Who disciplines misbeheaving husbands in Islam?

[Eetaq]

cargopilot:

Thank you for forgiving my very limited knowlege of Islam.

What are the rules for how you can hit? Are they very clear, or are they open to interpretation by the husband?

What would happen if the woman went to the local Imam? For example, if the husband is very mean to her and hits her often for the smallest things, what can the Imam do? Could the husband prevent her from seeing the local Imam? Wouldn’t her going to the Imam make him more angry with her and cause him to beat her even more?

Ah, you are referring to an abusive relationship. Well if the husband was like that then it is very clear grounds for the wife to leave the husband.

And also, it is assumed islamically that the man is practicing Islam, and if he is then he can’t go around hitting anyone, especially his wife, for no apparent reason. If he is no longer practicing Islam then the wife can do pretty much anything she wants, and if she wants a divorce than the man will be in a world of hurt, because in an Islamic divorce the women gets a much better deal.

 

[Eetaq]

Hey anderson, read this, It is my post from three posts ago I think:

No there is no equivalent to 4:34 anywhere in the qur’an about men.

Basically there is no specifics about how a wife is going to punish her husband, however the advantage of this is that she can do many things. The husband is limited by these degrees stated in the qur’an, while the woman is open ended.

There are a few things that can be found throughout hadith, try and look there.

 

[Anderson33]

Eetaq:

Hey anderson, read this, It is my post from three posts ago I think:

No there is no equivalent to 4:34 anywhere in the qur’an about men.

Basically there is no specifics about how a wife is going to punish her husband, however the advantage of this is that she can do many things. The husband is limited by these degrees stated in the qur’an, while the woman is open ended.

There are a few things that can be found throughout hadith, try and look there.

A few things Eetaq:

Why the disparity? in other words, why the methodology for wives, and why not for husbands?

Who benefits with such disparity?

If the Koran allegedly is complete and easy to understand, why there’s no clarity regarding how to discipline husbands?

I’d appreciate if you respond clearly and concisely.

thanks

 

[cargopilot]

Eetaq:

Ah, you are referring to an abusive relationship. Well if the husband was like that then it is very clear grounds for the wife to leave the husband.

And also, it is assumed islamically that the man is practicing Islam, and if he is then he can’t go around hitting anyone, especially his wife, for no apparent reason. If he is no longer practicing Islam then the wife can do pretty much anything she wants, and if she wants a divorce than the man will be in a world of hurt, because in an Islamic divorce the women gets a much better deal.

Thank you for your reply.

Does she have alternatives short of leaving her husband? For example, she wants to keep her family together. Or, she has no money or resources, and no place to go?

You also mentioned ‘he can’t go around hitting anyone, especially his wife, for no apparent reason.’ What would be an example of an ‘apparent reason’ where it’s OK to hit the wife? Also, how would one hit her, and yet remain within the rules of Islam?

 

[Eetaq]

cargopilot:

Thank you for your reply.

Does she have alternatives short of leaving her husband? For example, she wants to keep her family together. Or, she has no money or resources, and no place to go?

You also mentioned ‘he can’t go around hitting anyone, especially his wife, for no apparent reason.’ What would be an example of an ‘apparent reason’ where it’s OK to hit the wife? Also, how would one hit her, and yet remain within the rules of Islam?

Personally I have no idea of what it is, but she has to have kept on doing it even after he has stopped sleeping in the same bed with her, asked her to stop, talked, etc… So she would have to be absurdly stubborn about whatever it is.
And there are alternatives mediation, consultation, and such, if she chooses to sleep on the couch, idk, Im only 17 and I dont know what married people do.

 

[cargopilot]

Hi Anderson33,

I just realized that my questions about specific details about how to hit your wife and when it’s OK to hit your wife, and remain within the correct bounds of Islam is really hijacking your thread about ‘Who disciplines misbeheaving husbands in Islam?’ Your interesting question just prompted me to ask these follow-ups.

If you think these questions are too unrelated, and should be the topic of another thread, just say so.

Anderson33, I’m sorry to have hijacked your thread. It was entirely unintentional.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

 

[Eetaq]

Oh, and as far as how you can hit and remain within islamic rules, I dont know all the specifics but I do know this:

No hitting the face/head of any sort

No hitting hard enough to leave a mark

 

[Anderson33]

cargopilot:

Hi Anderson33,

I just realized that my questions about specific details about how to hit your wife and when it’s OK to hit your wife, and remain within the correct bounds of Islam is really hijacking your thread about ‘Who disciplines misbeheaving husbands in Islam?’ Your interesting question just prompted me to ask these follow-ups.

If you think these questions are too unrelated, and should be the topic of another thread, just say so.

Anderson33, I’m sorry to have hijacked your thread. It was entirely unintentional.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

thanks CP. I have read a number of threads in which the participants go off topic. Thanks for realising that your questions are not directly related to mine.

I am focusing on the disparity between husbands and wives in islam in regards to punishment.

Hope Emad, Eetaq and the other muslims here can stay on topic.

thanks again CP

 

[cargopilot]

Eetaq:

Oh, and as far as how you can hit and remain within islamic rules, I dont know all the specifics but I do know this:

No hitting the face/head of any sort

No hitting hard enough to leave a mark

So it would be OK to punch her in the stomach, or any other place that wouldn’t leave a mark?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

First let me say I am against violence,BUT if I married a Islamic man and he beat me for any reason I would get my brothers and uncles in formations and thenhttp://bestsmileys.com/violent/18.gifHe would think twice before doing it again

 

[cargopilot]

Anderson33:

thanks CP. I have read a number of threads in which the participants go off topic. Thanks for realising that your questions are not directly related to mine.

I am focusing on the disparity between husbands and wives in islam in regards to punishment.

Hope Emad, Eetaq and the other muslims here can stay on topic.

thanks again CP

It seems pretty clear that there is no prescribed discipline for misbehaving husbands, other than she can leave, if she doesn’t like it.

I wonder if there is an Islam thread where the in’s and out’s of disciplining one’s wife are discussed, including when it’s OK to hit her as well as how to hit her, and still remain within the rules of Islam.

Thanks for your patience with my straying questions on your thread. I’m anxious to see the details of who disciplines misbeheaving husbands in Islam. I hope to see plenty of respondents to your thread.

 

[Eetaq]

cargopilot:

So it would be OK to punch her in the stomach, or any other place that wouldn’t leave a mark?

If you can punch someone and not leave a mark then you are the most talented puncher in the world and should be in a museum :bigyikes:

Haha well to be serious here the scholars say that you should not hit her with anything more than a tooth stick (its almost the same size as a toothbrush), which can sting, but thats it.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Wifes family will disciplinehttp://bestsmileys.com/violent/18.gif

 

[cargopilot]

Lisa4Catholics:

First let me say I am against violence,BUT if I married a Islamic man and he beat me for any reason I would get my brothers and uncles in formations and thenhttp://bestsmileys.com/violent/18.gifHe would think twice before doing it again

From what I can tell, that would be one of the few things you CAN do. Consider yourself lucky to have brothers and uncles who could help you out. IMHO, you might want to stick with a good Catholic boy.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

cargopilot:

From what I can tell, that would be one of the few things you CAN do. Consider yourself lucky to have brothers and uncles who could help you out. IMHO, you might want to stick with a good Catholic boy.

Absolutely,I feel very bad for those “disciplined wives”

 

[cargopilot]

Eetaq:

If you can punch someone and not leave a mark then you are the most talented puncher in the world and should be in a museum :bigyikes:

Haha well to be serious here the scholars say that you should not hit her with anything more than a tooth stick (its almost the same size as a toothbrush), which can sting, but thats it.

Many, many years ago, in schoolyard fights, I’ve taken some very painful punches in the stomach, with no visable marks whatsoever. A well placed, hard punch in the stomach or a kidney punch won’t leave a mark. Internal bleeding, sure, but visable marks, no. I’ll bet a good smack with a tooth stick will leave a mark.

 

[Emad]

This is getting out of hand. To be honest I didn’t know to much about this issue. After doing some research here is what I found.

Wife beating anytime and for any reason is never allowed in Islam. There is however a questionable condition where Allah Almighty seems to allow the husband to beat his wife, and that is after he gives her two warnings to stop showing ill-conduct and disloyalty.

Let us look at Noble Verses 4:34-36 "(34). Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

(35). If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

(36). Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;"

The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is “idribuhunna”, which is derived from “daraba” which means “beat”. The issue with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word “daraba” is that they don’t necessarily mean “hit”. The word “idribuhunna” for instance, could very well mean to “leave” them. It is exactly like telling someone to “beat it” or “drop it” in English.

Allah Almighty used the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 14:24 “Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? – A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens”. “daraba” here meant “give an example”. If I say in Arabic “daraba laka mathal”, it means “give you an example”.

Allah Almighty also used the word “darabtum”, which is derived from the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to “go abroad” in the sake of Allah Almighty:

“O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: ‘Thou art none of a Believer!’ Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)”

So “daraba” literally means “beat”, or “go abroad”, or “give” but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.

Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used “daraba (4:34” and “darabtum (4:94)”, which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave, since that’s what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94. The next section below will further prove my point.

I am sure there are more Noble Verses that used words derived from “daraba” in the Noble Quran, but these are the only ones I know of so far. In the case of Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow men to hit their wives after the two warnings for ill-conduct and disloyalty, it could very well be that Allah Almighty meant to command the Muslims to “leave” the home all together and desert their wives for a long time in a hope that the wives would then come back to their senses and repent.

I hope this cleared your misconception.

 

[CatholicCid]

Basically there is no specifics about how a wife is going to punish her husband, however the advantage of this is that she can do many things. The husband is limited by these degrees stated in the qur’an, while the woman is open ended.

It can’t be that open ended… or someone may end up getting knifed

Just wanted to pop in and say to hit someone and not leave a mark, you would place a telephone book between them and the punch… Please don’t ask how I know that

 

[Emad]

CatholicCid:

It can’t be that open ended… or someone may end up getting knifed

Just wanted to pop in and say to hit someone and not leave a mark, you would place a telephone book between them and the punch… Please don’t ask how I know that

Please read my below post.

 

[Anderson33]

Emad:

This is getting out of hand. To be honest I didn’t know to much about this issue. After doing some research here is what I found.

Wife beating anytime and for any reason is never allowed in Islam. There is however a questionable condition where Allah Almighty seems to allow the husband to beat his wife, and that is after he gives her two warnings to stop showing ill-conduct and disloyalty.

Let us look at Noble Verses 4:34-36 "(34). Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

(35). If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

(36). Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;"

The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is “idribuhunna”, which is derived from “daraba” which means “beat”. The issue with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word “daraba” is that they don’t necessarily mean “hit”. The word “idribuhunna” for instance, could very well mean to “leave” them. It is exactly like telling someone to “beat it” or “drop it” in English.

Allah Almighty used the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 14:24 “Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? – A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens”. “daraba” here meant “give an example”. If I say in Arabic “daraba laka mathal”, it means “give you an example”.

Allah Almighty also used the word “darabtum”, which is derived from the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to “go abroad” in the sake of Allah Almighty:

“O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: ‘Thou art none of a Believer!’ Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)”

So “daraba” literally means “beat”, or “go abroad”, or “give” but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.

Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used “daraba (4:34” and “darabtum (4:94)”, which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave, since that’s what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94. The next section below will further prove my point.

I am sure there are more Noble Verses that used words derived from “daraba” in the Noble Quran, but these are the only ones I know of so far. In the case of Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow men to hit their wives after the two warnings for ill-conduct and disloyalty, it could very well be that Allah Almighty meant to command the Muslims to “leave” the home all together and desert their wives for a long time in a hope that the wives would then come back to their senses and repent.

I hope this cleared your misconception.

Hi again Emad. I am not sure if you are doing it in purpose or not. I have clearly stated that the issue at hand is not so much the morality of wife-beating, which of course, from a christian point of view, is depicable. We can discuss that on a different thread.

The issue here is why the disparity between husbands and wives?

why is there a very specific methodology on how to discipline wives, and why there’s nothing of the sort for husbands???

again, i am going to repeat it to make it perfectly clear:

**why is there a very specific methodology on how to discipline wives, and why there’s nothing of the sort for husbands???

why so much disparity???**

Could you please answer these questions to me clearly?

thanks