Who do you pray to?

[Selene]

I am considering conversion to Catholicism. So I have several questions and this seemed like the right place. I have heard from my pastor’s wife that before she became Assemblies of God, she was taught by the Catholic church that she should pray to the saints instead of praying directly to God or Jesus which is what most protestant denominations teach.

Hello Curiousgirl,

When we pray to the Saints we are asking them to intercede for us. We ask them to pray for us just as we ask those living on earth to pray for us. We believe that those living in Heaven are alive for God is not a God of the dead, but a God of the living (Mark 12:26-27). Those who are judged worthy of the resurrected life are alive to God (Luke 20:34-38). In fact, Jesus even demonstrated to Peter, James, and John that the “saints” of the Old Covenant are alive when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the mountain of transfiguration (Mark 9:4).

It is also important to note that intercession is not mediation; there is only one mediator: Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only ont to bridge heaven and earth. His singular mediation, however, does not prevent, exclude, or discourage intercessory prayer. Just as we ask our brothers and sisters on earth to pray for us, so do we ask our brothers and sisters in Heaven to also pray for us.

Jesus prayed that his followers would be united to each other just as closely as he was united to the Father (John 17:20-23). This close, lving unity among all who belong to God through Jesus is what the Creed calls “communion.” When Catholics profess that they believe in the communion of saints, they are professing their unity with all the faithful followers of Jesus Christ.

Catholicsm not only teaches that you and I can pray for others and that others can pray for us, but the doctrine of the Communion of Saints teaches that the saints in Heaven can pray for us as well. Death does not destroy the bonds of love because love is greater than death.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Robert in SD, I just wanted to say I applaud your level headedness and civility in response to obvious (to me at least) attempts to stir up trouble. Your signature makes perfect sense

Hey thanks a lot. Much appreciated.

Peace,
Robert

 

[swplan76]

But to did jesus give the keys to the kingdom of heaven? he didn;t give it to everyone he gave to his representative on earth (peter - therefore the catholic church). He promised he would send the holy spirit to guide the apostles and he did at pentecost, on whom did the holy spirit descend on at pentecost? it was the apostles, no-one else. Why didn’t the holy spirit descend on everyone then? this is a clear example that god was giving his authority to his holy catholic church to forgive and loose sins. There has to be an authority (the holy spirit through the catholic church) to guide and preach the truth against sin and ultimately error.

When the reformation happened, there were clearly two groups on different sides of Luther’s 95 theses. Before that, the orthodox church and the Catholic church had a split. So, here’s a question: Just because people have a disagreement and begin to disassociate with each other, does that mean that God chose one of them over the other? I think you said it, the Holy Spirit is our primary authority - there is nothing pointing to the idea that humanity has any control over God. The Catholic church believes that it has “the keys.” I believe the Church has the keys. The Church as I see it is not limited to the Catholic church. I believe God is speaking to people both inside the Catholic church and in other denominations.

“Error”
Its not about being right. You and I fall short of the glory of God. There is nothing I can do to be free of error. God does it all. I sin on a regular basis - I am not the standard by which others should judge themselves - He does that for us. There is no group of humans who will consistently present the perfect message - God does that for us through the Holy Spirit.

You don’t believe that the scriptures encourage the idea that the church has the truth? Well then here are some bible passages that prove the authority of the catholic church:

We access the truth through the Holy Spirit. Your passages don’t “prove the authority of the Catholic church.” Standing together or alone, it would be very difficult for someone to come to the conclusions you have without much theology and church doctrine surrounding them.

The Church is the body of Christ, the community of Christ. It is called to teach, encourage, support, love and… lots of things through out the New Testament letters. In scripture, the Church is not defined by the authority of one group over others. Even in the beginning Peter had his group and Paul had his - they didn’t worry about control because God is in control. The Holy SPirit is present here among us.

You say you don’t see yourself excluded from the catholic church? Unfortunately for you there is 2000 years of church teaching and the early church fathers who disagree with you. There is only 1 body of Jesus Christ and that is his Holy Catholic church, if yo do not accept the teachings and instructions of the church, then how can you say that you are catholic? It’s like saying you are a muslim but don’t accept mohammed as a true prophet from god.

I don’t believe the things that separate Catholics and Protestants are as massive as we imagine them to be. We disagree on many things, yes, but we believe in Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for our sins and that God sent Jesus in order to restore us and all of creation back to Himself. We agree on the important things. I am a Christ-ian because I am a Christ follower - I think you are too.

The holy spirit does guide us through the catholic church, it has never and will never change it’s teachings and has proven that it has apostolic succession and has not broken the line of the chair of st peter.

I also pray that all christians return home to the catholic church. I pray for it everyday, but please note that the catholic church cannot and will not compromise any part of the faith for the sake of union with other denominations, the union with christ is the most important one to the church, it will never compromise it.

God bless you.

I don’t want you to think like me. I want you to trust God. I want you to seek His way for you. I think we can work together without having to agree on the small stuff.

Peace,
SW

 

[curiousgirl26]

Thanks everyone for the insight. Sorry that the post got a little hijacked. Every Catholic that I have asked personally has said the same thing.

 

[Louie1983]

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When the reformation happened, there were clearly two groups on different sides of Luther’s 95 theses. Before that, the orthodox church and the Catholic church had a split. So, here’s a question: Just because people have a disagreement and begin to disassociate with each other, does that mean that God chose one of them over the other? I think you said it, the Holy Spirit is our primary authority - there is nothing pointing to the idea that humanity has any control over God. The Catholic church believes that it has “the keys.” I believe the Church has the keys. The Church as I see it is not limited to the Catholic church. I believe God is speaking to people both inside the Catholic church and in other denominations.

**

We are not talking about the orthodox, they are a completely different story. They still maintain the same traditions and teachings as the catholic church, where lutherans, protestantism have changed their doctrines and beliefs (and continue to do so). If people disagree with the with the church that doesn;t mean that god has chosen one over the other, it means that the person has chosen himself over god and his church! Like what luther did, he couldn;t bring himself to agree with church teaching so he left. The holy spirit is the primary authority but he reveals himself to us in the catholic churrch. If you believe that the holy spirit speaks to different denominations then why the difference in doctrines and opinions?

"Error"
Its not about being right. You and I fall short of the glory of God. There is nothing I can do to be free of error. God does it all. I sin on a regular basis - I am not the standard by which others should judge themselves - He does that for us. There is no group of humans who will consistently present the perfect message - God does that for us through the Holy Spirit.
Actually you are incorrect here, It is all about being right and being sure that what is taught is the truth. You are right there is nothing freeing you or me of being without error, so i guess it’s a good thing that Jesus promised he would send the holy spirit to his church to guide and enlighten. This is why the catholic church is not wrong when it comes to the faith.

We access the truth through the Holy Spirit. Your passages don’t “prove the authority of the Catholic church.” Standing together or alone, it would be very difficult for someone to come to the conclusions you have without much theology and church doctrine surrounding them.

Yes they do and the fact that you have merely brushed them off instead of refuting them with scripture is evidence that you cannot make an argument. This was the teaching (still is obviously) of the church for 1500 years before the reformation, this is plenty of theology and church doctrine to support this wouldn’t you say?

The Church is the body of Christ, the community of Christ. It is called to teach, encourage, support, love and… lots of things through out the New Testament letters. In scripture, the Church is not defined by the authority of one group over others. Even in the beginning Peter had his group and Paul had his - they didn’t worry about control because God is in control. The Holy SPirit is present here among us.

I agree with the first sentence about the church and the body of christ.

However, you are incorrect in saying that in scripture the church is not defined to a group to which authority has been given. I have given scripture passages that explain this, Paul didn’t have his group and Peter didn;t have his, They were all united and peter was recognised as the first among equals, and recognised as the leader (he even made council decisions - i,e circumcision). And there are hundreds of quotes from the early church fathers to support Peter as being the leader of the church militant.

I don’t believe the things that separate Catholics and Protestants are as massive as we imagine them to be. We disagree on many things, yes, but we believe in Jesus as the atoning sacrifice for our sins and that God sent Jesus in order to restore us and all of creation back to Himself. We agree on the important things. I am a Christ-ian because I am a Christ follower - I think you are too.

Actually the things we disgree on are quite big. Yes we believe that Jesus is lord of all and saviour, but there are many things that are quite important that we disagree on such as The virgin mary, infallibility of the pope, the authority of the catholic church etc. To suggest that these are “not massive as we imagine them to be” is quite incorrect as it is what separates in the first place.

**I don’t want you to think like me. I want you to trust God. I want you to seek His way for you. I think we can work together without having to agree on the small stuff.

Peace,
SW****
Believe me, i don’t think like you. I think that is quite evident in the discussion we have had here. Yes we can work together, but i can never compromise the faith and the church. That will never happen. I do trust in God whole heartedly, i trust in his church and the authority that he has given to it.

This is where i think you need to focus on and prayerfully consider.

Peace.

 

[Monica4316]

I am considering conversion to Catholicism. So I have several questions and this seemed like the right place. I have heard from my pastor’s wife that before she became Assemblies of God, she was taught by the Catholic church that she should pray to the saints instead of praying directly to God or Jesus which is what most protestant denominations teach. She mentioned something about Novena’s also. Any insight would be appreciated. I think she converted pre-Vatican II since a lot has changed and she understands that. I have plenty of other questions but I’ll save them for later.

Hi Curiousgirl,

I pray to Jesus every day
the Catholic Church has always encouraged prayer to God, and before VII as well. This is not a new thing. There are many, many prayers and devotions to Jesus in the Church. We also ask the Saints to pray for us, just like we ask our friends here on earth. Our Lady has a special place cause she’s so close to Him in Heaven, - and her prayers are very powerful. But in the end, God is the one who decides how a prayer is answered…all prayers eventually go to Him.

Novenas are just 9 day prayers. I’ve found they’re pretty effective cause when you pray for something for 9 days, that teaches perseverence.

feel free to ask any other questions

God bless!

 

[swplan76]

---

Believe me, i don’t think like you. I think that is quite evident in the discussion we have had here. Yes we can work together, but i can never compromise the faith and the church. That will never happen. I do trust in God whole heartedly, i trust in his church and the authority that he has given to it.

This is where i think you need to focus on and prayerfully consider.

Peace.

Agreed!

 

[1beleevr]

Robert in sd: You are obviously well versed in scripture, and I applaud your diligence to your religion! For most of my 42 years as a follower of Christ, I have been naive to the guidance of the Holy Spirit! As I mature in my walk, it becomes apparent to me, that all Christians can, and are led by the Holy Spirit, and if open to God’s direction, can be used by Him! Intercessory prayer is a viable and valuable tool, because there is strength in numbers! And Jesus told us to pray like this,“Our Father, which art in Heaven…”!