Who can call themselves "Catholic?"

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Gertabelle

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I was at a Rosary for Life sponsored by our archdiocese many years ago (more than 15). It was led by a priest who authored one or more books and was fairly visible and outspoken about being true to Roman Catholic teachings.

Before we prayed the Rosary, this priest made a comment about those in the Church who disagreed with Church teachings. He said, “If you don’t agree with the Church, leave it so the rest of us can have OUR Church.” There was enthusiastic applause to this comment, but I just sat there shocked and quite upset.

So, not in response to that moment, I did leave the Church for some 14 years, and just returned this past summer. But that priest’s comment has haunted me for all these years. Presently, I am like the man whose son is possessed, who says to Jesus, “I do believe. Help my unbelief.” I have no desire to change one single thing about the Church, but my lack of faith is great. I say the prayers in Mass because that is what I’m told to do, and I open my heart to God, but I don’t know that I believe everything the Church teaches, or even the words I am praying.

Can I call myself Catholic? Can those who disagree with the Church on minor or even major issues call themselves Catholic? What does the Church teach on this?

Gertie (not my real name, but I like it)
 
Gertie,

The opposite of faith is doubt, right? No, wrong. The opposite of faith is certainty. If one is certain than one doesn’t need faith. Doubt is part of faith. If nothing else, it tells you the areas in your own life you need to ask the Holy Spirit for guidence and direction.

It sounds like you practice what the Church teaches and that you don’t work against the teachings of the Church.

You’re 100% Catholic in my opinion.
 
Hello Gertabelle,

In the old days (50 years ago and before) the thought was that only Catholics went to heaven. The Protestants and pagans all went to hell.

Now days the thought is that only Catholics go to heaven but even nonconverting Protestants and pagans can go to heaven through Jesus as Catholics.

With this shift, I hardly think that anyone should be out there telling Catholics (those baptized in the Catholics Church) that they are “not Catholics” no matter what they think. There are good Catholics and bad Catholics. Being even a bad Catholic does not make you not a Catholic.

I am not implying that you are a bad Catholic. I am saying that if the Church is including all the Protestants and pagans as being Catholic in regard to salvation, I hardly think they should again turn and start using the term Catholic, as to who is a Catholic and who is not a Catholic, against those within the fold who do not see things the way they feel they should see things. Priests can call people bad Catholics but to deny a Catholic of being Catholic seems out of line in an era where the Church is trying to convince the world that even the Pagans and Protestants are Catholic in regards to going to heaven.
 
Gertabelle said:
Can I call myself Catholic? Can those who disagree with the Church on minor or even major issues call themselves Catholic? What does the Church teach on this?
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Welcome back to the Church, Gertabelle.
I thought the comment of the priest was not right - how could we help unbelievers to believe if we did not welcome them?

If one is baptised as a Catholic and has never denounced being a Catholic, then he is always a Catholic.

Being called as a Catholic is different than being a Catholic. My point is that as a Catholic person, he should always pray to God to help him realize, accept, and be obedient to the truth teaching of the Church that Jesus created - one of the very important things for being a Catholic is obedience. Many people tend to break off from Catholic because of their lack of obedience.

Last night, I had a dream and was talking to someone how blessed it is that God allows me to know Him. As I am writing this, I also think how thankful I am to God that He let me know the truth of the Church.

Now, thinking for myself and you , God has given us the greatest opportunity to know His truth church, it is up to us to pray for having faith in the Church. I remember somewhere in the Bible that Jesus says something about if we are given more, God will ask/expect us more.

I know this person who does not want to go to the Church (maybe just the Christmas mass) and he is also in some kind of worshiping some lady. When asking him if he is no longer a Catholic, he replies " I am a Catholic".

yes, I agree, he is still Catholic but he does not live his life as a Catholic.

What do you think of him?

God bless.
 
Gertabelle said:
Can I call myself Catholic? Can those who disagree with the Church on minor or even major issues call themselves Catholic? What does the Church teach on this?
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Greetings Gertie!

Well if you are not a Catholic, because of your doubts, then neither are the rest of us. When we are graced with faith from the Lord Holy Spirit, it is like a mustard seed. We need to nourish it with hope, love and obedience to Christ’s Commandments. With that our faith will blossom! It could take a lifetime. You will fall, you will doubt and you will suffer along the way (Remember David, Peter, Thomas, Paul) and may even experience a time of spiritual dryness. And sure enough, well-meaning Catholics may upset you as well with their words or actions.

But if you cling to Christ in prayer - you will Persevere!

As for following the Church. I know what you mean. It’s very difficult not to be a “Cafeteria Catholic”, which is really what all other Christian denominations are. What worked for me was to study! study! study! Read scripture, the Catechism, the Early Church fathers, writings of the saints, apologetics (Gibbons, Sheen, Ratzinger, Hahn, Madrid etc…). You will learn that the teachings of the Church are the manifestation of the Wisdom of God. They are not rules meant to constrict but rather lights of truth to keep us on the right path in a dark, dark world.

Sincerely in Christ,
Corrgc

If you proclaim Christ Crucified for the Salvation of the World - then you are a Catholic. That includes Mary the Mother of our Lord to the thief on the Cross. Most of us fall somewhere in between.
 
Gertabelle said:
I was at a Rosary for Life sponsored by our archdiocese many years ago (more than 15). It was led by a priest who authored one or more books and was fairly visible and outspoken about being true to Roman Catholic teachings.

Before we prayed the Rosary, this priest made a comment about those in the Church who disagreed with Church teachings. He said, “If you don’t agree with the Church, leave it so the rest of us can have OUR Church.” There was enthusiastic applause to this comment, but I just sat there shocked and quite upset.

So, not in response to that moment, I did leave the Church for some 14 years, and just returned this past summer. But that priest’s comment has haunted me for all these years. Presently, I am like the man whose son is possessed, who says to Jesus, “I do believe. Help my unbelief.” I have no desire to change one single thing about the Church, but my lack of faith is great. I say the prayers in Mass because that is what I’m told to do, and I open my heart to God, but I don’t know that I believe everything the Church teaches, or even the words I am praying.

Can I call myself Catholic? Can those who disagree with the Church on minor or even major issues call themselves Catholic? What does the Church teach on this?

Gertie (not my real name, but I like it)
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You can call yourself Catholic if you do not reject a Catholic Doctrine. You can have doubt and not understand, but still not reject by always seeking to understand.

You can disgree with Church discipline, Laws, but as long as you obey them.

Devotions are always a personal choice.
 
Gertie,

I can’t help but think that priest was wrong for saying that. While I understand what he’s trying to say, it was rather harsh. Comments like that will only drive the unsure from the masses rather than embrace them and help them find their way. I hope I’m making sense.

I just wish that I could have found a place like this site when I needed it most, but the internet was in its infancy then. 😛

Welcome back, sweetie!
 
having faith is gift from God. Faith is a thological virtue that needs purifying.
Faith is the first thing that is purified by God. It is the virtue of the mind and when our mind is being purified there will be all kinds of doubts about the faith. Doubts about the faith, doubts about wether Jesus is truely present in the blessed Sacrament, doubts about the Blessed Mother,doubts about whether your sins are even forgiven in the confessional.

My point is that there is just one doubt after another. Its a painful thing because the devil torments our mind. But take heed because what happens through all this is that your faith becomes strenthened, as long as you are able through all this to say “yes” to God. To say Yes is a necessary thing for your faith to be able to grow.

So in light of this, I would say that every one baptized in the Catholic Church is definatlely Catholic. Were not perfect people, we are human beings with a mind and a will, we make good choices and bad ones…God gives us this agape love, its an unquestionable love that we are able to return as filius love just like Peter in the gospels. When Jesus says do you love me? to Peter and he replies you know I do…The actual translation for our one word “love” had two types of love Gods love for us, which is Agape and our love for God which is filius.

Welcome back to the Church and may God continue to do good works in you and through you!👍

Helen
 
👍
Br.Rich_SFO said:
You can call yourself Catholic if you do not reject a Catholic Doctrine. You can have doubt and not understand, but still not reject by always seeking to understand.

You can disgree with Church discipline, Laws, but as long as you obey them.

Devotions are always a personal choice.
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I guess my thoughts are what do you think a Catholic is?

If you have specific objections or concerns or doubts maybe its high time to get busy on getting them clarifyed instead of worrying about what a Priest said.

Have you had any formation?
 
Thank you all for your loving and thoughtful responses. Between my phone going bezerk and taking care of my three year old, there wasn’t much time to be on the internet this weekend.

I intend to take you advice, corrgc and Damascus, and start doing some reading (and praying about what I’m reading).

Spending time with my own question (posted here) and then considering all your answers, I have come to realize that some of what’s going on with me is my needing to choose whether I am going to be faithful to Church teachings, even the ones I don’t necessarily agree with, and the ones that are harder to live out in day to day life. Thanks to each of you who brought up the subject of obedience. Until my faith catches up with my actions, I can indeed practice obedience.

And yes, Damascus, I have had “formation”. I had 12 years of thorough and faith-filled Catholic school education, and I was even in a contemplative Benedictine monastery for two years, which included classes in Church history and a study of the Catholic Catechism. My knowledge is excellent. It’s my faith that is lacking.

God bless you all. And thank you again!

Gertie (not my real name, but I like it)
 
Any person who receives a valid Trinitarian baptized has their soul indelibly marked as a child of God. This makes you a member of His Universal Catholic Church, it is a free gift of God. Nothing you can ever do can remove this mark from your soul and it will be with you for eternity, whether your eternal resting place is in Hell or Heaven.

I am troubled by the comments of this Priest who caused you to leave the Church. The Church is to be refuge for sinners so that they might find a new way, the Way, Life and Truth. The first one who says they are so perfect as to “own” the Church will be the first in Hell.

Don’t worry about these words. We are all on a unique journey to find Christ. Don’t try to rush your journey. It is all on God’s time, not yours. Continue to allow the Church to escort you on your journey and you will find eternal Peace. God Bless.
 
This is mostly in response to the post by Damascus, but I am choosing to do this publicly rather than with a PM.

*Damascus writes:

Until your faith catches up with your actions?

Maybe we are missing each other in translation here. Firstly, I hope your actions are such that they are in line with all that the Church teaches, and I am not sure which ones could be an obstacle in that case. Am I understanding you correctly? I dont want to get this one wrong.*

What I mean by my faith catching up with my actions is this: I am doing what the Catholic Church teaches, but right now they are simply actions taken out of obedience. The teachings of the Church (receive the sacraments frequently, no sex outside of marriages blessed by the Church, pray and pray and pray, etc.) are things I do because I am choosing to let the Church lead me.

I am actually hoping that by attending Mass with an open and prayerful heart, by following the teachings of the Church, my faith in God, in Jesus, in the scriptures, in the Hope from which the teachings of the Church gain their authority – that my faith might return. I mean, for goodness sake, I was a nun for two years! I had faith. I knew the presence of God in every breath. Now, it seems all I can do is keep doing what the Church says to do, and see what happens.

*Damascus writes:
Looks like all the reading in the world is not the answer here. Looks like its something else, And I hope you will see that too.

Quote:
My knowledge is excellent. It’s my faith that is lacking.

Faith in the Church? Or faith in God? What exactly is lacking?
I need more to go on here.
Essentially., if what you say here is the case, maybe you did not understand what you were reading, or somehow missed a lot.*

I don’t know if reading will help or not. But out of integrity, I am following every path I know to increase in knowledge and faith. I also know that faith is a gift. Until I receive that gift, I don’t know what else to do except act as if I have it already.

Gertie
 
Gertabelle said:
I was at a Rosary for Life sponsored by our archdiocese many years ago (more than 15). It was led by a priest who authored one or more books and was fairly visible and outspoken about being true to Roman Catholic teachings.

Before we prayed the Rosary, this priest made a comment about those in the Church who disagreed with Church teachings. He said, “If you don’t agree with the Church, leave it so the rest of us can have OUR Church.” There was enthusiastic applause to this comment, but I just sat there shocked and quite upset.

So, not in response to that moment, I did leave the Church for some 14 years, and just returned this past summer. But that priest’s comment has haunted me for all these years. Presently, I am like the man whose son is possessed, who says to Jesus, “I do believe. Help my unbelief.” I have no desire to change one single thing about the Church, but my lack of faith is great. I say the prayers in Mass because that is what I’m told to do, and I open my heart to God, but I don’t know that I believe everything the Church teaches, or even the words I am praying.

Can I call myself Catholic? Can those who disagree with the Church on minor or even major issues call themselves Catholic? What does the Church teach on this?

Gertie (not my real name, but I like it)
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Gertie,

You may want to read some of this:
…In words taken directly from sections 14 and 31 of *Lumen gentium, *Book II of the Code of Canon Law begins by defining who are Christ’s Faithful: “those who, since they are incorporated into Christ through baptism, are constituted the people of God” (c. 204). This description applies to all Christians, Protestants and Orthodox as well as Catholics. The next canon defines who are Catholics: baptized persons who are “in full communion with the catholic Church here on earth (and) are joined with Christ in his visible body, through the bonds of profession of faith, the sacraments and ecclesiastical governance”.
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The nature or identity of a Catholic, then, is clear. Its essential feature, over and beyond baptism, is full *communion *with the *Catholic Church, *by which we are *joined to Christ *through the *bonds *of the faith, the sacraments, and the discipline of the Church. Each of these ecclesial bonds should be seen in terms of a link with Christ. Each represents a special encounter with Christ, and a special acceptance of Christ coming to meet us. They are not bonds that fetter us and hamper our movements, but bonds that join us to him, and so set us free…
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Catholics have the power to reject that communion with Christ. They do not have the right to reject it. They may do so; but if they do, they do wrong. And, as we shall now see, they suffer in consequence.
Particularly and very directly to our point, they do not have the right to “divide” Christ (cf. I Cor 1:13). In other words, they do not have the right to communion with Christ’s life in the Church’s sacraments, if they are not in communion with him - with his Thought and his Will - in her teaching and in her discipline…
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Authority and Freedom in the Church
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Wow fix, I was just going to PM you to see if you wouldnt mind me posting this as I saw you needed to on another thread (how sad is that?)

You beat me to it.👍

I think it ought to be in a reference section here in the forum so people can easily access it.
 
I think most- if not all- Catholics have doubts about specific Church teachings once in awhile- not that they doubt the Church necessarily, but that something they learn about the Church just doesn’t seem right to them. The important thing to understand is that the Church is infallible. We are not. If we disagree with something the Church teaches, it is because of our own misunderstanding. If we are sincerely looking for the truth, we will find it- but we must also, at times, accept on faith that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church that Jesus founded.
 
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