Who do Protestants say the woman in Rev. 12 is?

[PaulGH]

Hello,

I have a question for any Protestants who may be reading this forum, or for anyone else who may have insight into this question: When Protestants read Revelation, chapter 12, who do they believe that the woman mentioned here is? Do they identify her as Mary? Or as some other specific person? Or as a symbol which represents someone/something? Or some other option?

I ask this because I am genuinely curious. I am not interested in starting a debate on this topic, I’m just asking for information. And of course I realize that there most likely is not one single monolithic Protestant answer to this question, and I will certainly keep that in mind for any answers that are given. Thanks!

Paul

 

[Lorrie]

This is a good question! I’ve been reading Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn (again) and he mentioned this particular scripture and why it is apparent just who it is in reference to (obviously the Most Holy Virgin Mary).

I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this for other people’s answers.

 

[Laud_God]

a woman clothed with the sun represents Israel, and her child, represents Christ. The dragon is identified as Satan in verse 9, and his red color shows his murderous character.

The sea in 13:1 represents the Gentile nations of the world, from which this beast comes. The Beast is the Antichrist, the false messiah. He is the final Gentile world ruler.

At least that’s what I used to believe.

 

[allhers]

Laud_God:

a woman clothed with the sun represents Israel, and her child, represents Christ. The dragon is identified as Satan in verse 9, and his red color shows his murderous character.

The sea in 13:1 represents the Gentile nations of the world, from which this beast comes. The Beast is the Antichrist, the false messiah. He is the final Gentile world ruler.

At least that’s what I used to believe.

Interesting, since Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the New Israel, the Church! Which still suffers persecution by the dragon (the forces of evil, satan, the devil)
I learned that from a Priest on EWTN, I believe it was Fr. Levis.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

allhers:

Interesting, since Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the New Israel, the Church! Which still suffers persecution by the dragon (the forces of evil, satan, the devil)
I learned that from a Priest on EWTN, I believe it was Fr. Levis.

I hear there are multiple interpretations that are all valid, just like many passages that can have multiple non-contradicting interpretations.

The protestants I have asked always say its can only be Israel in the way Allhers described in the above post, they problem is protestants refuse to admit that could be Mary in any way shape or form (for fear of getting to close to Catholic teachings).
Thats one of those passages that once you put it out you get responses like “I dont know how you could say that was Mary, there is nothing that indicates that”
Also its a good idea to start it off with Rev Chapter11:19 and then continue on with 12:1 (because those chapter and verse numbers are not part of the Scripture they are simply there to help us reference).

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. 1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars…

 

[PaulGH]

Thanks for the responses; very interesting. I asked because I was reading that chapter recently, and thinking about how it seems obvious to me (as a Catholic) that it is talking about Mary. And I figured that most Protestants must think that this woman is someone besides Mary, but I wasn’t sure who else it could be. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of identifying her as Israel.

Anyway, I guess it’s just another case of how a passage can seem to “obviously” mean one thing to one group, and “obviously” mean something else to another group, depending on which tradition is guiding our interpretation.

Paul

 

[Zooey]

Well, first of all, I think that Revelation is obscure enough that its probably no wonder thatthere are several interpretations.
Personally, it has always sounded to me like the Virgin Mary, simply because I can’t see anywhere that there is anyone but Jesus Christ that is prophesied to rule as the “child” of the passage is said to.
But that’s just me…I’ve heard several other ideas, some of which made some sense & some that were just bizarre…
(I happen to be of the “don’t strain yourself trying to disagree with somebody else’s interpretation of Revelation” school of thought. It really is a very complex book).

 

[jesusluv]

The Protestants are right in a broad sense that the woman represents Israel. The problem is the fact that it IS a woman that gave birth to a child that rules with and iron scepter. If a protestant admits(and has to really to be christian) that the one who rules with the iron sceptor is Jesus, then duh, the woman, THE CHILD’S MOTHER, has to be Mary. Now, Mary, as a Jewish woman did and does still represent Israel, but they won’t dare admit that in most cases.

Since we see this as Our Lady, and this woman has a crown on her head, that would prove in essence that she is the queen of heaven, even though calling her that gets us called pagans since in the OT a false goddess was called the “queen of heaven”.

Sorry to get off topic.

 

[allhers]

Catholic Dude:

I hear there are multiple interpretations that are all valid, just like many passages that can have multiple non-contradicting interpretations.

The protestants I have asked always say its can only be Israel in the way Allhers described in the above post, they problem is protestants refuse to admit that could be Mary in any way shape or form (for fear of getting to close to Catholic teachings).
Thats one of those passages that once you put it out you get responses like “I dont know how you could say that was Mary, there is nothing that indicates that”
Also its a good idea to start it off with Rev Chapter11:19 and then continue on with 12:1 (because those chapter and verse numbers are not part of the Scripture they are simply there to help us reference).

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. 1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars…

Definately sounds like the Blessed Virgin Mary to me

 

[PaulGH]

(I happen to be of the “don’t strain yourself trying to disagree with somebody else’s interpretation of Revelation” school of thought. It really is a very complex book).

I tend to agree. I certainly am not trying to denigrate other interpretations of this passage. In fact I can see a certain logic to interpreting the woman as being Israel, even though I don’t necessarily agree that that’s the best interpretation.

 

[ahimsaman72]

PaulGH:

I tend to agree. I certainly am not trying to denigrate other interpretations of this passage. In fact I can see a certain logic to interpreting the woman as being Israel, even though I don’t necessarily agree that that’s the best interpretation.

(I’m Baptist and) I always viewed the woman as Israel. If you consider that as Israel - giving birth to the King - Jesus - and Satan spent his time attacking Christ and trying to circumvent the will of God, you can see the resemblance.

Of course, this is taking a real symbolic viewpoint. But then most of Revelations is symbolic. It is apocalyptic literature that uses metaphors and similes throughout - very similar to the book of Daniel. There could be many possible explanations and I’m nowhere near a theologian or Bible scholar to point to which one is correct.

Peace…

 

[Mickey]

Sacred Tradition interprets her as The Blessed Virgin Mary. And so I obediently accept this.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

PaulGH:

Thanks for the responses; very interesting. I asked because I was reading that chapter recently, and thinking about how it seems obvious to me (as a Catholic) that it is talking about Mary. And I figured that most Protestants must think that this woman is someone besides Mary, but I wasn’t sure who else it could be. I hadn’t thought of the possibility of identifying her as Israel.

Anyway, I guess it’s just another case of how a passage can seem to “obviously” mean one thing to one group, and “obviously” mean something else to another group, depending on which tradition is guiding our interpretation.

Paul

In her book Mary, Hilda Graef noted that of 88 Catholic interpretations of the passage, 26 took the woman in chapter 12 to be Mary.​

So that interpretation, though it seems to be the only one known to many Catholics, is not the only one in the history of the interpretation of the book by Catholics - nor is it the majority interpretation. It is not the earliest, either.

Which bears out the truth of what you say

IMHO, the woman is not an individual person, but a representative symbol, like the dragon and the great whore. I think she represents the Jerusalem Church, early in the Jewish War of 66-73; which is not to deny that she has traits of Israel, Mary, and so on: but ISTM that they are secondary to her principal identity. ##

 

[Schabel]

Mickey:

Sacred Tradition interprets her as The Blessed Virgin Mary. And so I obediently accept this.

Sacred Tradition, AFAIK, interprets her as BOTH TheBlessed Virgin AND Israel. But this is so easy to see, since MARY represents the nation of Israel!

So, the woman represents Mary who represents Israel, thus combining the interpretations.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Schabel:

Sacred Tradition, AFAIK, interprets her as BOTH TheBlessed Virgin AND Israel. But this is so easy to see, since MARY represents the nation of Israel!

So, the woman represents Mary who represents Israel, thus combining the interpretations.

AFAIK??

 

[ekim61]

(I’m Baptist and) I always viewed the woman as Israel. If you consider that as Israel - giving birth to the King - Jesus - and Satan spent his time attacking Christ and trying to circumvent the will of God, you can see the resemblance.

**Of course, this is taking a real symbolic viewpoint. But then most of Revelations is symbolic. **It is apocalyptic literature that uses metaphors and similes throughout - very similar to the book of Daniel. There could be many possible explanations and I’m nowhere near a theologian or Bible scholar to point to which one is correct.

Peace…

That’s odd because the Baptist church that I went to taught that all of scripture was to be taken literally.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

ekim61:

That’s odd because the Baptist church that I went to taught that all of scripture was to be taken literally.

I guess that it is up to them to decide which part of Scripture is literastic and which part of Scripture is allegorical because they have no Sacred Tradition to go by.

The Apocalypse of John is a revelation of the Mass in Heaven.

 

[Theodora]

On one of the shows I was watching, it could be either Jack van Impe or Hall Lindsey’s, I heard it being said that the woman is the Church. There was not much of an explanation, but it was declared as a matter-of-fact.

I think the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe depicts the description of the woman in Revelation 12 pretty well: woman clothed with the sun, moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars.

Does anyone has an explanation for v.6 where it says that *the woman fled into the wilderness. *Anyone has an idea what this could represent?

 

[Darrel]

I think it is interesting that the blessed mother is described as being “clothed in the son”. I take this as meaning glowing brightly like the sun.

Jesus her son is described by the same author in revelation 1:16 as follows

In his right hand he held seven stars. A sharp two edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at it’s brightest.

Sounds like a case of like Mother like Son in this description. (Just my opinion)

-D

 

[Darrel]

One other question with regards to the protestant idea that the woman is Israel.

Why would Israel be clothed in the sun? In scripture when these descriptions are seen they are all with regards to a single being. In the KJV it is often called countenance ie glow. It is used to described angels etc. Why would Israel be described in such a way by the author in this case?

Example:

Matthew 28:3 (King James Version)

His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow

-D