what gives you that right? Like, just who do you think you are? Etc., etc., etc.” In any case, she lowered her Watchtower and high-tailed it back to the nest. I don’t think that one will bother me again anyway.

Don’t these idiots realize how STUPID they sound? It is absolutely beyond my comprehension how anybody with a marginally functional cerebral cortex can subscribe to this kind of nonsense. And it’s not just the connoisseurs of “Elvis painted on velvet” and the like either. I’ve known some very respectable and well educated people who firmly believe that everybody BURNS IN HELL, except those who believe and practice as they do. Like the qualification for heaven is that one strictly follows a specific set of tenets. In addition to totally defying common sense, it’s precisely the sort of thing Jesus warned us AGAINST. What ever happened to “love your neighbor as yourself?” Seems to me like these people have totally missed the point.

Maybe now you understand the problem Jews have always had with missionary Christianity in general.

 

[HashemEchad]

Hello To All,

As a ex JW, I am going to speak my peace.

When my JW brother died, many, many of Catholic people on this site, informed me that he could not make it to heaven because he was not baptized correctly. Since JWs do not believe in the Trinity, his baptism is invalid, for by golly you must believe in the trinity for your baptism to be valid, and you must be baptized to get to heaven.

My JW brother loved God, (the SAME GOD us Catholics worship) and out of love for his God, made a vow to love God through his baptism and preached the “good news” to everyone he met. He loved God with his whole heart, mind and soul, and he practiced loving his neighbor as himself. Yes, he was imperfect, he sinned and he was sorry for his sins. Oh, but his failure to ever have received ABSOLUTION, did him in too.

I found no words of hope from most Catholics on this site…just words of condemnation…

Even though, as a JW, he looked forward to his “earthly resurrection” as his eternal salvation, my brother is most certainly heaven! This I know to be true. When he died, God embraced him with his love, because he loved GOD above all things on this earth.

I think many of you on this site, could stand a little humility, gratitude, and perhaps an ounce of mercy.

God is not impartial, and does not turn away those who love him, no matter how misguided the religion is.

GOD IS BEYOND ANY RELIGIOUS DENOMINATION!

How can you weigh laws, regulations, and religious differences against God’s Mercy!

I guess my point is Catholics are mirrors of JWs, just with different beliefs and laws.

It is only by God’s Mercy that any of us will receive the gift of eternal salvation.

I want to first tell you how deeply sorry I am for the loss of your brother. And these are not just words, because over the last few years, I have lost many that were dear to me, including my mother a few months ago. My heart truly goes out to you.

I am not a Catholic, a JW or any kind of Christian, personally; I am Jewish. My mother was raised Catholic, and converted to Orthodox Judaism in 1944. I have mentioned her situation a few times on this forum, and so far, no Catholic has told me flat out that she is burning in hell for rejecting Christianity for Judaism, but I know many of them are thinking it, based on other things they have said. It doesn’t matter to me, because I know what I believe based on Judaism, and what other religions believe matters not at all to me.

Maybe you can see it the same way, though I realize if you are now Catholic, that makes it harder.

But maybe this can help you: the Catholic priests I have worked with offline in Jewish-Christian ecumenical relations (including the late Cardinal John O’ Connor of NY) have told me that Catholicism believes that only God can see the true state of a person’s heart.

And so any Catholics who might have been unkind to you about your brother, were not following true Catholic teaching.

 

[SoledadLuLu]

I want to first tell you how deeply sorry I am for the loss of your brother. And these are not just words, because over the last few years, I have lost many that were dear to me, including my mother a few months ago. My heart truly goes out to you.

Hashem, Thank you for your kind words. May you find peace to know that your loved ones are united with God’s everlasting love. God is holding them in his embrace.

But maybe this can help you: the Catholic priests I have worked with offline in Jewish-Christian ecumenical relations (including the late Cardinal John O’ Connor of NY) have told me that Catholicism believes that only God can see the true state of a person’s heart.

And so any Catholics who might have been unkind to you about your brother, were not following true Catholic teaching.

Yes, there are many Catholics who do not understand the depth of God’s Mercy, otherwise they would not say the cruel things to one that is grieving.

When it comes down to it, all religions think they have “the one true religion” There is only ONE GOD, and many, many ways to love, honor and worship him here on earth. There is no right or wrong way. Who are we to be so arrogant, and judge another’s way of worshiping GOD.

You are right, God is the only one that can see the soul as it truly is. Myself, I am banking on his mercy. I try my best to offer mercy, forgiveness and understanding to others. I don’t always succeed, but I do try.

I’m sure God must be shaking his head at all of our petty biblical arguments.

God is with you Hashem, pray to him often, love and worship him alone and he will give you the peace you need to carry on.

 

[HashemEchad]

You’re right, Soledad.

God bless you, you are a truly understanding and compassionate person!

 

[uglygal]

I believe not many people actually realise what they are saying when they say someone is going to hell or think that they are going to hell.

Hell is the one point that repels me from christianity and the christian god because its reality is so nauseating it literally makes me sick …and a god of love fashioned it, maintains it, populates it! uch:

How a person can wish eternal … ETERNAL … suffering, torment, pain, lonliness onto any other living creature regardless of what they’ve done but because of their creed, is beyond me. Then again I’ll be told I don’t understand … blah blah blah

 

[elts1956]

Do you mean that men do not go to hell at all or that men are not destined to go to hell? If the former, I object: hell is a Catholic doctrine. If the latter, I agree: God damns no one to hell - he wills everyone to be saved. For a clear understanding of what I mean, I present to you the Church’s teaching on hell, from the Catechism:

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."610 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.611 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."616

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."617

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;618 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:619

Father, accept this offering

from your whole family.

Grant us your peace in this life,

save us from final damnation,

and count us among those you have chosen.620

If you reread John Russell Jr.'s post again, you will note he said, "The Church has never TAUGHT of one person going to hell. Hell is a Christian belief, not only Christian Catholic. The Catholic Chruch has stated certain ACTIONS are DESERVING of Hell, but also states that God is the final judge. NO ONE can JUDGE another and say with any certainty what either their punishment, OR their REWARD will be. IF this was EVER said by a TEACHING of the CHURCH.

 

[Hesychios]

I guess my point is Catholics are mirrors of JWs, just with different beliefs and laws.

I came to this same conclusion a while back.

 

[MakingMemories]

I came to this same conclusion a while back.

Did you come to this same conclusion regarding your own faith of Orthodoxy? That it is a mirror of others, just with different beliefs and laws?

It seems to me that all religions have a set of beliefs and laws. They only mirror each other in that there are in fact beliefs and laws to abide by.

 

[HashemEchad]

I believe not many people actually realise what they are saying when they say someone is going to hell or think that they are going to hell.

Hell is the one point that repels me from christianity and the christian god because its reality is so nauseating it literally makes me sick …and a god of love fashioned it, maintains it, populates it! uch:

How a person can wish eternal … ETERNAL … suffering, torment, pain, lonliness onto any other living creature regardless of what they’ve done but because of their creed, is beyond me. Then again I’ll be told I don’t understand … blah blah blah

May I say something? I understand how you feel…but you should know that Christianity got its idea of an eternally burning hell from ancient Judaism. In Orthodox Judaism, we do believe in gehinnom or hell.

But the difference is, we do not believe people go there for having incorrect BELIEFS…we believe they go there for incorrect ACTIONS.

And we teach that you must be truly, horribly, impossibly evil to wind up there. Think, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro. How many people do you know like that? I bet very few if any.

Our faith never consigns anyone to gehinnom unless they have truly committed heinous sins that are beyond understanding.

 

[uglygal]

thankyou Hashem

that position is understandable. Damnation just because your not part of God’s “right” religion is too scary a thought for me to ponder long. At least with what you say I believe a person can have peace … do your best according to what you believe in your heart of hearts and have good deeds, and not constantly worrying about whether your in the right religion … then then am I in the right denomination? the right sect? the right group? and if I am in the right denomination, does God prefer traditional or orthodox?, novus ordo or the tridentine mass? :whacky:

In my experience what the OP is so frustrated about is done by catholics too, so … your reaping what you sow

 

[GailMac]

Wow o wow - I’ve just read through some more of the recent posts on this thread and feel like its time to talk - all joking aside! (What some JW’s must think of us is horrid things!)

I was touched by the guy whose brother was lost while living as a JW. I recently lost my dad and then my mom, a month later. I am a convert and don’t kid myself about the probable outcome of both my parents religious choices and the way that affected their immortal destiny. I can’t - I know better. Sue me for being so sure of Hell, but it is there, real and a definute outcome for any soul that choses it!

To know God and reject Him pretty well decides that. But then there is the Divine Mercy. I might get to Heaven and be surprised! (provided I get there)

I think the fear of Hell is a motive many use for practicing their religion, (catholics included) but it is only *partial contrition *and perfect contrition is what is needed to obtain the remission of sins. God can’t remit things unrepented of. Many religions today don’t tell the folks who go there about the necessity of contrition for sins to be forgiven nor do they even bother to tell folks what sin is or isn’t and even worse “justify” serious sins, such as abortion, away! I think half the reasons some folks stay in false places is because they never get told of their own personal sins.

It is very true that we don’t judge - God does, but we don’t fool ourselves about outcomes when it comes to mortal sins. I guess that is a fundamental difference between most protestant denominations and Catholics and I would include the JW’s in this as well, even though I don’t consider them Christian in that they deny Jesus is Lord! They may even mince that statement with semantics, etc. but basically they don’t believe God is God and call Him by another name. Outwardly even though they may appear to be wonderful folks doing all the “right” things and putting some obvious sinners to shame, inwardly they don’t believe in God and I think, not wanting to upset any of them who may take me to task on this, THAT is what prevents them from obtaining the salvation they need. Our Savior is Jesus Christ and He is God. Who can they get mercy from if they exclude Him for their religion? Is He to forget that they sold a false religion all their lives because they accomplished many politely nice deeds?

Oh well, blast me. I believe in the Divine Mercy. I love Him in that regard and prayed the Divine Mercy for my parents every day. They never made any outward signs of repentance or conversion in all the years I’ve been Catholic and died outside the Church (proper). they knew where the Church was and lots about what it teaches but chose to stay away. When they died, the harder part was acknowledging that a little tiny bit of hope about their eternal salvation died along with them. That is what I grieve today. They were lost years before they actually died. Hard stuff to acknowledge openly, but I believe what I believe and there isn’t any need to sugar coat it.

One of the things I think many protestants suffer from that greatly hinders them from seeking the Truth is a lack of understanding of God as the Divine Mercy. He will forgive sins but they must be acknowledged as sins before He can enter their lives as Savior. They live in a world of half truths and discard much of the message our Savior gave us. But if I accept Jesus, I accept ALL He taught and did and strive to follow Him as He wills, not as I will. And to do that in Truth means accepting what the Church teaches as His. It is that simple. Once over that hump, the rest is gravy.

So, for the JW whose brother left this world without knowing Jesus, please accept my sympathies, but also accept what we have been trying, however falteringly, to tell you - you can save yourself from false religions by simply accepting Jesus’ Church. We’re here whenever you’re ready. My parents never got ready.

Peace,

Gail

 

[RC_Matt]

thankyou Hashem

that position is understandable. Damnation just because your not part of God’s “right” religion is too scary a thought for me to ponder long. At least with what you say I believe a person can have peace … do your best according to what you believe in your heart of hearts and have good deeds, and not constantly worrying about whether your in the right religion … then then am I in the right denomination? the right sect? the right group? and if I am in the right denomination, does God prefer traditional or orthodox?, novus ordo or the tridentine mass? :whacky:

That line of thinking isn’t scary, it’s ridiculous; and there’s nothing to ponder at all, save how anybody who believes in a loving God could also believe something like that. In any case, you and Hashem both hit the nail right on the head.

In my experience what the OP is so frustrated about is done by catholics too, so … your reaping what you sow

Any Catholics who subscribe to that line of thinking are totally ignorant of what their own faith teaches and are seriously in error. You should tell them that too, and suggest that maybe they should go learn some very basic core tenets of Catholicism if they wish to call themselves Catholics.

 

[strngrnrth]

And we teach that you must be truly, horribly, impossibly evil to wind up there. Think, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro. How many people do you know like that? I bet very few if any.

Our faith never consigns anyone to gehinnom unless they have truly committed heinous sins that are beyond understanding.

Thank you! That actually makes a few things make sense to me for the first time.
I come from a VERY different viewpoint. Raised atheist with the view that extinction is the only future anyone can expect, then I got into the occult in a heavy way and developed an idea of the afterlife from many sources by trying to fit together what I had any evidence for (including the statements of beings we communicated with on the Ouija Board and so forth). We (my group) decided the possibilities are fourfold: 1. Heaven, a kind of Nirvana experience preceded by a sort of amusement-park time of fun and final spiitual exercises, 2. reincarnation preceded by the fun scene and many tests, into a better life, 3. reincarnation into a worse life after the preparation time, and 4. Hell, a cold, Norse-mythology-type place of wandering. The grading scale would adjust according to how a person handled each successive life and what they learned over all lifetimes. The ways to go to Hell were many but the surest was to sell one’s soul for special powers. Even that decision, though, could still be cleaned up in a new lifetime. It was refusal to try to learn all one could that clinched it. Even someone who had never sold their soul could end up down there by refusing to seek wisdom *sufficiently, *whereas someone who had done such a thing could still get another chance by buying good karma, learning and showing a desire to be wiser next time, which meant it was very uncertain what the next life held for anyone particular. Seeking knowledge was considered excellent insurance regardless.
To warn someone they could go to Hell was not treated as a very harsh statement. It was a simple, usually kindly caution, like watch out for the wet floor or don’t chew tin foil.
Because of much study and examination of facts, I became a Christian (nondenominational), and learned that part of my duty was to spread the warning of Hell. With reincarnation removed as an option, it was much more urgent, yet still the same concept to me: learn more truth or you might fail the test and fall down at the end. I looked for stories to read of how others brought the subject up, because I was tongue-tied. I learned that it was considered very outrageous and hateful to say anything about what does and doesn’t send a person to Hell, most of all to suggest that being Jewish (or any other religion that rejects Jesus)could ever be correlated with the danger of Hell.
But what you just posted clears the issue up.:doh2: :newidea: If you see Hell as a place for the most evil people, and you see your religion as something you were born with a mandate to believe, then OF COURSE it would be offensive to be told that your religion might not be enough to keep you out of Hell. Whereas to me, religion is a kind of science or study, something to learn about and draw new conclusions about, and Hell is simply a failure. As a pagan-occult scholar, I took arguments that my religion wouldn’t protect me from Hell as an invitation to learn more and decide for myself. It didn’t seem personal or offensive, any more than being told the respirators at a job need to be replaced.