Who believes in the True Presence?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholicgolfer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans do not have Tabernacles, do they? Don’t they believe that when communion is over the host once again becomes bread. Catholics believe that the host remains the actual physical body and blood of Christ forever.
As a former ELCA Lutheran, I admit that the practices were abominable after Communion. No, most ELCA churches do not have tabernacles. While hosts that are left over are used for the sick and elderly, the rest was disposed, and the wine was stuffed back into the closet. When bread was used, the bread was sometimes taken by the youth and distributed among them to eat. Two youth were even caught drinking the wine in the closet about five years ago! As for the pastors, they did nothing to stop the acts that were committed with the bread.
 
We Lutherans believe That Jesus is present in the Eucharist because Scripture says that he is. This is my body and this is my blood. When we partake in the Eucharist it then becomes the body and blood of Christ. As I understand it Transubstatiation started well after Ad 33 maybe as late as 500 to 1200 AD. Where in scripture is transubstatiation mentioned or is that tradition? At what point does a practice become tradition. Then before it does become tradition and if it is not in scripture what is it in the mean time. Just a question Do not attack !!
You see there you go again catholiconce What did I tell you about Posting to this site ? I did not ask for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am a Catholic you are a protestant you will speak when I tell you to speak. Is that clear ?
 
We Lutherans believe That Jesus is present in the Eucharist because Scripture says that he is. This is my body and this is my blood. When we partake in the Eucharist it then becomes the body and blood of Christ. As I understand it Transubstatiation started well after Ad 33 maybe as late as 500 to 1200 AD. Where in scripture is transubstatiation mentioned or is that tradition? At what point does a practice become tradition. Then before it does become tradition and if it is not in scripture what is it in the mean time. Just a question Do not attack !!
jeberish
 
You see there you go again catholiconce What did I tell you about Posting to this site ? I did not ask for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I am a Catholic you are a protestant you will speak when I tell you to speak. Is that clear ?
Sorry sir I will ask you before I post. You sound Just like an older sibling of mine I must ask her before I speak even more so now that I am No longer RC. Do you wonder why I left just read your posts. Oh I realize you are just one and not all catholics are like you. Just you and big sister The other 60 millon (round #) are fine christians .I thank you for your attacks keep em coming. Is conffesion still held between 3 and 4 on Saturday afternoons ?
 
Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans do not have Tabernacles, do they? Don’t they believe that when communion is over the host once again becomes bread. Catholics believe that the host remains the actual physical body and blood of Christ forever.
Anglicans generally have Tabernacles, yes. I’ve never met an Anglican that held the doctrine that the Real Presence was transitory. That’s why we have the Tabernacle. And why we reverence the altar, whenever we pass it. And why there is a Presence lamp, burning constantly.

To be sure, Anglicans are difficult to generalize about. But, amongst the high church and the Anglo-Catholic variety, you’ll also find Eucharistic benediction and adoration of the Blessed Body. As in my parish.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *
 
Anglicans generally have Tabernacles, yes. I’ve never met an Anglican that held the doctrine that the Real Presence was transitory. That’s why we have the Tabernacle. And why we reverence the altar, whenever we pass it. And why there is a Presence lamp, burning constantly.

To be sure, Anglicans are difficult to generalize about. But, amongst the high church and the Anglo-Catholic variety, you’ll also find Eucharistic benediction and adoration of the Blessed Body. As in my parish.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *
Our Episcopal Church has a Tabernacle, and we are not “high and crazy”…😉

God Bless!
 
Our Episcopal Church has a Tabernacle, and we are not “high and crazy”…😉

God Bless!
Nor low and lazy, either, maybe.

Tabernacles are more common amongst the varieties of Anglicans than is Benediction and Adoration of the Sacrament.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus
 
Christ died once for all. He doesn’t keep dying over and over!
And your point would be ???

Did someone tell you the Catholic Church sacrifices Jesus at every Mass? If so, you have been misled. But this wouldn’t be the first time I guess.
 
Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans do not have Tabernacles, do they? Don’t they believe that when communion is over the host once again becomes bread. Catholics believe that the host remains the actual physical body and blood of Christ forever.
I guess I don’t know how to answer your question; all of the remaining elements are consumed or interred. When communion is over, all of the host is gone.
 
Christ died once for all. He doesn’t keep dying over and over!
To this the Roman Catholic church say’s Amen. Yet Jesus we know still lives. And is STANDING in heaven beheld as the Lamb of God looking as though slain. What does this reveal to you a standing (present tense) in the eternal worship of God. Also what does the scripture mean when it says my cup overuneth.

Jesus is offering to God our once and for all Sacrifice for all humanity past, present and future generations and ages to come until he returns. Because scripture states the once and for all, does not mean that Jesus eternal sacrifice has STOPPED. The cup overfilleth, and keeps running until the number of those that God the father only knows are to come into the kingdom of God.

To deny the sacrificial lamb of God who takes away the sins of the World, and that his true body,blood,soul and divinity are no longer is to deny the mercy and salvific work of God for ;humanity. For Jesus clearly states before eyewitnesses that you must eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life.

In the blessed Eucharist of transubstantiated bread and wine into the mystical body,blood,soul and divinity of our dear Lord Jesus Christ at his command makes these species his own by his Holy Spirit. For it is the Spirit that gives life to our mortal bodies while the flesh is on no avail.

Peace be with you
 
On the cross Jesus said, “It is finished.”
Yes, he had completed the 4th cup of the Passover Seder (the Last Supper) ~ the Paschal Sacrifice was complete. The Gospel shows that the Last Supper ended abruptly and before the seder was finished. Jesus finished it.

At the Mass we re-present this Sacrifice, just as Jesus said to do.
 
On the cross Jesus said, “It is finished.”
MelanieAnne answered your “finished” quote very well. I would need a little clarification from your understanding of what you think Jesus finished?

If your saying because Jesus died on the cross, his life expired so everything is finished as if to say Jesus work of redemption is over. There is much of Christianity that is not being stated here about it is finished.

No.1 Jesus resurrected and lives, so why is it that Jesus told Mary Magdala "Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father… I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

To grasp this wonderful mystery, then you would understand the “it is finished” part of the Sacrifice to the Father and our God. No one is to touch the Holy Sacrifice to God until God has recieved it. So what is Jesus doing standing in heaven as though slain. He is standing as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Yes it is finished as far as time is concerned, but Jesus resurrected now our High Priest before God, and presents the Lamb Sacrifice for our sins, not just in time, but eternally. That is why Jesus commands his holy apostles to eat and drink his body and blood truly present in the Eucharist. Because only the immediate family members of the High Priest of God are the only ones who are to consume the Sacrifice made to God in the hidden room. This Jesus fulfilled the Law and the prophets, as MelanieAnnie graciously introduced to you.

Now the true presence was not revealed to unbelievers in the first century Catholic church, it was called the Secret. (see writings of the early church fathers). Today since the third century the Roman Catholic church by St. Cyril was one of the first Catholic saints to openly teach the true presence, only because the Pagan Emperor of the Roman empire lifted the persecution of Catholic Christians who belived in the true presence.

Today to deny the true presence, first one must come to the knowledge of it before denying what you dont understand. This Sacrificial promise that God has promised to his children (family members) eternal life. The unbeliever is not excluded, unless he comes to the accurate knowledge of the true presence, and willingly rejects Jesus commandment to eat and drink his body and blood.

To understand these mysteries of the mystical body,blood,soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. First one must be baptized in the formula that Jesus commands his Church to do. Then come to the knowledge of the true presence. It is the Spirit that gives eternal life to those believers who consume the transubstantiated bread and wine of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, again where the flesh is of no avail.

Consider the breath you breathe at this moment it is not yours. It is the breath of God breathed into your nostrils that gives you life. So it is with the bread and wine, by the Word of God made flesh, Says to the bread and wine “Take and it eat, this is my body, Take and drink this is my blood in the new and everlasting covenant”, it is here that the bread and wine to our flesh senses bread and wine, but to our Soul the Holy Spirit by transubstantiation the bread and wine become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This true presence in the Eucharist gives us life to journey in this desert, and the bread from heaven to sustain us in the true passover from life unto death into everlasting life. This is the white ammulate given to the victor, this is how God will lift us up on that last day, where death has lost its sting to the victors.

I am sorry if I went into to much description, that is why I asked the question at the beginning. I am not sure what you understand about this 2000 year of practicing Christianity in the Roman Catholic church unchanged, or what you have been misinformed about the True christian faith, that is the fulfillment of Law and the Prophets of the old covenant.

Peace be with you.

P.S if you are going to make an objection please do with your reason so as not to go into unneccessary matters:) thank you
 
Hi Gabriel,

Jesuspaiditall has posted on other threads that the Pope carries Jesus around in a container and also exclaimed that Jesus died only once (as opposed to over and over). This last exclamation appeared to be an attempt He/she has talked to someone who has provided a great deal of “information” about the Catholic Church. Just FYI. 🙂
 
As for Methodists, here is how it is explained at revneal.org/Writings/realpresence.htm

United Methodists are part of the catholic tradition in the Church which teaches that the sacraments are means of grace, not just ordinances, and that when one partakes of the elements in Holy Communion we affirm that God’s grace is communicated to the believer. In the sacramental approach it is believed that the grace of Jesus Christ falls directly upon the elements of bread and wine, and then from the elements to the believer when the believer eats and drinks them with faith. The grace which is brought with it is the manifestation of the Real Presence of Jesus, dwelling in our hearts by God’s grace acting through faith (Ephesians 3:17).

This is NOT what Lutherans believe. It is NOT consubstantiation. There is a clear distinction between the real presence of Jesus’ grace and the real presence of Jesus’ body and blood.

From the United Methodist Church’s web site:
umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1341
Do United Methodists believe the communion elements actually become the body and blood of Christ?

“No, we believe that the change is spiritual. They signify the body and blood of Christ for us, helping us to be Christ’s body in the world today, redeemed by Christ’s blood.

Call it what you want, but the official doctrine of the UMC is not one of real presence.
I agreed with your last post, it was great but I do disagree with what you said about the Methodists in this post. I posted a very similar response in another very similar thread.

UMC Hymnal Liturgy for Communion:

“Pour out your Holy Spirit on us gathered here,
and on these gifts of bread and wine.
Make them be for us the body and blood of Christ,
that we may be for the world the body of Christ,

redeemed by his blood.
By your Spirit make us one with Christ,
one with each other,…” (UMH; pages 10, 14)

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Presence#Methodism_-Real_Presence_as.22Holy_Mystery.22

“In 2004, the United Methodist Church affirmed its view of the sacrament and its belief in the Real Presence in an official document entitled This Holy Mystery.”
 
Actually there are several Lutherans, Anglican and a few others that do indeed have valid orders and lines so it is possible for many of those denominations to indeed consecrate. They obtained valid orders through Bishops who have left Rome, and through cross-consecration of Bishops**(i.e. a group of bishops get together and each conditionally consecrate each other hoping that somewhere in the mix is a valid line)**
Uhm, actually I am not sure if this is possible that in the Lutheran Church are priests with valid orders…

With the Anglican Church, I agree.
The PNCC also has valid orders, as well as the Old Catholic Churches/in communion with Utrecht and also the Episcopolean Church.
As far as I know, other Protestant Churches don’t have valid orders.

I like your sentence in bold! 😃
 
40.png
ajatkinson:
Hi aj,
Welcome to CAF. A word of caution. The moderators have a policy regarding old threads.
If a thread has been dormant for more than 6 months, they do not want them responded to. Instead, begin a new thread on the topic.

Jon
 
I am SO confused right now. I just tried googling the terms, but I keep getting technical definitions and I’m really just not sure what the difference between transubstantiation and consubstantiation is and then isn’t there another theory out there? And what is everyone’s definition of “true presence?” becuase can you have presence with both transub AND consub? I’m so confused. Can someone give me layman’s terms? Or…little girl raised in a Baptist church terms? I’m not used to all the communion jargon lol

edit: Sorry, didn’t realize it was an old thread!! I’ll ask someone else 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top