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ajpirc
Guest
Is our Holy Father chosen by the Holy Spirit working through the College of Cardinals or is he chosen by the Cardinals alone who pick the person they think is best? Is it the same for the Pope choosing other bishops?
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Brendan
Guest
The action is a human choice. What the Holy Spirit provides is the charism that whoever the College electes cannot promulgate falsehood on faith nor morals.
That said, the College can choose to pray and discern in their election, and leave themselves open, but it still remains an act of human will.
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Wowbagger
Guest
^ Ditto the selection of bishops by the Pope, except that the Holy Spirit does not (unfortunately) provide the Pope’s choice with a charism against fallible moral and religious teachings. Popes do their best, and the pray for discernment, but they make bad choices all the time.
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ajpirc
Guest
So God isn’t the one who chooses bishops and popes? I always thought the Holy Spirit worked through the bishops, cardinals, and popes since the beginning of the Church (Acts 1:24-26).
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Wowbagger
Guest
We firmly hope that the College of Cardinals and the Pope are fervent in prayer and deeply open to God’s will, so that God’s will is done in the selection of the leaders of the Church. But if their will is closed to him, God does not intervene. He only ensures that His Church does not formally teach errors.
The proof that not all our popes are God’s anointed is Pope Alexander VI. Well, actually, there are about ten other truly awful popes I could name, but Alex VI is particularly notorious. (I had a professor once, a monk who sits on the Congregation for Causes of Saints, who said that he wanted to open up a “Pope Alexander VI Institute for the Family and Children” – because Pope Alex was always looking out for his!)
The proof that not all our popes are God’s anointed is Pope Alexander VI. Well, actually, there are about ten other truly awful popes I could name, but Alex VI is particularly notorious. (I had a professor once, a monk who sits on the Congregation for Causes of Saints, who said that he wanted to open up a “Pope Alexander VI Institute for the Family and Children” – because Pope Alex was always looking out for his!)
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manualman
Guest
You were always right. God DOES do all those things. But He works with the materials he has within the framework of human free will. Us puny humans could never pull this off. God’s rather smarter than us, see?
Scripture is the same way. It’s not dictated by God through the human authors brain to the pen. God inspires the words, but the humanity of the author is visibly there too. This is why Paul reads differently than Peter, for example.
We repeatedly underestimate God. You’d think we’d learn, eh?
Scripture is the same way. It’s not dictated by God through the human authors brain to the pen. God inspires the words, but the humanity of the author is visibly there too. This is why Paul reads differently than Peter, for example.
We repeatedly underestimate God. You’d think we’d learn, eh?
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PJM
Guest
All Cardinals under the age of 75 vote for the New Pope. That is why ones sees the Pope elevate Bishops of “Like Mind” to the position of Cardinal. This is critial to maintaing what he has taught and implemented. It is TRULY Guided by the Holy Spirit; which is why the “experts” seldom guess correctly who will get elected.
God Bless,
Pat
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ConstantineTG
Guest
It is truly the work of the Holy Spirit. You should hear accounts on how Blessed Pope John Paul II was chosen. From what I heard, they were always split on different Bishops in previous ballots. They didn’t even think of the Blessed Pope. Then on the ballot that elected him, his name was all they could write.
Even the synods that would elect Patriarchs of the particular Churches are inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Even the synods that would elect Patriarchs of the particular Churches are inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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ajpirc
Guest
But the Holy Spirit only inspires the electors when they remain open to the Holy Spirit, right? If they don’t, is that how an antipope is elected?
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chrisb
Guest
Grace and Peace,
I’ve read in the early Church the Bishop’s were elected by the consent of the faithful… wasn’t the Bishop of Rome elected in the same fashion? When did this change?
I’ve read in the early Church the Bishop’s were elected by the consent of the faithful… wasn’t the Bishop of Rome elected in the same fashion? When did this change?
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runningdude
Guest
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MarkThompson
Guest
No, an antipope is somebody who claims to be pope but actually isn’t. Most of the times in history when this has happened it was due to political rivalries. They were generally “installed” by powerful kings in an attempt to get someone on the papal throne more favorable to their interests, and numerous schisms in the Church were created this way.
If the cardinals legitimately elect someone in a papal election, then he is pope by virtue of having been elected. And when, for example, after this a portion of the cardinals decide they don’t like the guy after all, reconvene, declare the previous election invalid, and purport to elect someone else, you have an antipope.
Incidentally, the College of Cardinals itself only dates to the eleventh century, and conclaves have only been held since 1274. In earlier centuries, the popes were sometimes designated by their predecessor, sometime elected by acclamation of the clergy and people of Rome, and sometimes installed through political force.
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JReducation
Guest
Let’s slow down here.
The pope is chosen by the Holy Spirit. However, he works through the electoral college. Actually, it’s not the College of Cardinals. The College of Cardinals includes all the cardinals. Those cardinals over the age of 80 are not electors.
When the electoral college chooses a man not chosen by the Holy Spirit, we call him an anti pope. This has happened a number of times, but not too often. Most of the anti popes were self-imposed.
One of the best proofs of the action of the Holy Spirit in the election is the surprises that we’ve had. On one occasion a brother was elected pope, St. Celestine V. He was ordained a deacon, priest and bishop so that he could become the Bishop of Rome. Five months later he abdicated, but not before making some rather interesting decisions.
Another surprise was the election of John Paul II and the election of Benedict XVI. No one ever expected the election of a Pole or a German. That was not in the mind of the cardinals.
The selection of bishops is also done by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, their ordination would be invalid. When a man is named a bishop, two three things must happen: 1) he must be named by the Holy Father, 2) he must freely accept, and 3) he must be ordained by a validly ordained bishop. The ordination takes place through the power of the Holy Spirit. If that were not the case, the ordination would be invalid.
As you can see, the Holy Spirit is at work here.
One often asks, why have we had popes and bishops who have been less than exemplary persons? There are two answers to this. First, the Holy Spirit may pick them, but he does not control their moral choices. Second, God is not too picky about his employees. The first 12 bishops were very unlikely candidates by today’s standards.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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laszlo
Guest
Ultimately God is behind every event.
However God is invisible, regularly he does not acts by visible interactions.
As for Bishops, the very first ones were appointed by the Apostles, later they were chosen by the people. Like in any democracy this deteriorated to the ‘best bishops money/power can buy’; so beginning the second millennium (investiture controversy, St Gregory VII) the jurisdiction of the bishop (installation) was given directly by the Pope. Some kings, called as Apostolic kings, like the KIng of France and Hungary claimed the right to nomination, but still the bishops get their power/jurisdiction from the Pope.
We do not know how the first popes were nominated, but quite early the nomination was given to the consolatory body around the pope, the college of Cardinals (there is such body around the bishops too, but as far as I know, they never had nominating and installing rights)
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Brendan
Guest
I would disagree here. The election of the pope is an excercise of free will by the College. The College is free, like any choice, to elect whom they fell.
A great example would be the Borgia Popes. They could hardly be called the choice of the Holy Spirit. Rather, they are proof positive that the charism of infallibily works, even when the recipient of the charism is a corrupt fornicator .
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pablope
Guest
Hi, Pat…i think it is 80 yrs old is the limit that a cardinal can participate in the synod to elect a pope.All Cardinals under the age of 75 vote for the New Pope. That is why ones sees the Pope elevate Bishops of “Like Mind” to the position of Cardinal. This is critial to maintaing what he has taught and implemented. It is TRULY Guided by the Holy Spirit; which is why the “experts” seldom guess correctly who will get elected.
God Bless,
Pat
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pablope
Guest
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PJM
Guest
THANKS!
God Bless,
Pat
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JReducation
Guest
If we’re asking, “Does the Holy Spirit cast a vote in the election?” The answer is no.
If we ask, “Does the Holy Spirit dictate who should be elected?” Again, the answer is no.
If we ask, “Does the Holy Spirit guide the electors?” The answer is yes.
Even these men were chosen by the Holy Spirit. We have to remember that the Holy Spirit chooses the man who is good for the Church. This may be a man who is corrupt. We don’t know what would have happened if a St. Francis or St. Dominic has been elected pope. Were men like Benedict and Francis more saintly than the Borgia? Of course. Would they have been good for the Church? Obviously not, because the Holy Spirit did not guide the electors in that direction.
Of course all this does not preclude human error and sin. Still, Jesus Christ does not seem too worried about having the Church snatched out of his hand as a result (Jn. 10:28-29). On April 15, 1997 in an interview on Bavarian television Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger reflected on the role of the Holy Spirit in papal elections, given the sometimes questionable choices of history’s conclaves:
**“I would not say…that the Holy Spirit picks out the pope. …the Spirit’s role…[is not such] that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.” **
The Holy Spirit guides the electors to ensure that they will elect someone who will not destroy the Church.
Another theological position that has been presented is a biblical one. , Cardinals, being successors of the apostles, are guided by the Holy Spirit. In John 20.21-23, Jesus explicitly gives the Holy Spirit to his apostles along with the authority to forgive or not to forgive sins. The gospel of John mentions that Jesus told his apostles that they should not be worried because even though he would not be physically present, the Holy Spirit would guide them in their actions. For instance, in John 14.16-17, Jesus promises the apostles a Counselor, which is the Holy Spirit, to be with them forever. This Spirit, according to Jesus, will live with them and will be in them.
In John 14.26, Jesus clearly states that the Holy Spirit will be the one who will teach them, the apostles, and will remind them of everything that he has said to them. Moreover, in John 16.13, Jesus ratifies the power of guidance of the Holy Spirit by saying that when the Holy Spirit comes, he will guide them, the apostles, into all truth.
The participation of the Holy Spirit as a counselor to select apostles is mentioned in Acts 1.23-26. In this passage, the apostles, prior to the selection of the substitute of Judas Iscariot, who was the apostle Matthias, prayed to God asking for his guidance. Jesus has promised the Church that he will will guide her through the Holy Spirit, the Counselor. Thus, according to the Bible, the Holy Spirit provides guidance to Cardinals who are electing the Successor of Peter, Vicar of Jesus Christ, and Supreme Pontiff of the Church, the highest office on earth.
There is the presence of the Holy Spirit, despite the sinfulness of the candidates.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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