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Tim_D
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God does not live, He exists. You are trying to ascribe human qualities to a spiritual, non-human being.
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rossum
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rossum
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Then God did not create/cause the universe, since causation is an event in time. If there was no time then it is impossible to say whether God came ‘before’ the universe or ‘after’ the universe. Since we cannot distinguish ‘before’ from ‘after’ then it is impossible to distinguish cause (the ‘before’) from effect (the ‘after’).
If time began at the origin of the universe then it is correct to say, “There was no time when the universe did not exist”, or alternatively, “The universe has existed for all time”. That makes the universe eternal, and hence it does not require a cause by the Kalaam argument.
Not sufficient. Otherwise the universe would be a lot older than it is.
Exactly my point. God is eternal; the universe is not. Hence God alone is not a sufficient cause of the universe. If He were, then the universe would also be eternal. Something changed 13.5 billion years ago to cause the universe. That something was not present 200 billion years ago. There must have been a change. Maybe God’s will (or something similar) changed. Going from “I will not create” to “I will create”. Whatever it was, it changed.
rossum
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rossum
Guest
Human beings are made in God’s image, hence some human properties are images of God’s properties. As the Psalm says: “My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.” (Psalm 41 or 42, the numbering differs).
God is a living God. Hence God cannot have created the first life. At best He can only have created the second, third etc. life.
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Tim_D
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Good try but ultimately…fail.
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rinnie
Guest
incorrect. God created Adam the first human life. Also God is not only human God is Divine.
God was never created God always was always will be.
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rossum
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rossum
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You are changing the question. It is already clear that human life was not the first life. A living God can no more create the first life than He can create a square circle. A living God can only create the second, third, fourth … life.
Only a non-living God can create the first life, and the Bible states that the Abrahamic God is a living God.
Which is why God cannot create the first life, for that would be to create Himself.
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rinnie
Guest
A living God is outside of time. Adam and Eve were the first 2 Humans created by God in this world. Because God has to exist and is outside of time no further explanation is needed. God has always existed in and outside of time.
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rossum
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If He is living, then He existed before (in whatever sense) all of His creation. He still cannot create the first living thing. He can only create the second etc living things. Angels perhaps.
Irrelevant. Not all living things are humans and some of those non-human living things existed before the first humans.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say God, “is outside of time” and then you say, “God has always existed in and outside of time.” Please be clear about where you place God. Inside time; outside time; both inside and outside time; or neither inside nor outside time.
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Vico
Guest
Christian Trinity is immaterial being. Angels and humans have created immaterial souls. Humans also have created material bodies.
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Tim_D
Guest
God is not physical; He does not “live,” He exists.
Material organic life lives and it dies. It exists in that it is a physical reality but it does not exists by its own accord.
Trying to ascribe material qualities of human beings to an immaterial spiritual being is pointless.
The fact that you cannot comprehend the meaning of those realities does not give your argument anymore validity and neither do the word games that you are tying to play.
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Tim_D
Guest
Wrong again.
Human beings are made in God’s image only inasmuch that we possess an immaterial eternal soul. That does not mean that we can say that God has height, weight, blond hair, blue eyes or even high blood pressure, heart disease or cancer or any of the other “human properties” that humans have.
I get the feeling that you should strike up an acquaintance with member ANV because you both seem to be convinced of your own cleverness in dealing with subject matter that you both apparently do not even slightly comprehend.
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rossum
Guest
Irrelevant. The question is if the Christian God is a living God, as the Bible says. If God is a ‘living God’ then He is incapable of creating the first living being.
rossum
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rossum
Guest
So, the Bible is wrong? “My soul thirsts for God, for the living God.” - Psalm 41 or 42 (emphasis added)
No. Man was created in the image of God, so there have to be some commonalities. If there are no commonalities then man cannot be in the image of God. Being alive is one of those commonalities.
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Tim_D
Guest
When the Bible speaks of God as being a “living” God, it means “living” in the sense that He is real and existent, not a false god. Sheesh.
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rossum
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Tim_D
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“Living” meaning real, true, not an attempt at anthropomorphism. If God is living in the sense that you think, then does He need to eat, sleep, use the bathroom?
Yes, the commonality being that we are both spiritual. Trying to limit God to physical human traits is simply foolish.
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Tim_D
Guest
Oh, forget it.
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