Who believes in the True Presence?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholicgolfer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I BELIEVE IN THE TRUE PRESENCE!!! 😛

…though I’m not confirmed yet but when I am and take the Eucharist, I’ll cry for joy! 🙂
 
40.png
RonWI:
If the Catholic Church recognizes that a Lutheran pastor can take ordinary tap water and perform a valid baptism (which it does), what is the basis for the Catholic Church denying that a Lutheran pastor can “affect” the words of institution? In both cases, the Word is joined to the elements.

But, please, rather than tell me what makes obvious sense to you, show me where this is the Catholic Church’s teaching.
**1400 **Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1400.htm
 
JGC said:
**1400 **Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1400.htm

Compare to the Orthodox Churches -

[1399](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1399.htm’)😉 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. “These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy.” A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged."238

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#I
 
What is the basis for the doctrine that apostolic succession is required for the Eucharistic mystry?

If Thomas was present at the Last Supper, and personally received Christ’s instructions to “take and eat”, etc., and thereafter founded the church in India, which is neither Orthodox nor Roman, did the church in India ever have the Eucharistic mystery, and if so, when did it lose it?
 
My brother was raised Catholic and became a Lutheran minister. There is a much easier way to understand the difference in a Lutheran’s understanding of the Eucharist than deciphering transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation. To clarify a Methodist’s or Lutheran’s actual belief ask them if they bow down and worship the host after it is consecrated. My brother (who has since came back to Catholicism after 30 years) says they would just throw away the extra hosts after their service.
 
I have heard that some protestants believe that they actually transubstanciate (sp?) the bread and wine and turn it into the body and blood of Jesus. I have heard this from Lutherans and Methodist. What would give them this power if they aren’t ordained by the Church? Aren’t only Catholic priest able to do this since their ordination comes from the apostles? BTW, I have also heard from Lutharens and Methodist that they don’t believe in the true presence, so I am confused.
well, not everyone in every religion believes the same things - even Catholics are divided on issues such as abc, divorce, abortion, NFP, and even women’s roles in the church changing. I don’t think there has ever been a church in which 100% of it’s members believed the exact same thing.:confused:

It seems to me that one thing the CC sometimes seems to miss is that Protestants came from Catholics. To me this means that we have the same rights and we are still of the true faith founded by Jesus. We all mostly have the same core belief - Jesus is son of God and came to save those on Earth who seak his forgiveness. Now, this is what we believe, it doesn’t have to be what Catholics believe.

I mean the CC says they only have the power to do this in the eucharist, but this may not actually be so. Just because one group says so does not make it automatically correct.

Now, if Protestants are wrong, then it’s on them, not Catholics. So, although I get what you are saying, it really shouldn’t matter to the CC what we do in this regard because the CC believes in the first place that we do not have a real eucharist - if that is truly what it believes, then it shouldn’t matter to them what different protestant groups believe.

God bless.
 
What is the basis for the doctrine that apostolic succession is required for the Eucharistic mystry?

If Thomas was present at the Last Supper, and personally received Christ’s instructions to “take and eat”, etc., and thereafter founded the church in India, which is neither Orthodox nor Roman, did the church in India ever have the Eucharistic mystery, and if so, when did it lose it?
You are wrong - the CC church in India belongs to the RCC and they did not lose the Eucharistic mystery (the Catholics in India have belonged to the RCC since the days of the Portugese influence in which time they accepted the official RCC church from their Thomas version - they always have and will have it.
 
My brother was raised Catholic and became a Lutheran minister. There is a much easier way to understand the difference in a Lutheran’s understanding of the Eucharist than deciphering transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation. To clarify a Methodist’s or Lutheran’s actual belief ask them if they bow down and worship the host after it is consecrated. My brother (who has since came back to Catholicism after 30 years) says they would just throw away the extra hosts after their service.
Anyone who “throws away” extra hosts in the UMC would be committing a grave sacrilege, per official church doctrine.
 
Anyone who “throws away” extra hosts in the UMC would be committing a grave sacrilege, per official church doctrine.
Do the members of the UMC worship the consecrated host?
 
My brother was raised Catholic and became a Lutheran minister. There is a much easier way to understand the difference in a Lutheran’s understanding of the Eucharist than deciphering transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation. To clarify a Methodist’s or Lutheran’s actual belief ask them if they bow down and worship the host after it is consecrated. My brother (who has since came back to Catholicism after 30 years) says they would just throw away the extra hosts after their service.
A hideous practice that should be condemned! My father was a Lutheran minister. He used to take consecrated host to the sick and shut ins during the week. An interesting read about Luther’s Eucharistic veneration here. See Chapter VII

members.aol.com/SemperRef/venerable.html#fnVII

Jon
 
Christ died once for all. He doesn’t keep dying over and over!
 
Christ died once for all. He doesn’t keep dying over and over!
Rev 5:[6] And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth…"

If Jesus’ death was just for that one point in time, how do you explain John’s vision of Jesus standing by the throne in heaven-in eternity- “standing as though it had been slain”?
 
Do the members of the UMC worship the consecrated host?
We worship Christ. As far as consecrated hosts… anything left over is either distributed to sick and shut-ins, consumed, or interred. So yes, we worship Christ when He is present - and He is present in the bread and wine.

A moot point for you, isn’t it, since you don’t think we have valid ordinations?
 
We worship Christ. As far as consecrated hosts… anything left over is either distributed to sick and shut-ins, consumed, or interred. So yes, we worship Christ when He is present - and He is present in the bread and wine.
God isn’t omnipresent?
 
Rev 5:[6] And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth…"

If Jesus’ death was just for that one point in time, how do you explain John’s vision of Jesus standing by the throne in heaven-in eternity- “standing as though it had been slain”?
Romans, Peter, and Hebrews.
 
We worship Christ. As far as consecrated hosts… anything left over is either distributed to sick and shut-ins, consumed, or interred. So yes, we worship Christ when He is present - and He is present in the bread and wine.

A moot point for you, isn’t it, since you don’t think we have valid ordinations?
Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans do not have Tabernacles, do they? Don’t they believe that when communion is over the host once again becomes bread. Catholics believe that the host remains the actual physical body and blood of Christ forever.
 
Most Lutherans, as I understand, believe in consubstatiation, which isn’t exactly the same as transubstatiation. The Methodists I know believe in neither.

Neither group has a valid priesthood and therefore no real presence in their Eucharist.
We Lutherans believe That Jesus is present in the Eucharist because Scripture says that he is. This is my body and this is my blood. When we partake in the Eucharist it then becomes the body and blood of Christ. As I understand it Transubstatiation started well after Ad 33 maybe as late as 500 to 1200 AD. Where in scripture is transubstatiation mentioned or is that tradition? At what point does a practice become tradition. Then before it does become tradition and if it is not in scripture what is it in the mean time. Just a question Do not attack !!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top