who can forgive sin

[eucharisteo]

The sacrament of reconciliation or confession as commonly known as, is a wonderful place to bring your imperfect life, to confess to the father and receive graces through the sacrament. I feel new every time I go. Its amazing how the Holy Spirit guides the good priests I know. They really do believe this and they allow the Holy Spirit to guide them through it. We love our Franciscan Friars.

 

[rev_kevin]

remember that the Sacrament of Reconcilliation not only reconciles us with God, it also reconcilles us with His Church

sin breaks many relationships, not just with God. Jesus asked us to confess to one another because we have hurt each other with our sins. we cannot say for certain that our sins are not forgiven if we directly pray to God and ask for forgiveness. of course God is forgiving and loving. but without the Sacrament of Confession, we are not reconcilled with the Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ where we should be a part of. we break this perfect union with the Church when we sin, thus it needs to be restored as well

So what you are saying is that God is not trustworthy, we can’t depend on him to forgive our sins, but a priest who really don’t know if you are truly sorry for your sins you can trust to be sure that your sins are forgive. Does he know more than God does when it comes to knowing if you really are truly sorry for your sins?
God is the church so why would you have to be reconciled to him twice. Or do you mean the CC needs you to reconcile to it?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Mark didn’t say that the sacrament of confession was the greatest builder in his life, he said that the sacrament of confession was the greatest builder of HUMILITY in his life. I’m positive that God is the greatest builder in his life too Rev.

The beauty of the sacrament of reconcilliation/confession is that it does build humility as it leads you to examine your internal thoughts and actions in reference to God’s Will in our lives. We actually stop and think through whether we need improvement in certain areas of our lives rather than ignoring that part of our salvation plan.

 

[T_More]

Rev Kevin, why would Christ give His disciples the power to forgive sin (John 20:21-23)? Why would the sick (sin) in James 5:13-15 need the elders (Greekresbyter=priest)? Why institute this? There must’ve been a reason.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Rev…alot of people shared many good points about going to a priest for confession…and you didn’t get it that Christ from the evening of the Resurrection is working through the ordained clergy today…there is a psychological and emotional benefit to going to someone who has the authority to lift the burden of sin off of you…

However, apparently, you don’t need this…soooooooo why bother then about us?

We are happy with the sacraments.

You are happy without them…

Now considering your excellent recall from early Catholic teachings…

I wonder what the Lord thinks with everything coming to light. Ecclesial relativism?

 

[choy]

So what you are saying is that God is not trustworthy, we can’t depend on him to forgive our sins, but a priest who really don’t know if you are truly sorry for your sins you can trust to be sure that your sins are forgive. Does he know more than God does when it comes to knowing if you really are truly sorry for your sins?
God is the church so why would you have to be reconciled to him twice. Or do you mean the CC needs you to reconcile to it?

i never said that. we can trust God to forgive our sins. the problem is a lot of people would assume what God is doing, “i believe God is this, i believe God is thinking that.” we can’t speak for God. so if we pray and then we say, “i believe God has forgiven my sins,” how are we certain that we are indeed speaking for God and not just wishful thinking? besides, Jesus gave authority to people on earth to forgive sins, why can’t we trust Jesus that these people have authority to do so?

remember, Jesus gave us two commandments, love God, and love one another. so confession repairs those two relationships that you have damaged with sin. reconcille us with God, and with one another (the Church)

 

[Dancelittleewok]

So what you are saying is that God is not trustworthy, we can’t depend on him to forgive our sins, but a priest who really don’t know if you are truly sorry for your sins you can trust to be sure that your sins are forgive. Does he know more than God does when it comes to knowing if you really are truly sorry for your sins?
God is the church so why would you have to be reconciled to him twice. Or do you mean the CC needs you to reconcile to it?

You’re creating a false dictonomy. No one has said God is untrustworthy or that God is the Church. The priest is acting in persona Christi. Catholics (and Lutherans) aren’t confessing to just a man but to God through a priest. The Church recognizes that sin doesn’t exist in a vaccum: it affects the sinner, any persons affected by the sin as well the Body of Christ. The Sacrament amends all these issues:

Before confessing to a priest, the pentients must have contrition and firm purpose of amendment. By confessing to the priest, Catholics are confessing to God. By confessing to a priest, whom is the Church’s representative, Catholics are amending the damage to the Body of Christ. By confessing to a priest, Catholics will receive penance to rectify the damage done to their neighbor and to God. By confessing to a priest, Catholics will know for certain that their sins have been forgiven and receive godly conseul to amend their lives to God.

 

[rev_kevin]

No fret like I said just wandering why.

rk,
did you never go to confession when you were Catholic?
Yes I have. But stoped because I no longer believed that a priest can do anything to forgive my sins. He says they are forgiven but how does he really know. They say the same thing everytime you confess do x amount of Hail Maries and x amount of Our Fathers or say the rosary x amount of times. I went through all the Sacraments and felt that it was just a ritual.

 

[rev_kevin]

You’re creating a false dictonomy. No one has said God is untrustworthy or that God is the Church. The priest is acting in persona Christi. Catholics (and Lutherans) aren’t confessing to just a man but to God through a priest. The Church recognizes that sin doesn’t exist in a vaccum: it affects the sinner, any persons affected by the sin as well the Body of Christ. The Sacrament amends all these issues:

Before confessing to a priest, the pentients must have contrition and firm purpose of amendment. By confessing to the priest, Catholics are confessing to God. By confessing to a priest, whom is the Church’s representative, Catholics are amending the damage to the Body of Christ. By confessing to a priest, Catholics will receive penance to rectify the damage done to their neighbor and to God. By confessing to a priest, Catholics will know for certain that their sins have been forgiven and receive godly conseul to amend their lives to God.

Not creating any false dictonomy, that is how I took what was told to me.

Confessing to a priest you are confessing to God. Why not go directly to God instead of through a 3rd party.
Can’t you ament the damage through God himself.

Since when did God ask for you to rectify anything to him. I have not read where God says I will forgive your sins only if you do this for me.

How do you know for sure that your sins are forgiven because a priest says so. They don’t know for sure if God forgave them or not.

 

[choy]

as a Catechist, i will answer this with the CCC

Not creating any false dictonomy, that is how I took what was told to me.

Confessing to a priest you are confessing to God. Why not go directly to God instead of through a 3rd party.
Can’t you ament the damage through God himself.

the Catholic Church teaches that only God forgives sin.

1441 Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: “Your sins are forgiven.” Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.

why confess to humans and not directly to God?

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: “All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly.”

When Christ’s faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, “for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know.”

Since when did God ask for you to rectify anything to him. I have not read where God says I will forgive your sins only if you do this for me.

How do you know for sure that your sins are forgiven because a priest says so. They don’t know for sure if God forgave them or not.

its in the quoted verse from the Bible in the last page

Jesus gave authority to the apostles, and the apostles gave this authority to their successors. we’re not saying that forgiveness of sins is exclusive to priests and bishops, but since they have the authority from Jesus to forgive sins, we know our sins are forgiven

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Not creating any false dictonomy, that is how I took what was told to me.

What I mean is that you are creating a false dictonomy between God and the priest:

Confessing to a priest you are confessing to God. Why not go directly to God instead of through a 3rd party.
Can’t you ament the damage through God himself.

We ARE going directly to God…through the priest. I don’t go to Confession to tell Fr. A or Fr. B my sins but to God. See my previous post for benefits that the Sacrament provides.

Since when did God ask for you to rectify anything to him. I have not read where God says I will forgive your sins only if you do this for me.

I believe someone before gave David and the prophet Nathan as an example. If there’s no temporal punishment for sin, then doesn’t the Word of Faith movement take this idea to the logical end?

How do you know for sure that your sins are forgiven because a priest says so. They don’t know for sure if God forgave them or not.

The Church doesn’t pronounce anything that Christ has not said first.

By confessing your sins without a priest:

1. How do you amend the damage done to the Body of Christ?
2. How do you receive godly conseul?
3. How do you rectify the damage done that your sins have caused to your neighbors?
4. How do you know for sure that God has forgiven you?

 

[rev_kevin]

i never said that. we can trust God to forgive our sins. the problem is a lot of people would assume what God is doing, “i believe God is this, i believe God is thinking that.” we can’t speak for God. so if we pray and then we say, “i believe God has forgiven my sins,” how are we certain that we are indeed speaking for God and not just wishful thinking? besides, Jesus gave authority to people on earth to forgive sins, why can’t we trust Jesus that these people have authority to do so?

remember, Jesus gave us two commandments, love God, and love one another. so confession repairs those two relationships that you have damaged with sin. reconcille us with God, and with one another (the Church)

See the problem is that you assume that God forgave your sins also. If you confess and the priest says your sins are forgiven, how are you certain that they are and not just wishful thinking.
Now you said that Jesus gave authority to “people”–“members of a family, the mass of a community as distenguished from a special class, a body of persons united by a common culture, tradition, or sense of kinship, typically having common language, institutions, and beliefs, and often politically organized. A body of enfranchised populace.” This could mean everyone not just certain ones.
Yes you are correct about the 2 commandments but a priest is not necessary to repair the relationships.
Yes you are once again correct that confession reconciles us with God and with one another but I don’t see one another as just the church.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

See the problem is that you assume that God forgave your sins also. If you confess and the priest says your sins are forgiven, how are you certain that they are and not just wishful thinking.
Now you said that Jesus gave authority to “people”–“members of a family, the mass of a community as distenguished from a special class, a body of persons united by a common culture, tradition, or sense of kinship, typically having common language, institutions, and beliefs, and often politically organized. A body of enfranchised populace.” This could mean everyone not just certain ones.
Yes you are correct about the 2 commandments but a priest is not necessary to repair the relationships.
Yes you are once again correct that confession reconciles us with God and with one another but I don’t see one another as just the church.

Aren’t you assuming that God has forgiven you? How do you know that God has forgiven your sins after you mentally confess to Him?

Since Catholics (and Lutherans) confess their sins to God through a priest I don’t see how you can say that we are suffering from self-deception.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Confessing to a priest you are confessing to God. Why not go directly to God instead of through a 3rd party.
Can’t you ament the damage through God himself.

I go directly to God in prayer, in praise, and in thanksgiving. God comes directly to me through the word of Absolution spoken by a called servant of Christ. He comes directly to me through His Body and Blood given and shed for me in His Supper, He comes to me through my Baptism and daily buries my sinful nature with Christ and raises it up to new life, and He comes to me through His word preached to me.

Grace is God coming to me, not me going to God. My duty as a creature is to go to God in prayer and worship. This is Law, not Gospel. The Gospel is God condescending out of pure mercy to come to me and redeem me.

 

[rev_kevin]

What I mean is that you are creating a false dictonomy between God and the priest:

We ARE going directly to God…through the priest. I don’t go to Confession to tell Fr. A or Fr. B my sins but to God. See my previous post for benefits that the Sacrament provides.
This makes no sense to me at all. Lets say I want to go directly to John but I go to Roger first. Did I go directly to John or did I go to Roger first then go to John? Going directly means nothing in between, a straight line, you cannot go directly through someone to go directly to someone else.

I believe someone before gave David and the prophet Nathan as an example. If there’s no temporal punishment for sin, then doesn’t the Word of Faith movement take this idea to the logical end? Can you give a example from the NT?

The Church doesn’t pronounce anything that Christ has not said first.

By confessing your sins without a priest:

1. How do you amend the damage done to the Body of Christ?By confessing to God.
2. How do you receive godly conseul?If you need it you can go to your paster but you don’t need it everytime you confess.
3. How do you rectify the damage done that your sins have caused to your neighbors?By asking them for forgiveness.
4. How do you know for sure that God has forgiven you?

If you are truly sorry he will forgive. By having faith that God will forgive as he says. You don’t need a human to tell you something they don’t know for sure.

 

[rev_kevin]

I go directly to God in prayer, in praise, and in thanksgiving. God comes directly to me through the word of Absolution spoken by a called servant of Christ. He comes directly to me through His Body and Blood given and shed for me in His Supper, He comes to me through my Baptism and daily buries my sinful nature with Christ and raises it up to new life, and He comes to me through His word preached to me.

Grace is God coming to me, not me going to God. My duty as a creature is to go to God in prayer and worship. This is Law, not Gospel. The Gospel is God condescending out of pure mercy to come to me and redeem me.

What does this have to do with my answer about confessing directly to God?

 

[TriuneUnity]

What does this have to do with my answer about confessing directly to God?

Confessing to God directly is not grace. Grace is God coming to me and through His servant absolving me of my sins.

 

[rev_kevin]

Aren’t you assuming that God has forgiven you? How do you know that God has forgiven your sins after you mentally confess to Him?I think I can answer for both of us, I don’t know for sure and you don’t know for sure.

Since Catholics (and Lutherans) confess their sins to God through a priest I don’t see how you can say that we are suffering from self-deception.

The same way you say I’m suffering from self-deception.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Rev Kevin,
Since your answering are in my post, the quote function isn’t working to reply to you so I’m going to do it this way.

It makes sense: God has decreed that we are confess our sins to His representatives. The idea of mediatorship has been shown throughout Scripture in Moses, the prophets, etc. and the existence of the Scripture itself. You don’t believe that you don’t need the Bible when you can talk to God Himself right?

In order to deal with Catholicism, you are going to have deal with on what we believe, not what you think we believe. When Catholics are going to Confession, we believe we are confessing to God since God Himself has called these priest into service, created the Sacrament and created a Church to facilate this Sacrament. In the Catholic mindset, there’s no “barrier” between me, God, and the priest. Since you’ve acknowledged that if you are sorry (contrition is a requirement for the Sacrament in the first place), then God will forgive then I don’t see how this doesn’t apply to Confession as well.

 

[rev_kevin]

Confessing to God directly is not grace. Grace is God coming to me and through His servant absolving me of my sins.

1. Grace-God’s free and unmerited favor toward sinful humanity. 2. Grace-Favor. God’s free gift and underserved love that never quits. 3. Grace-is the gift of God that comes as eternal life through Jesus Christ. 4. Grace-help held to be given man by God especially in overcomming temptation (sin) or in leading a good life. A state of freedom from sin and of love for God held to be enjoyed through divine grace.
   I have given 4 meanings of grace and I dont see that Grace is God coming through his servant absolving me of my sins. I don’t see that God’s grace has to come through his servant.