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AgnosTheist
Guest
what about you?
- Status
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Mannyfit75
Guest
What about me? Do I debate to myself?
Yes, when I examine my conscious and reflect on the ten commandments. When you were a Catholic, I’m sure you examine your conscious before going to confession. Isn’t it difficult to decide which of the ten commandment you actually broken? Is this sin, venial or mortal? Did I intentionally hit my brother and want him dead? Do I really hate my mom and dad for disagreeing with me about what I can do… or I was just borrowing that car without asking. It can’t be stealing? I was going to return it anyways…That girl at the Legal Study class is hot… she even looks great with gym shorts and shirt… so tight on her body… yummy… oh… was I lusting over her?
These are just prime example, you have to debate with yourself…
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AgnosTheist
Guest
are you a cafeteria catholic?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
No. I am a practicing Catholic because when I sin, I go to confession. I also go to Daily Mass, and Sunday Mass. I received Communion Daily, and I also preach the Gospel to those who wants to hear the Word of God.
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
May God bless.
Often, I debate through Action.
I live in the country South Africa, where a Protestant (“Dutch Reformed”" Church"- Calvinistic) Government Justified Apartheid, (alot of our problems here spring from the fact Anglicans and Catholics Apposed Apartheid, and Catholics were named the Roomse Gevaar (I think- Roman Threat), but maybe there is problems elsewhere).
many of our worst people are “Christian” (with our crime rate, and the threats of “Kill and die for Zuma” (mirrored with “Arm and kill” for “democracy and Afrikaner freedom” threats from the Afrikaaner opposition (very small), (the english speaking opposition is taking this to court- the statements by the Zuma Followers, to think his followers stoned a woman they thought was the one to accuse him of rape, she is now hiding in britain, mind you he did have sex with her, if I remember, but his wives did not seem to object to this)), a politician, who has been accused of threatening judges, mind you, I neither support “Honorary Pastor” Jacob ZUma (not Dutch Reformed), or his opponents, but rather my private vote, but I find it funny how our politics and “Christianity” are so caught up, Mugabe is also “Christian”, so are many- but the situation is complex in our land )(I am not here attacking Mr Zuma, or anybody either, my political views are not here- the church (Archbishop Buthi of Johannesburg) has of course critisized both sides of our ruling party, and other sections of Government with “South Africa on slide to sin and ruin” statements)so, I don’t debate Protestants, but people, whatever they are. The church is a Psychiatrist, it deals with the soul- so I debate all, even the wise- and so far as Protestant, or Cafiteria- well, they are people, their problems are equally sortable, when they are seeking truth, and nominal when they reject such. Pray for South Africa, we are shivering in these times (Not just because of the Electricity hikes, inflation, and other issues)
The point being that Christian, or protestant, or whatever- the values differ greatly, and I debate with people, many of which do not believe in God, but are religious,
I Love the church, and know She is sanity.
I also know that it is her folds, that warm me.
newconscience.googlepages.com/merenessoftruth
Often, I debate through Action.
I live in the country South Africa, where a Protestant (“Dutch Reformed”" Church"- Calvinistic) Government Justified Apartheid, (alot of our problems here spring from the fact Anglicans and Catholics Apposed Apartheid, and Catholics were named the Roomse Gevaar (I think- Roman Threat), but maybe there is problems elsewhere).
many of our worst people are “Christian” (with our crime rate, and the threats of “Kill and die for Zuma” (mirrored with “Arm and kill” for “democracy and Afrikaner freedom” threats from the Afrikaaner opposition (very small), (the english speaking opposition is taking this to court- the statements by the Zuma Followers, to think his followers stoned a woman they thought was the one to accuse him of rape, she is now hiding in britain, mind you he did have sex with her, if I remember, but his wives did not seem to object to this)), a politician, who has been accused of threatening judges, mind you, I neither support “Honorary Pastor” Jacob ZUma (not Dutch Reformed), or his opponents, but rather my private vote, but I find it funny how our politics and “Christianity” are so caught up, Mugabe is also “Christian”, so are many- but the situation is complex in our land )(I am not here attacking Mr Zuma, or anybody either, my political views are not here- the church (Archbishop Buthi of Johannesburg) has of course critisized both sides of our ruling party, and other sections of Government with “South Africa on slide to sin and ruin” statements)so, I don’t debate Protestants, but people, whatever they are. The church is a Psychiatrist, it deals with the soul- so I debate all, even the wise- and so far as Protestant, or Cafiteria- well, they are people, their problems are equally sortable, when they are seeking truth, and nominal when they reject such. Pray for South Africa, we are shivering in these times (Not just because of the Electricity hikes, inflation, and other issues)
The point being that Christian, or protestant, or whatever- the values differ greatly, and I debate with people, many of which do not believe in God, but are religious,
I Love the church, and know She is sanity.
I also know that it is her folds, that warm me.
newconscience.googlepages.com/merenessoftruth
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Claudius
Guest
I usually debate with Cafeteria Catholics more. I suppose the reason is that I slam dunk protestants too hard and they run away. They see that I will not convert and then are in fear that I will convert them, which is what God wants for them and just can’t take all the blunt truth.
Cafeteria Catholics will try to stick it out with me because they actually want to change the church. One guy was actually telling me that protestants were better Christians than Catholics because they had liberal democracy and no dictatorships. Boy did he get an earful from me. I do not believe that protestants are Christians and liberal democracy as in sexual license and abounding in sin.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
From my personal perspective, I have these discussions (debates) with more Cafeteria Catholics. What is sad, is that I see me when I was younger and thought I knew so much. Boy was I wrong. Hopefully as they grow, they will keep reading and studying their faith Our faith.? It is true and correct. you know, ALL OF IT.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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love4mary
Guest
What do you do when the “Cafeteria” Catholic is a Priest?
We have a 79 year old retired priest who fills in for our regular pastor when he is away. I personally like this man very much but when he told me that the Church INVENTED the devil to scare little kids and that women would make compassionate priests, I almost choked.
I find discussing the faith with the Cafeteria Catholics much more stressful and very much less fruitful (least from my perspective) then discussing the faith with Protestants.
In all honesty, I have tremendously more respect for the average “Mr. and Mrs. Doe” Protestant who simply lives out their lives faithful to the teaching of their church without picking and choosing what/how/when to believe.
We have a 79 year old retired priest who fills in for our regular pastor when he is away. I personally like this man very much but when he told me that the Church INVENTED the devil to scare little kids and that women would make compassionate priests, I almost choked.
I find discussing the faith with the Cafeteria Catholics much more stressful and very much less fruitful (least from my perspective) then discussing the faith with Protestants.
In all honesty, I have tremendously more respect for the average “Mr. and Mrs. Doe” Protestant who simply lives out their lives faithful to the teaching of their church without picking and choosing what/how/when to believe.
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Meg74
Guest
I was actually going to post something about this separately, because I find myself in a weird social position. I’m the practising Catholic in my social group, I don’t discuss it much, I just do my thing.
Instead of getting caught up in debates, I go to dinners where I’m literally attacked. Friends get drunk and the next thing you know, you’re the target. One friend yelled at me (unprovoked), “The Catholic Church killed more people than the Nazis.” Yes, he’s proudly German, but he’s also a lapsed Catholic.
To answer the question, I find that the most disparaging, defensive, argumentative people are former Catholics or lapsed Catholics. What’s so frustrating is that they all spew the same nonsense they picked up in The Da Vinci Code, or some other sort of fictional source. I can let it go, and I don’t engage, I feel secure enough having done my own studies. It’s just strange. How can anyone abandon anything so rich with truth?
The irony is, I also live in South Africa, and the people who attack me the most for my religion went to the previous elitist, all-white Protestant schools. I attended Catholic school for 12 years, non-racial, and have a very different history to the white South Africans around me. I thank the Catholic Church every day for making sure I grew up refusing to sing the apartheid govt’s national anthem, that I knew my history textbooks reflected merely one side of the story, and my class was always filled with kids in interracial relationships and friendships.
One of my favourite memories is when our junior school attended a speech by the former SA prime minister - a real piece of work - it was the famous Rubicon speech. And all over the front pages of the newspaper the next day was the article about the speech, highlighted by a photo of two young best friends from my school - a Xhosa kid called Walter and his best bud, Portuguese kid called Mario - completely oblivious that under the laws of the country, their friendship was illegal!
Back to the point (phew!) - the very same people who yell at me over dinner about Catholicism are the same people who in the next breath insult and denigrate the other races of our country. And these people are into “spirituality”, strange hybrids of their own making, which to my ear and eye looks like the perfect excuse to be as self-absorbed as you can be…
Long one, I know - haven’t been on here in a while, and I’ve been needing to get that out!
Instead of getting caught up in debates, I go to dinners where I’m literally attacked. Friends get drunk and the next thing you know, you’re the target. One friend yelled at me (unprovoked), “The Catholic Church killed more people than the Nazis.” Yes, he’s proudly German, but he’s also a lapsed Catholic.
To answer the question, I find that the most disparaging, defensive, argumentative people are former Catholics or lapsed Catholics. What’s so frustrating is that they all spew the same nonsense they picked up in The Da Vinci Code, or some other sort of fictional source. I can let it go, and I don’t engage, I feel secure enough having done my own studies. It’s just strange. How can anyone abandon anything so rich with truth?
The irony is, I also live in South Africa, and the people who attack me the most for my religion went to the previous elitist, all-white Protestant schools. I attended Catholic school for 12 years, non-racial, and have a very different history to the white South Africans around me. I thank the Catholic Church every day for making sure I grew up refusing to sing the apartheid govt’s national anthem, that I knew my history textbooks reflected merely one side of the story, and my class was always filled with kids in interracial relationships and friendships.
One of my favourite memories is when our junior school attended a speech by the former SA prime minister - a real piece of work - it was the famous Rubicon speech. And all over the front pages of the newspaper the next day was the article about the speech, highlighted by a photo of two young best friends from my school - a Xhosa kid called Walter and his best bud, Portuguese kid called Mario - completely oblivious that under the laws of the country, their friendship was illegal!
Back to the point (phew!) - the very same people who yell at me over dinner about Catholicism are the same people who in the next breath insult and denigrate the other races of our country. And these people are into “spirituality”, strange hybrids of their own making, which to my ear and eye looks like the perfect excuse to be as self-absorbed as you can be…
Long one, I know - haven’t been on here in a while, and I’ve been needing to get that out!
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
I remember going to one of the New Wave churches, almost no connection between races, my Grandfather was an anti-apartheid politition, and members of my extended family often have fascinating stories, I am glad also- the racism is not only against Catholics in South Africa, ironically, the genisis argument against racial harmony is about as convincing to some persons as the revelation one about Catholic people being satanists, of course, when you show pictures of Satan’s heirachi in your religion’s maskarading schools (nearly spelt in Afrikaans, with your localness, ironically this one was english), and include Catholicism and Islam, then you know that there is no truth in the religion they follow. Of course neither argument is logical, but racist bigots are easily convinced by any similarity, even imagined. Of course, it is harder now, but religion in South Africa, has often been an ideological tool, to gain power, and spread hatred, sadly, I often see the hatred spread through people who invoke their Jesus. Luckily, there are many other groups, anglicans and methodists, are often a refreshing group to speak to, as with other real Christian groups, not that any one church isn’t, but then again anyone who is baptised is “christian”, and I can’t rant further, because that isn’t the topic.
Ons is die Roomse Gevaar, mense moet pas op
. Ons lief elke mense
. Dit is 'n baie baie groot kwessie 
.
Ons is die Roomse Gevaar, mense moet pas op
. Ons lief elke mense . Dit is 'n baie baie groot kwessie .
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khutcheson
Guest
AMEN
I wish more people would realize that your most effective testimony is their conduct, the way they live their lives. You are much more likely to antagonize someone in a debate or an argument than to conver them.
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
As per usual, wrong, how many people have you converted, as you are such an expert,
Then again there is aggressive and assertive debate,
Generally speaking, I think anyone who does not want to educate his neighbor, and himself if he is the one who is wrong,
is certainly not aiming at truth (I Corinthians 13), yes, preach the gospel with actions, but when necessary, which it often is, do not deny others the use of logic, of words. Otherwise they just think, well I don’t know what they think, but anyone who knows me knows I’m Catholic, and often ask me constantly about things, but that’s because I’m open and honest, and they also know that if you insult my faith, I debate,l and reveal the real truth, if not immediately, and they lose the debate, as publically as they made the statement.
Then again there is aggressive and assertive debate,
Generally speaking, I think anyone who does not want to educate his neighbor, and himself if he is the one who is wrong,
is certainly not aiming at truth (I Corinthians 13), yes, preach the gospel with actions, but when necessary, which it often is, do not deny others the use of logic, of words. Otherwise they just think, well I don’t know what they think, but anyone who knows me knows I’m Catholic, and often ask me constantly about things, but that’s because I’m open and honest, and they also know that if you insult my faith, I debate,l and reveal the real truth, if not immediately, and they lose the debate, as publically as they made the statement.
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khutcheson
Guest
Thank you for making my point.
In my opinion ad hominem attacks are ineffective as well as unpleasant.
K
khutcheson
Guest
Or they decide that responding to nasty comments isn’t worth their time.
And doesn’t that make you a cafeteria Catholic?
I don’t understand what liberal democracy, sexual license and abounding in sin have to do with this thread, or Protestants.
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Cinette
Guest
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Marc_Aupiais
Guest
I’m glad things are so clear to you.
“According to John Paul II, in order to properly understand the Church’s teaching about its role in Christ’s scheme of salvation, two truths must be held together: “the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all humanity” and “the necessity of the Church for salvation” (Redemptoris Missio 18). John Paul taught us that the Church is “the seed, sign, and instrument” of God’s kingdom and referred several times to Vatican II’s designation of the Catholic Church as the “universal sacrament of salvation”:
“The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, and her activity is not limited only to those who accept her message” (RM 20).
“Christ won the Church for himself at the price of his own blood and made the Church his co-worker in the salvation of the world. . . . He carries out his mission through her” (RM 9).
In an address to the plenary assembly of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (January 28, 2000), John Paul stated, “The Lord Jesus . . . established his Church as a saving reality: as his body, through which he himself accomplishes salvation in history.” He then quoted Vatican II’s teaching that the Church is necessary for salvation.
In 2000 the CDF issued Dominus Iesus, a response to widespread attempts to dilute the Church’s teaching about our Lord and about itself. The English subtitle is itself significant: “On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.” It simply means that Jesus Christ and his Church are indivisible. He is universal Savior who always works through his Church:”
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp
Is as clear to me,
sad, you are doing exactly what you appose against protestants to us,
“This strange disconnect between the activists and the people they supposedly care about springs to mind when I contemplate the Catholic Church in this country. One of the concerns among hand-wringing “progressives” is the psychological trauma inflicted on well-meaning non-Catholic visitors to Mass when they are informed that they cannot receive Communion.” Mark Shea
2002 This Rock November 2002
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211fea5.asp
To me, that is all.
“According to John Paul II, in order to properly understand the Church’s teaching about its role in Christ’s scheme of salvation, two truths must be held together: “the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all humanity” and “the necessity of the Church for salvation” (Redemptoris Missio 18). John Paul taught us that the Church is “the seed, sign, and instrument” of God’s kingdom and referred several times to Vatican II’s designation of the Catholic Church as the “universal sacrament of salvation”:
“The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, and her activity is not limited only to those who accept her message” (RM 20).
“Christ won the Church for himself at the price of his own blood and made the Church his co-worker in the salvation of the world. . . . He carries out his mission through her” (RM 9).
In an address to the plenary assembly of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (January 28, 2000), John Paul stated, “The Lord Jesus . . . established his Church as a saving reality: as his body, through which he himself accomplishes salvation in history.” He then quoted Vatican II’s teaching that the Church is necessary for salvation.
In 2000 the CDF issued Dominus Iesus, a response to widespread attempts to dilute the Church’s teaching about our Lord and about itself. The English subtitle is itself significant: “On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.” It simply means that Jesus Christ and his Church are indivisible. He is universal Savior who always works through his Church:”
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp
Is as clear to me,
sad, you are doing exactly what you appose against protestants to us,
“This strange disconnect between the activists and the people they supposedly care about springs to mind when I contemplate the Catholic Church in this country. One of the concerns among hand-wringing “progressives” is the psychological trauma inflicted on well-meaning non-Catholic visitors to Mass when they are informed that they cannot receive Communion.” Mark Shea
2002 This Rock November 2002
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211fea5.asp
To me, that is all.
- Status