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PJM
Guest
Who can possess the Supernatural Virtues of Faith; Hope an Charity? WHY?
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
Those to whom God gives these virtues can possess them. Why? Because God wills that they possess these virtues and has the power to cause us to possess them.
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PJM
Guest
OK, but are tey available equally opportunity “to all?”
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
Well, that gets into the different schools of theology on the subject of grace. From a Thomist perspective we would say God gives the potential to accept supernatural faith, hope, and charity to all but gives them efficaciously only to those whom He has freely chosen, prior to any merits on their part, to actually receive them.
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PJM
Guest
Do I understand you to say that Thomas taught Predestination?
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
The Catholic Church teaches predestination. St. Thomas also taught predilection, which is the principle that no thing would be better than another in any way if God had not willed it to be so.
This is one of the most difficult areas of theology and one which, for the very reason of its difficulty and of the prejudices people have regarding it, the Church has been prevented from clarifying very much about. For that reason there are many schools of thought on the subject which, for the present and the forseeable future, are tolerated within the Church.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
Anyone. Because God gave them the grace to be able to have those three virtues.
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tdgesq
Guest
Only those who have received the grace of justification (sanctifying grace) can possess the three divine virtues, which are concomitantly infused into the soul. So the “why” question really relates to the reception of the grace of justification.
Baptism confers the grace of initial justification, and for adults, must be accompanied by faith. God of course is the primary efficient cause of the grace of justification through the outward sign (sacrament) of baptism. Faith requires the assent of the human intellect and will. However, a necessary condition of faith is God’s actual grace, which internally enlightens the mind and strengthens the will.
Actual grace is an unmerited gift from God that is antecedent to the human act of faith, although it also consequently affects human acts. It is offered universally to all people, as God desires the salvation of all of humanity. From the human perspective, there is the possibility that we can exercise our freedom to reject God’s offer of actual grace. From God’s perspective, there are those who he foresees will accept his offer and persevere justified into the eternal kingdom. These are the elect, the predestined of God.
What about the possibility where a person rejects God’s actual grace as offer? Here we would say that the grace was sufficient to make an act of faith possible, but remains inefficacious due to the resistance of the free human will.
So, this was a really long way of explaining that the three Divine virtues are available to everybody. Whether they are available “equally” to every person is unknowable for us. God is completely free to dispense grace however He sees fit, and His decision in this regard hasn’t been revealed.
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PJM
Guest
Catholic Baptism
or Christian baptism
or both
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tdgesq
Guest
I think I know what you mean. I’m not trying to argue the probabilities of illicit yet valid baptisms by heretics or baptism by desire, etc. I’m only asserting that, as at least a possibility, the three theological virtues are available to all. Whether it is “equally” available to all is something I cannot answer, because it simply hasn’t been revealed to us by the Church. You are free to disagree, as others often do with me here.Catholic Baptism
or Christian baptism
or both
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PJM
Guest
Very good; let me try a slightly different way to ask my question:=tdgesq;10906877]I think I know what you mean. I’m not trying to argue the probabilities of illicit yet valid baptisms by heretics or baptism by desire, etc. I’m only asserting that, as at least a possibility, the three theological virtues are available to all. Whether it is “equally” available to all is something I cannot answer, because it simply hasn’t been revealed to us by the Church. You are free to disagree, as others often do with me here.
The term “Faith” as it applies to catholics and protestants. Does it have the same meaning? The same understanding?
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PJM
Guest
If it is factually “the same” faith: why; HOW can there be thousands of understandings of only ONE possible truh per defined issue?
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tdgesq
Guest
I only asserted that both Catholics and Protestants require that there be adherence to God and assent to all of God’s revelation for there to be justifying faith. I did not state, and I do not now state, that Catholics and Protestants have the same belief in each and every factual particular regarding God’s revelation. Then again, neither do Catholics have the same belief in every factual particular of God’s revelation.If it is factually “the same” faith: why; HOW can there be thousands of understandings of only ONE possible truh per defined issue?
A person can confess and believe in God and commit to believe in everything He has revealed without knowing, understanding or even being correct about every factual particular of revelation. Otherwise, justification is impossible for everybody, even Catholics. That a Catholic might be confused or mistaken about a discrete teaching of the Trinity at the time of his baptism, does not deprive him of justifying faith.
Maybe the best way to approach this is to ask you a question. I haven’t asked anything up to this point. Is it possible for a Protestant to have justifying faith?
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