Who can give a homily?

[rlg94086]

I just say your wink. I should have read more carefully.

No problem. The thread was originally in the Traditional Catholicism forum, so I posted it to elicit a chuckle from my “traditional” Catholic friends. “NO” is also used as an abbreviation in that forum, so posters should be careful when capitalizing the word no.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I understand from a previous thread (mine) that concelebration wasn’t around pre-VII. Do you know if priests in attendence, but not celebrating the Mass were allowed to do the homily pre-VII?

I don’t, but I’m sure there are others here who can remember that far back.

 

[Chortle]

Are the instructions in the GIRM requirements that must be followed or just recommendations? Also, can the bishop overrule the GIRM? This is important because I plan to talk to the priest about this and I want to be on sound footing. This priest, in recent months, has been asking women to give the homily about once a month. This is a new practice in the parish and I thought that the bishop may have relaxed his policy about this.

 

[rlg94086]

Are the instructions in the GIRM requirements that must be followed or just recommendations? Also, can the bishop overrule the GIRM? This is important because I plan to talk to the priest about this and I want to be on sound footing. This priest, in recent months, has been asking women to give the homily about once a month. This is a new practice in the parish and I thought that the bishop may have relaxed his policy about this.

They must be followed. There are cases where the Bishop is given authority (kneeling during the Agnus Dei, for instance), but having a layperson say the homily is not one of them.

Here is a link to the same question/answer on the AAA forum:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=7831&highlight=GIRM

Here is some of the answer…

“The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.” (GIRM 66)

Earlier this year, at the request of Pope John Paul II, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacrament in Rome issued a new document, Redemptionis Sacramentum (RS), designed to stop liturgical abuses. Specifically concerning preaching of homily, the document reiterates GIRM 66 and adds the following:

“It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the Eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon [law]. This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.” (RS 65)
…
“Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.” (RS 184)

 

[rlg94086]

Here is another AAA response (this one on standing during the Eucharistic Prayer) that addresses the GIRM:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=180965&postcount=2’

I doubt that your priest realizes how serious his deviation from liturgical law is. So many clergy (and I was among them at one time) consider rubrics to be guides and not to be “slavishly” adhered to. The fact that they are laws which govern the most sublime and sacred actions that take place on the face of the earth has not really registered with them.

It is for you to heed the authority of the Church in the matter of Divine Worship. Father simply does not have the authority to go against liturgical law.

 

[puzzleannie]

I knew this, I was just having fun.

I have been to a parish that has had a lay person do the homily, one of them had the parish finance person (happened to be a woman, but that is irrelevant) review the parish’s financial situation in lieu of the homily. These are certainly abuses.

if a lay person gives an address on some topic, such as a financial report, the missions, a parish program, it is not by definition a homily. Such an address should never replace the homily. The priest must give at least a brief comment on the readings, before deferring to another speaker, but ideally those non-homily remarks should be at another time-before Mass, after communion etc.

 

[rlg94086]

if a lay person gives an address on some topic, such as a financial report, the missions, a parish program, it is not by definition a homily. Such an address should never replace the homily. The priest must give at least a brief comment on the readings, before deferring to another speaker, but ideally those non-homily remarks should be at another time-before Mass, after communion etc.

More from one of the earlier links I provided…

“If the need arises for the gathered faithful to be given instruction or testimony by a layperson in a Church concerning the Christian life, it is altogether preferable that this be done outside Mass. Nevertheless, for serious reasons it is permissible that this type of instruction or testimony be given after the Priest has proclaimed the Prayer after Communion. This should not become a regular practice, however. Furthermore, these instructions and testimony should not be of such a nature that they could be confused with the homily,*** nor is it permissible to dispense with the homily on their account.”*** (RS 74)

“As was already noted above, the homily on account of its importance and its nature is reserved to the Priest or Deacon during Mass. As regards other forms of preaching, if necessity demands it in particular circumstances, or if usefulness suggests it in special cases, lay members of Christ’s faithful may be allowed to preach in a church or in an oratory outside Mass in accordance with the norm of law. This may be done only on account of a scarcity of sacred ministers in certain places, in order to meet the need, and it may not be transformed from an exceptional measure into an ordinary practice, nor may it be understood as an authentic form of the advancement of the laity. All must remember besides that the faculty for giving such permission belongs to the local Ordinary, and this as regards individual instances; this permission is not the competence of anyone else, even if they are Priests or Deacons.” (RS 161)

 

[Ace86]

Do you mean Novus Ordo exceptions or no exceptions (as in none)?

Cute. You can bet there have been *in the past *women homilists at Novus Ordo masses before.

 

[Titus]

I have seen priests other than the celebrant preach the homily at the TLM. They wear choir dress. It is also allowed in some circumstances in the NO.

 

[cyberwolf001]

if a lay person gives an address on some topic, such as a financial report, the missions, a parish program, it is not by definition a homily. Such an address should never replace the homily. The priest must give at least a brief comment on the readings, before deferring to another speaker, but ideally those non-homily remarks should be at another time-before Mass, after communion etc.

At my Parish I believe the reports are given right after the Deacon says “The Mass has ended” or it’s the last thing said before the Deacon declares the Mass ended…

 

[KatieD]

Apparently we have a parish nearby where the pastor allows his “pastoral associate” (whatever that is) to give the homily. SHE is a lay person. When I expressed concern over this, I was told that he is “progressive” and “knows what we need”! I’m very glad I don’t belong to this parish.

 

[G_S]

if a lay person gives an address on some topic, such as a financial report, the missions, a parish program, it is not by definition a homily. Such an address should never replace the homily. The priest must give at least a brief comment on the readings, before deferring to another speaker, but ideally those non-homily remarks should be at another time-before Mass, after communion etc.

Not exactly true. Such remarks may not take place at the time designated for the homily. The U.S. bishops have designated the time after the closing prayer/prayer after communion as the time for such remarks and they may not of a nature that can be confused with the homily. The priest may not canonically defer to another non-ordained speaker at the conclusion of a mini-homily, although this is the practice winked at in many places. If the Holy See were to simply state that one’s Sunday obligation was not satisfied at a Mass where this was done, the practice would stop.

 

[Titus]

Not exactly true. Such remarks may not take place at the time designated for the homily. The U.S. bishops have designated the time after the closing prayer/prayer after communion as the time for such remarks and they may not of a nature that can be confused with the homily.

I think you mean between the prayer after communion and the closing prayers? IE before the ‘May almighty God Bless you’

 

[G_S]

Between the closing prayer and the blessing and dismissal.

 

[johnnydigit]

if a lay person gives an address on some topic, such as a financial report, the missions, a parish program, it is not by definition a homily. Such an address should never replace the homily. The priest must give at least a brief comment on the readings, before deferring to another speaker, but ideally those non-homily remarks should be at another time-before Mass, after communion etc.

i was wondering about that, too. so even if the priest does give an adequate homily, is he not allowed to let a lay person say anything afterwards during that time (between the Gospel and Creed)? it sounds like a no, and not difficult to have them speak after communion.

 

[G_S]

Correct, a priest may not allow a lay person to speak after the homily. This practice is a ruse used to get around the clear meaning of canon law. The prudent use of dialogue is allowed for special reasons. Unfortunately, many people use this allowance as a justification for the priest to give a mini-homily which is then followed by a lay person preaching. Recent documents make it clear that, if a lay person gives a talk, it must not be of a nature that would lead someone to confuse it with a homily.

Keep something in mind as well. The mainline Protestant churches traditionally saw the role of the clergy as consisting primarily as preaching. Hence, the minister often wore an academic robe when preaching. His qualification to preach derived from his superior education. When I was ordained, most of the cards I received from Protestants read, “Congratulations on your graduation.” The Free Churches – e.g., Baptist – saw preaching as a call and generally did not require higher education. So, on Layman Sunday, a member of the congreagation would often be asked to preach. If I had to pick between only those two, I would opt for the Free Church tradition but we have a liturgical tradition which sees preaching as connected to the sacrifice of the Mass. As a liturgical act, preaching at the Eucharistic Liturgy is therefore the role of the ordained. Their authority to preach is derived from their ordination.

 

[Apryl]

It ain’t allowed. Only ordained men may give homilies. There are NO exceptions.

… can it be ‘worked around’? That is, can the Priest/Deacon give a homily, and then, allow a woman to give a speech to the congregation?

 

[Brendan]

… can it be ‘worked around’? That is, can the Priest/Deacon give a homily, and then, allow a woman to give a speech to the congregation?

No. The woman would have to give the speech after Communion during the time reserved for announcemnts.

 

[maciejk60]

EDIT In my diocese I have experienced a similar thing. Men studying for the Deaconate (not the priesthood) and in the last few weeks of training are given the opportunity to give “Reflections” right after the Gospel at Mass.

I asked the same thing of my Pastor and of the future Deacon. Both said it was approved by the Bishop and by the way was not a Homily, but a reflection. I guess changing the name makes it OK! I was also asked, where else are they going to practice!

But we also have visiting Nuns, during their fund raising campaign, give “reflections” right after the Gospel at Sunday Mass. I asked about this and was told if they waited for after the Mass, everyone would leave before the talk was over. So it was OK! Forget the Canon Law and the GRIM!

 

[plato3]

Our bishop gave permission for the deacon candidates to reflect at weekday Mass, but it is always up to the pastor. Our pastor did not allow it.

plato3