who can forgive sin

[choy]

Got it I may not think that confessing to a priest is necessary but I get what you are saying.

well, confessing to a priest or bishop is necessary because Christ says so

 

[Newbie2]

Ok let me get this straight. Its not actually the priest that forgives sin its actually Jesus. Jesus is acting through the priest who is acting like Jesus. The priest isn’t actually forgiving sin its Jesus and the priest is acting in place of Jesus. So in persona Christi is Jesus acting through the priest who is acting like Jesus. Is that pretty close to what it means?

Got it I may not think that confessing to a priest is necessary but I get what you are saying.

That was explained to you many, many posts ago, in fact, in another thread. The priest is acting in the place of Jesus…in persona Christi. Glad you finally understand it, even if you don’t believe it. Although…if you had been Catholic as you say, and had been to confession, it’s a little difficult to see how you had so much difficulty up until now understanding the concept.

 

[KathleenGee]

I know of somebody else, no several, who bring up issues, they are explained, it dies down and then the same questions come back up.

On post 90, I thought I gave a good reason why we are a church…a church brings the social dimension to our faith.

Choy said, well, if you don’t need Eucharist or confession–ignoring Christ’s directives both times in Scripture—at the Last Supper and the evening of the Resurrection when Christ appeared in His ascended state—He is being ignored by you. So she said, then why both with baptism…??

So then I am thinking now since you believe in the Bible alone and no history of Christianity–divorced from our family tree that goes way back -------dang, I wish we had the same desire to retain our culture and unity as the Jews do -------, then,

I mean, so if people all go out and get their Bibles, then they have everything and don’t even RevKevin!!!

They can do it themselves with the Holy Spirit, don’t go to church, don’t pay for anything but themselves and their own home churches and the Gospel.

So RevKevin, some day you may generate more people like you and say, 'Hey, I don’t need him!!! I can do it myself with the Holy Spirit!

 

[eucharisteo]

Cool My daughter’s, the MP her x-husband was tanker overseas in Iraq for 2 years. Her current husband spent 3 years there has been shot and he showed up right at the place where they captured Sadum Hussien. Right after they go him. He saw him coming out of his hole. Me I liked working on auto’s but I spent about 3 years doing that. I really like to cook and still do. As far as working on cars it has gotten too complicated over a 30 year period.

Now that is a cool story to tell. Gotta be proud of them. I certainly am and don’t even know them. The most valuable thing I gained from the Army was leadership skills and the audacity to speak my mind plainly, sometimes which doesn’t go well with those that don’t get it… civilians.

Thanks for your service. I too have issues working on cars today… 30 years of technology…we might as well call them computers on wheels.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Now that is a cool story to tell. Gotta be proud of them. I certainly am and don’t even know them. The most valuable thing I gained from the Army was leadership skills and the audacity to speak my mind plainly, sometimes which doesn’t go well with those that don’t get it… civilians.

LOL…Once you’ve plummeted from an airplane in airborne school, you tend not to care what civilians think anymore.

 

[eucharisteo]

That was explained to you many, many posts ago, in fact, in another thread. The priest is acting in the place of Jesus…in persona Christi. Glad you finally understand it, even if you don’t believe it. Although…if you had been Catholic as you say, and had been to confession, it’s a little difficult to see how you had so much difficulty up until now understanding the concept.

I can clearly understand how anyone from our age group could have missed some important points growing up. 30 years ago catechesis was horrible in general. Further complicating the problem would be parents not practicing or not knowing as well, which could also be caused by poor Catholic education, not to mention all of the dissenters. The Catholic Church is full of dissenters running the show behind the scenes. Heretics one might say, or sloths as “RealCatholicTV.com” puts it here. In fact, what really amazed me is the fact that Fr. Corapi put it best: “if it were a corporation it would have been bankrupt long ago, if it were an army it would have been slaughtered”. The fact is that the only reason the Catholic Church still exists today is that only God could be behind its protection. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is guided and protected by God the Holy Spirit.

Take the time to listen to the RealCatholicTV.com posted on YouTube. It explains exactly what I witnessed growing up and why I fled the Church many years ago, but found myself humbling myself by coming back home to the Catholic Church…kicking and screaming as it may be.

 

[blazerdave]

Only through a hie to Kolob can sins be forgiven.

 

[rev_kevin]

Someone needs a doctor because fo the most part we DON’T know our own bodies and DON’T know how to heal diseases and repair wounds - not our own nor anybody else’s. This presumes that a doctor has special access to knowledge and skills that the rest of society doesn’t have.

But by your theology we ALL have direct access to God for everything we need and need nothing more than to ask Him directly (and/or read scripture) and He will provide all directly to us who need it.

That’s just like saying EVERYONE has all the medical skills necessary (or would have if all were given medical texts and instruments) to heal their own illnesses and treat their own wounds. What need for doctors then? None. What use are they even, if this is the case? None, really.

So, again, what need and use for ministers if we follow your logic? Equally, it seems, none at all.

I noticed you only picked one part of what I said and that was it. I explained it to you but you only focused on the Dr. thing. Wasn’t it Jesus that said a well person don’t need a Dr. but a sick one and that he was here not to call the righious but the sinners? Same thing here I or any minister are not here to call on the rightous but the sinners and once they accept Christ its up to us to continue ministering to the in their faith so they will stay as one of God’s children. Is a ditch diggers job any less then a CEO. They all serve a purpose and the same for us. Is a minister’s job any less then a priest we both serve a purpose whiich is to bring and keep people as children of God

Who do you pray to in your time of need? Do you pray to a priest or to God? If you bothered to read a few postes back the working through others was brought up and I had to agree with the poster. God works through people to accomplish things. I did not say that God will directly come to you with the answer or provide everything you ask for. But if God sees fit then he will provide you what you need, it may be through a 3rd, 4th or 5th party.

I did not say the priest don’t serve a purpose I just don’t see the need for them in confession when you can go directly to God and ask for forgiveness.

If you think a minister is not necessary then that is your hang up. Like I said we alll serve a purpose in doing the work of God.

 

[rev_kevin]

doctors need to be certified to become doctors. they have to have educational training and they need a license from the state/province/country that they can practice their professions. a doctor in the US cannot be doctor in other countries without obtaining a license from that country.

my question to rev kevin, where did you get your license and by who’s authority are you able to practice your profession?

Personally I don’t really think that I have to give that information to you.
No matter where or by who I say you will say that it don’t count so why bother.

 

[rev_kevin]

That was explained to you many, many posts ago, in fact, in another thread. The priest is acting in the place of Jesus…in persona Christi. Glad you finally understand it, even if you don’t believe it. Although…if you had been Catholic as you say, and had been to confession, it’s a little difficult to see how you had so much difficulty up until now understanding the concept.

I was Catholic and went to confession because that is what a “good” Catholic is supose to do.

 

[Nicea325]

I was Catholic and went to confession because that is what a “good” Catholic is supose to do.

So what! Does not mean you understood the sacramental part of your faith,which is not uncommon in the Protestant world.

 

[rev_kevin]

Now that is a cool story to tell. Gotta be proud of them. I certainly am and don’t even know them. The most valuable thing I gained from the Army was leadership skills and the audacity to speak my mind plainly, sometimes which doesn’t go well with those that don’t get it… civilians.

Thanks for your service. I too have issues working on cars today… 30 years of technology…we might as well call them computers on wheels.

Thank you for your service also. I must agree with you on them being computers on wheels. It seem now a day you have to have a Masters in computer technology just to work on then. The shade tree machanic is a thing of the past. :sad_bye:

 

[Bill_Pick]

I think your making a good point, and one that should be argued for and against very, very carefully, which you are, this is just a reminder!

I think this is a matter of faith, not reason. For example, “I have faith that confession with a priest absolves sins through God” and “God alone, no priest needed” Well, it’s tough to argue!

This is, clearly, just my opinion, and I hope I didn’t offend anyone or not portray it well. It just is heartbreaking to me to have so many divisions in the church of Christianity.

If in reading the Bible you will see that are Lord Jesus Christ give the power of the HS to the Apostals,and Jesus Christ is the only one to forgive sin with the help of a priests

 

[rev_kevin]

So what! Does not mean you understood the sacramental part of your faith,which is not uncommon in the Protestant world.

I disagree with it and always have even as a Catholic. There are parts that you probably don’t understand about your faith but you just accept them because that is what you were taught or told to believe. It has nothing to do with being Protestant.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

There is only one mediator to God and that is Jesus.
You don’t believe…I don’t quite understand what you are trying to say.
I am dealing on what you believe, I am asking questions and simply responding to what is being said. I see call it as I see it.
I never said that it don’t apply to confession. I question the need for a priest.

Did I say that I don’t believe that Jesus is the Mediator? One cannot deny that Trinity, including God the Son, used mediators throughout salvation history. Catholics aren’t denying that God forgives sins; what you and I are in a disagreement is the how, not who.

 

[choy]

Personally I don’t really think that I have to give that information to you.
No matter where or by who I say you will say that it don’t count so why bother.

thats fine

the point was, authority was passed on from Jesus to the priests today. thats why they have authority

correct me if i’m wrong, but Baptists don’t claim any Apostolic Succession, correct? valid or otherwise. because there are many who do, besides the Catholics and Orthodox, there are other schismatic and some protestant denominations who claim valid succession (whether its actually valid or not is another issue)

this is vital in the authority to forgive sins

using your analogy, we have valid doctors in our Church because they have been trained and certified by other doctors who were trained and certified by other doctors, and so on and so forth, until the first ones who were trained and certified by the one who began Medicine

the authority isn’t simply earned by reading the bible and claiming it for yourself. if you read the bible, many have preached Jesus in the past but not all have authority to teach and give the Sacraments. thats why there’s discipleship, to train those to be worthy of such authority

 

[rev_kevin]

If in reading the Bible you will see that are Lord Jesus Christ give the power of the HS to the Apostals,and Jesus Christ is the only one to forgive sin with the help of a priests

So when does Jesus need help in forgiving sin from a priest. I was told that a priest can not forgive sin he is only acting as Jesus Christ or in persona Christi or as a agent. So if a priest is not there to help Christ to forgive sin then the sin is not forgiven?

 

[rev_kevin]

thats fine

the point was, authority was passed on from Jesus to the priests today. thats why they have authority

correct me if i’m wrong, but Baptists don’t claim any Apostolic Succession, correct? valid or otherwise. because there are many who do, besides the Catholics and Orthodox, there are other schismatic and some protestant denominations who claim valid succession (whether its actually valid or not is another issue)

this is vital in the authority to forgive sins

using your analogy, we have valid doctors in our Church because they have been trained and certified by other doctors who were trained and certified by other doctors, and so on and so forth, until the first ones who were trained and certified by the one who began Medicine

the authority isn’t simply earned by reading the bible and claiming it for yourself. if you read the bible, many have preached Jesus in the past but not all have authority to teach and give the Sacraments. thats why there’s discipleship, to train those to be worthy of such authority

I’m not going to get into it with you whether or not I have the authority to spread the word of God, to teach others about God and so forth. I don’t know where you are getting that we get our “authority” by simply reading the Bible and claiming it for ourselves.

 

[Nicea325]

I disagree with it and always have even as a Catholic. There are parts that you probably don’t understand about your faith but you just accept them because that is what you were taught or told to believe. It has nothing to do with being Protestant.

Yes many may disagree,but nothing new,but does not disprove the sacrament in any shape or form. Disagreements is not proof,but a private judgment.

What makes you assume what I may or may not understand?
It has nothing to do being Protestant? Not for you,but for many it does have to do being Protestant because they have no clue or an understanding of the sacraments.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

So when does Jesus need help in forgiving sin from a priest. I was told that a priest can not forgive sin he is only acting as Jesus Christ or in persona Christi or as a agent. So if a priest is not there to help Christ to forgive sin then the sin is not forgiven?

dnu:

As noted, it is the sacramental presence of Christ, acting through the Priest, that forgives the sin/sins. So in essence, Jesus is the only one who can forgive the sin, just as you have noted several times. We completely agree.

No one here has said that God needs help. God is infinite, meaning He lacks nothing. He didn’t have to create us or even save us. The priest, while he is contingent, is a necessary component of Confession…and this doesn’t diminish God in any way since Catholics (and other sacramental Protestants) believe that God Himself created this Sacrament.