Maybe so, in the more CoE-influenced Churches. .If you want to talk about pancakes, then the proper day is Pancake Tuesday.As it orignated from England, it is common throughout most of the English-speaking world.
Shrove Tuesday is really Confession Tuesday as the word Shrove comes from the word shrive, meaning to confess.
Sorry for your problems with the varieties of Anglicanism.
Hi EvangelCatholic, never been away though I wish I have as much time to post on this forum as you guys seem to have.
). Hence, Septuagesimo Sunday, although it is actually 63 days before Easter, and not 70 (I guess they cannot run the -gesimo Sundays for one more week to make 70 days as that would be to call the extra Sunday Octogesimo Sunday - somehow, Octogesimo doesnāt jive with 70 days before Easter).Not all. Among many of the Oriental Orthodox, if Iām remembering correctly, thereās a different name for it too. Often some variation of āResurrection.ā
No, if I remember right Great Lent runs from Clean Monday (today) to the Sunday or Monday of Holy Week. We still fast on Saturdays, though youāre allowed wine and oil, so itās lessened. Nevertheless the entire of Holy Week is its own season of fasting. It still doesnāt quite equal 40 days, I think itās a little longer. It might depend on the moon.
Thansk, Rawb. I stand corrected on Eastern fasting on Saturdays. I do get confused over the number of fasting days in Eastern Lent. Great Lent is the 40 days between Clean Monday and Friday before Palm Sunday. Then, you have the eight days of Holy Week. that makes 48 days. And you fast & abstain on all 48 days?
Thanks for the thorough explanation.Hi EvangelCatholic, never been away though I wish I have as much time to post on this forum as you guys seem to have.
I think the question on pancakes is well answered. I have a post on Lent and Easter practices if you are interested. Did you know pretzels and Japanese tempura are Lent food?
I am not aware of any pagan connection with Lent. But there are plenty of pagan practices around Lent time, as one would expect for spring time. If you are in London during spring equinox (March 20 this year), go for the druid celebrations in Primrose Hill or the Stonehenge (they are not the druids of old, of course but more a New Age religion). Note that our word for Easter comes from the name of an Anglo-Saxon goddess Äostre. English is alone in calling the season Easter - all the other languages call it Pascha.
On the Pre-Lent or -gesima Sunday,s I think I will be ruffling a few feathers here. While disputes over the calculation of the date of Easter are well known (and differences still persist today between East and West), there is an equally long-running disagreement in the West (more like confusion to me) over when Lent starts. Ash Wednesday was created to make the number of fasting days in Lent to be the special number of 40 - you never fast on Sundays. Before that, Lent started on the First Sunday of Lent (Quadragesimo Sunday), which only gives 36 fasting days. I have come across priests who still insist Lent is the forty days between First Sunday of Lent and Holy Thursday. Technically, they could be right as Holy Thursday mass belong liturgically to the Easter Triduum. It is all very confusing to me. I believe the Greek practice of pre-Lent also try to fit 40 days of fasting with their tradition of not fasting also on Saturdays.
In medieval Europe, there were many different days on when fasting starts. There is also the attempt to square it with the other special number of 70 (the more special numbers you can fit in, the better I guess
By 15th century, the practice was more or less standardised to start the fast on Ash Wednesday but the -gesimo Sunday liturgies remain on the liturgy books. To the practical Romans, this period then became the pre-Lent. I see it as the period of preparation for the period of preparation. I think Vatican 2 is right to do away this last vestige of the confusion over when Lenten fast starts.
Having said that, being the anti-uniformity Catholic that I am, I am happy for anyone who wishes to retain the tradition to do so and it is pleasing to see traditionalists keeping the practice alive at their site.
I am from England and we all -regardless of denomination - use the term Shrove Tuesday. I am aware of the origins of the name and traditionally the day was one of self-examination. The pancake link might make the day sound decadent but it represents using up items before the lenten fast begins. I am afraid that Pancake Day, like Motherās Day (we have Mothering Sunday in March which has a proper religious link) sounds to me like a commercial āAmericanismā that is best avoided.If you want to talk about pancakes, then the proper day is Pancake Tuesday.
Shrove Tuesday is really Confession Tuesday as the word Shrove comes from the word shrive, meaning to confess.
I donāt think there was ever a formal season of Epiphany. In the Catholic Church calendar, the period between Epiphany and Lent is the Ordinary Sundays of the year, with the first Ordinary Sunday being the Baptism of the Lord.
.The CofE still have Epiphany season as you describe up to the feast of presentation with gold vestments.I donāt think there was ever a formal season of Epiphany. In the Catholic Church calendar, the period between Epiphany and Lent is the Ordinary Sundays of the year, with the first Ordinary Sunday being the Baptism of the Lord.
There is an informal Epiphany period, running until Feb 2 Presentation of the Lord, when Jesus was presented at the Temple 40 days after he was born (Feb 2 is 40 days after Dec 25). Some people consider this period as an extension of the Christmas season, and Christmas decorations are to be left up until Feb 2. Sometimes, I think this is an idea cooked up by the poor guy nagged by the wife to take down the Christmas tree
We have imported lots of stuff from the Americans, some good some bad. But Pancake Day is not one of them. It is more popular in England than in US. Just a quick glance to the newspapers today and you can see which one has more references to pancakes. Evening Standard normally list the best pancake places and I think they came up with the list yesterday. Guardian has some pancake recipes, I think. Yumm.
Canāt let an Englishman destroy a good English tradition!!
Yes, and since I often see CoE as the time capsule of Catholic medieval practices, I guess they celebrated an Epiphany season under the Sarum Rite before the Reformation.
Again I remind you not to casually generalize about what Anglicans do.
We have always gone to green right after Epiphany. So I think that must be a Lutheran practice at least mostly.
, But it helped ease the monotony.On the strict fast you donāt eat meat, dairy, wine, olive oil, fish with a backbone, and eggs, and you eat smaller portioned meals. Some, for the first three days, do not eat anything. Some only eat after sundown. Generally you work out what you can do with your priest and just do that. So, my wife and I arenāt eating meat, dairy products except for milk, wine and olive oil, and we limit our fish and eggs. Normally for breakfast I might have toast with butter, jam, and tea with milk and sugar, and now for Lent I might have dry toast and tea without milk, as an example of the smaller meals, or even just the tea. Wine and oil are permitted on certain feast days which fall during Lent, such as Annunciation and sometimes the Feast of St. Padraig.
Are you talking about when you were Roman Catholic? In Orthodoxy green is only used for Pentecost and certain saints, and Advent is red. Blue is used for feasts of the Theotokos.We have always gone to green right after Epiphany. So I think that must be a Lutheran practice at least mostly.
Ya know I always get so tired of the color green. I remember one priest we had who had six sets of green vestments, one made him look like Kermit the frog
I also think blue for Advent is a Lutheran thing as well. All I have seen is purple at that time of year.
