Who can I defer to in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?

[joe370]

Is the bread at the Lord’s table only bread, or is it the Body of Christ? Zwingli will tell you one thing; Luther, another, and these were the very first leaders of the reformed church that spearhead the reformation. To whom can I defer in the protestant sphere for the correct answer?

 

[scottm]

There is no single leader for all branches of Protestantism. This is by design.

For a given branch, there is no timeless leader.

 

[Nine_Two]

Given that Protestants don’t claim to be united under one leader the question is moot. Protestantism is a movement not a creed. If you want to know what a particular denomination believes you ask that denomination.

Your question is much like if an atheist were to ask “What do theists believe concerning Jesus.” Obviously there are different lines of thought on that, but this fact does not prove or disprove any one of these.

 

[joe370]

=Nine_Two;7197972]Given that Protestants don’t claim to be united under one leader the question is moot.

Wow…

Protestantism is a movement not a creed. If you want to know what a particular denomination believes you ask that denomination.

So your answer is: No one can clear this up for me in the protestant sphere. Got it.

Your question is much like if an atheist were to ask “What do theists believe concerning Jesus.” Obviously there are different lines of thought on that, but this fact does not prove or disprove any one of these.

Not even close.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

And may I add…that answer is different depending on which protestant denomination. For Lutherans…its Jesus in there with the bread and wine (consubstantiation) and some of the denominations I was in…it’s just a symbol. There is no ONE answer for all of the protestant sphere.

 

[joe370]

=scottm;7197963]There is no single leader for all branches of Protestantism. This is by design.

By the design of God???

For a given branch, there is no timeless leader.

No one leader in the Protestant sphere was given the keys to bind and loose. I know. So your anser is: no one???

 

[rev_kevin]

And may I add…that answer is different depending on which protestant denomination. For Lutherans…its Jesus in there with the bread and wine (consubstantiation) and some of the denominations I was in…it’s just a symbol. There is no ONE answer for all of the protestant sphere.

Where does Jesus say he is in the bread?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Where does Jesus say he is in the bread?

Hmmm…did I say I believed he was with the bread? No…but that is what Lutherans believe. Jesus said it was his flesh and blood. Real food and real drink. John 6. He did not go back and clarify…even after most of his disciples left him. In fact He goes on to repeat himself 7 times.

But I suspect this is something you and I will never agree on. I was answer for the OP as to what different Protestants believe. I think you would have to agree that what…Lutherans believe is very different then what Baptists believe…correct?

 

[rev_kevin]

Hmmm…did I say I believed he was with the bread? No…but that is what Lutherans believe. Jesus said it was his flesh and blood. Real food and real drink. John 6. He did not go back and clarify…even after most of his disciples left him. In fact He goes on to repeat himself 7 times.

But I suspect this is something you and I will never agree on. I was answer for the OP as to what different Protestants believe. I think you would have to agree that what…Lutherans believe is very different then what Baptists believe…correct?

So is Jesus present or not in the bread?
I agree with you that Lutherans believe different than Baptists and both believe something different than the Catholics.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

So is Jesus present or not in the bread?
I agree with you that Lutherans believe different than Baptists and both believe something different than the Catholics.

Catholics believe what Jesus said…it is no longer the bread and wine after the concencration but His flesh and blood. There are enough Eucharistic miracles to show that. But for those who do not believe…no proof will ever be enough. For those that believe…no proof is necessary.

Lutherans believe that Jesus is in which the bread and wine.

I would say that Lutherans and Catholics are much closer in their beliefs then Baptist. I used to belong to a Baptist church.

 

[bnbkaine]

So is Jesus present or not in the bread?

rev kevin- As Annabelle Marie said, Catholics believe that “it is no longer the bread and wine after the concencration but His flesh and blood.” Are you attempting to bait us here? I only ask because this knowledge hasn’t changed or adapted in 2000 years.

 

[Nine_Two]

Wow…

So your answer is: No one can clear this up for me in the protestant sphere. Got it.

Not even close.

Do you have real rebuttals, or just dishonest sophistry and polemics?

Pretending that the existence of two opinions negates them both only negates your own opinions when taken on a larger scale. While some Protestants believe in the Real Presence, and others do not, taken up a step to include Catholics, some Christians believe in the Real Presence and others do not. In no way does this dilemma answer which church organization is correct in its beliefs.

 

[joe370]

Kevin, I think the first thing we need to do is establish who has the authority to decide whether or not the bread is a symbol of Jesus’ Body or Jesus’ Body. It is not 't me or you, so who is it???

You said: So is Jesus present or not in the bread? The bread transforms into Jesus’ Body as per the bible.

Where does the bible say: this is a symbol of my body???

So is Jesus present or not in the bread?
I agree with you that Lutherans believe different than Baptists and both believe something different than the Catholics.

 

[rev_kevin]

rev kevin- As Annabelle Marie said, Catholics believe that “it is no longer the bread and wine after the concencration but His flesh and blood.” Are you attempting to bait us here? I only ask because this knowledge hasn’t changed or adapted in 2000 years.

I know what Catholics believe, heck I was one. Where does it say 2000 years ago that he is in the bread?
Where is this knowledge you speak? Can you give me a book and verse where this can be found?
This is my body don’t mean he is in the bread. Where does it say he is in the bread?

 

[joe370]

=Nine_Two;7198117]Do you have real rebuttals, or just dishonest sophistry and polemics?

I don’t and that is why I am asking.

Pretending that the existence of two opinions negates them both only negates your own opinions when taken on a larger scale.

I admit that my opinion does not matter, for I was not entrusted with the authority to interpret scripture. A church was…I believe that Jesus left us with a way to know the truth; you however, do not, I think…

While some Protestants believe in the Real Presence, and others do not, taken up a step to include Catholics, some Christians believe in the Real Presence and others do not. In no way does this dilemma answer which church organization is correct in its beliefs.

So, from the protestant perspective where we see 2 different interpretations, there is no way to know the truth regarding said interpretation, just as the 1st century Christians had the truth regarding these 2 interpretations???

 

[Nine_Two]

Pretending that the existence of two opinions negates them both only negates your own opinions when taken on a larger scale.

I admit that my opinion does not matter, for I was not entrusted with the authority to interpret scripture. A church was…I believe that Jesus left us with a way to know the truth; you however, do not, I think…

So, from the protestant perspective where we see 2 different interpretations, there is no way to know the truth regarding said interpretation, just as the 1st century Christians had the truth regarding these 2 interpretations???

And that’s a valid point, that the ECF all agreed on the Real Presence, and if I misunderstood your point I apologize, but it sounded like you were basing your argument on their own denominationalism, which doesn’t prove anything.

 

[joe370]

Jesus took bread and said: this is my body. What’s the bread? His Body…He is not in the bread; the bread becomes his flesh. He is in Heaven and where ever he wants to be…

I know what Catholics believe, heck I was one. Where does it say 2000 years ago that he is in the bread?
Where is this knowledge you speak? Can you give me a book and verse where this can be found?
This is my body don’t mean he is in the bread. Where does it say he is in the bread?

 

[joe370]

Hey brother, I respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with it. Do you believe that Jesus left us with a way to know the truth regarding the Eucharist? Yes, no, maybe…
[COLOR="Red":

Nine_Two;

7198134]And that’s a valid point, that the ECF all agreed on the Real Presence, and if I misunderstood your point I apologize, but it sounded like you were basing your argument on their own denominationalism, which doesn’t prove anything.

 

[rev_kevin]

Kevin, I think the first thing we need to do is establish who has the authority to decide whether or not the bread is a symbol of Jesus’ Body or Jesus’ Body. It is not 't me or you, so who is it???

You said: So is Jesus present or not in the bread? The bread transforms into Jesus’ Body as per the bible.

Where does the bible say: this is a symbol of my body???

Let me guess, the CC. Am I right? Am I, am I? PPPPPlllllllllleeeeeeessssssse tell me.
Give me a book and verse in the bible where it say that the bread “transforms” into the body of Jesus? Jesus never said that the bread “transforms” into his body. So it only leaves one thing, can you guess what I’m going to say? Hold on, wait for it, here it comes, ready, a Symbol.

 

[rev_kevin]

Jesus took bread and said: this is my body. What’s the bread? His Body…He is not in the bread; the bread becomes his flesh. He is in Heaven and where ever he wants to be…

Shame on you. You didn’t answer my questions.