Who do you say Christ is?

[Roseeurekacross]

You asked if I knew who she was. All we know is that Jesus cast 7 demons out of her and her money would have been aiding in the Ministry of Jesus. Many wealthy women were following and supporting the Apostles in their Ministry.

 

[BoyGenius]

As far as Pontius Pilate, if he had listened to his wife, he would have freed Jesus. After all he had the final say.

I believe the eastern churches have made Pontius Pilate and his wife Saints.

But that falls out of the dialogue. For the Jewish people said, “We have no king, but Caesar.” In fact, they put the Pontius Pilate at the time, in hot water. Because, if He let Jesus go, who said He was “king of the Jews.” That sounded like a threat to Caesar Augustus. In other words, the Scribes and studied people knew the laws of Rome. It wasn’t that he ignored his wife. Rather, he knew that the people were going to pit him against Caesar. There was a close tied relationship between Pontius Pilate and Herod. That means that word could get out that a Governor under Caesar let the “King of the Jews” go. That could insight as rebellion. So he just punished Jesus enough hoping He would stop. Of course, He didn’t.

I guess my point is, the wife of Pontius Pilate wasn’t ignored. obviously it would never had been recounted in Scripture, if he didn’t. And it was never told. Kind of in a humorful, should of listened to his wife the first time

 

[BoyGenius]

That was about much more then healing on the sabbath. Jesus touched lepers too. Also untouchable outcasts.

Social justice

Weren’t they all healed?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Ah so was Pontius Pilate allowing his Roman authority to be manipulated by the Sanhedrin ?

He was hoping the Jews would say free Jesus. Instead they chose Barabas, who was a first century organiser of rebellion as the story goes.

The Jews were a very rebellious difficult people that Rome had conquered. Jerusalem was considered a barbarian, always in revolt , outpost no one in Rome wanted to be posted to.

And the Jews knew who had the power. Rome.

 

[BoyGenius]

We don’t take the Bible without considering the cultural and political setting.

That is in Scripture. The people pitted Christ against Pontius Pilate to accuse Him of breaking the law of Rome, not Judaic laws. Because they couldn’t. Rather, they told Pilate that Jesus called Himself: King of the Jews. Herod, Pilate, and the people said they have no king but Caesar’s All the geo politics is played out quite clear/well.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Jesus healed so many people. Are you asking why leprocy wasn’t eradicated

 

[BoyGenius]

Jesus healed so many people. Are you asking why leprocy wasn’t eradicated

Good question. For if Jesus healed people then, why has it not stopped now? Or since He cured people back in the day, why did He not eradicate all those disease then? Answer, because sin exists in the world. He healed to save people from their sins. The Pharisee’s weren’t (saving people form their sins.) And the Sadducee’s didn’t. Lepers, the blind, the maimed, the weak, the stick, those caught in adultery, prostitutes, etc. were all being saved from their sins. Jesus was the true Messiah; the Anointed one of God. He had to heal them from the blindness His people fell into. The poisons of a pagan world. The struggling and dying in Jerusalem and all over the world there.

Those cures are still seen through Petitions to Saints, Eucharistic miracles, Mary’s Apparitions. Just as in Acts, God still works miracles. But He doesn’t eradicate disease, because sin still exists. People’s hearts have not changed. Hence why Our Lady offers her heart for Consecration. For the Salvation of Souls.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

The Sanhedrin had been trying to get hold of Jesus to murder Him for some time.

Jesus was a threat to them on a couple of levels.

Firstly Jesus was gathering a huge following and this was seen as dangerous to the delicate peace between Rome and Jerusalem. The Sanhedrin did not want Roman army coming down on them and inciting riot. It would have been incredibly difficult to be Caiaphas , trying to preserve His people and home and culture .

Secondly. Jesus was directly challenging Jewish authority. They would have loved to excommunicate Jesus if it were today.

Jesus was telling them they were hypocrites,

And most importantly, Chased all commerce out of the Temple.

Only one type of money was allowed to be used on temple grounds. Who was profiting from money changing?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

The world Jesus was born Incarnate is a fascinating chaotic and very difficult time.

I think a wonderful question is

Why was that world chosen by God.

I believe one reason Peter was chosen was because he had a strong character and could achieve his task. In those times, very much a man of the times.

Who was Peter as a man?

 

[BoyGenius]

Ah so was Pontius Pilate allowing his Roman authority to be manipulated by the Sanhedrin ?

What would happen if Pilate let Jesus go? Rebels ready to incite violence. A riot was about to break out. He did listen to his wife though, because he told the people to see to it their selves. He didn’t stop them, because of rioting. But, instead, to appease his warning of his wife. And to appease the crowd from rioting, he then offered Barabbas or Jesus. They chose Barabbas instead. Then Pontius Pilate (again, not having anything to do with this man) washed his hands.

Pretty clear and obvious he listened. Would it been better if his wife stood in the way and stopped the whole mess? In her own prudent judgement, not being treated with lower stature as a woman, she would not had done so. For, again as it was stated, riot was going to be incited if he did not observe their wishes .

 

[BoyGenius]

Who was Peter as a man?

he took care of his mother-in-law. Was a fisherman by trade. Answered and understood where many fell silent when he said: “You are Christ, the Son of the Living God.” But yet, he was “ye of little faith” when not being able to walk on water. He was a fearful man, denied Jesus three times. He counseled Jesus not to go to Jerusalem, for fear of what would happen to Christ. He later became courageous and stronger after the Resurrection as we see through Acts.

Consider, what was going on in Saint Peter’s mind when the thought that Jesus might be taken away when they were going into Jerusalem? He would had been the head of the Church. Made to suddenly take responsibility for the tasks and labor Christ set out for them. Without Jesus, Saint Peter was fearful and afraid being the Pope.

 

[BoyGenius]

And he touched her too. She would have been an untouchable female outcast from society.

The saints have lived this out for centuries, way before the term “social justice” was coined. Outcasts, all people with diseases, were treated the same. It wasn’t a preference of gender, but that people had a disease. Would you go close to someone wherefore you could catch an illness?

Christ brought forth Salvation. That’s thoroughly themed through the Gospel, the Church Father’s, and the Church’s life, since time immemorial. Through time she has stood against fertility cults, child sacrifice, built missions for the hungry, imprisoned (think of the enumerable times the Saints - especially Saint Peter and Saint Paul who were imprisoned), the sick, the naked. The Church has always held up for the dignity and value of human life. To be treated in God’s image, and after His likeness (i.e. love.)

So, through time - though not perfectly as no such thing with human members here on earth is perfect. But, regardless of imperfect persons’s (i.e. human), she has always upheld this call: For whatever you do to the least, you do to me.

Jesus did more than touched, He saved.

 

[BoyGenius]

Firstly Jesus was gathering a huge following and this was seen as dangerous to the delicate peace between Rome and Jerusalem. The Sanhedrin did not want Roman army coming down on them and inciting riot. It would have been incredibly difficult to be Caiaphas , trying to preserve His people and home and culture

Catacombs? That must be a large crowd. Saint Paul going after Christians? Saint Perpetua and Felicity? How strong were these Christian people? Why would you be afraid of people going into hiding? The Pharisee’s still have strong support of Rome. Not sure how much fearful the Sanhedrin could be. Their numbers, power, and strength caused many to hide. Saint Paul went about getting them stoned to death: Saint Stephen the first martyr.

Doesn’t sound like that really was the fear generating with the Sanhedrin. The fear was that they were not living out in Covenant. Jesus told them they server their father, the father of lies. He told everyone their sins. The people got irate and angry with Him, because of His testimony. He brought the works of Salvation. Jesus was killed for the same reason the Prophets were killed. For telling the truth of sin.

 

[BoyGenius]

That act, of Jesus talking to her would be the equivalent say in India of a highest caste born person going into and eating out of the same bowl , as the lowest class - the untouchables.

Actually that is not true. That’s reading another culture into Judaism. There were outside cultures that did influence Judaic culture (that is for sure, throughout the Old Testament. But wasn’t the basis of Judaism.) For that is why the people lived in Samaria (i.e. Samaritan’s.) They were of the 12 tribes of Israel that left, and intermingled with the people in that land. So they “worship what they do not know.”

The lady was a woman of Samaria. Jews were not accustomed to engaging the people of Samaria, because they worshiped what they do not know. And again, this Samaritan woman had 5 husbands, and one whom was not her husband. The woman of Samaria were generally pagan. And that is why the Jewish people cut them off. In fact, the lady (whom I believe is Saint Mary Magdalene) when wiping Jesus feet with her tears, the Pharisee asked did Jesus know what sorta woman this is.

 

[stpurl]

Don’t read more into something than there is. I know it’s hard for us 21st century people to accept, but ‘back in the day’ there were (still are) things that were more important than the ‘social status’ of men as opposed to women. For Jesus, the fact that He spoke to a Samaritan woman would indeed have been more shocking based on the fact that she was a Samaritan (Jesus Himself on another occasion had very harsh words for another non-Jewish woman, not because she was a ‘woman’ but because she was a Canaanite, and He specifically mentions in passages that He was sent ‘to the lost sheep of ISRAEL’ and that it is 'not right to give the children’s food to the dogs).

The Samaritan woman herself asks why a JEWISH man --not ‘a man’ would be speaking to her.

Justice for all in society is important, but we are 'neither male nor female, Jew or Greek/Gentile, slave or free, but all are one in Christ Jesus".

Seems to me that Jesus was and is more concerned about our soul and salvation than with achieving Utopia on earth, partly because an earthly Utopia’s ideas of perfection and justice do not ever quite align with God’s ideas. God doesn’t treat people ‘equally’ --He doesn’t make every person have exactly the same virtues, the same faults, the same lifespan, the same opportunities. God doesn’t necessarily think that ‘equality of the sexes’ means that all women and all men MUST be completely interchangeable, and that since people ‘with power’ are in a better situation than those ‘without power’ and that certain ‘tasks’ such as childbearing and rearing have no ‘power’ that if a woman ‘chooses’ to have a child she must be ‘rescued’ from that position of ‘no power’ and told that unless she goes out and is 'allowed to be like the men, having ‘power’ through her contributions to the workforce, that she is a 'drag on society, a lazy stupid parasite, etc. Is it truly justice to have, through inflation and societal pressures, breakdown of values, and lack of support to families, basically forced a person(s) with a child(children) to need two incomes (or one plus ‘assistance’) in order to throw material goods at children while denying them the physical and emotional attention of a parent/parents? For many women to go to work at jobs which do nothing for them in actually contributing to anything more than making products that are unnecessary, unhealthy, redundant etc. in order to ‘earn the money’ to ‘pay the childcare’ for some other poor person, usually a woman, to more or less babysit the first woman’s child/children, often to the extent of the second woman’s having to do less/neglect her OWN children?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

We cannot skip over the cultural and political setting Jesus lived in. Because in taking that into account, many wonderful Biblical layers are open to us. Throughout both Testaments we must read in the light of the setting to fully understand the message.

The social justice Jesus demonstrated in His Ministry should not be afforded 21st Century labels such as abuse and equality mitigation. It was about raising people up, the poor, the outcasts, the sinners, those tax collectors, the untouchables, demonstrating women had a place in His Ministry. As did reformed sinners like Saul, and Roman Officers. And children.

The Gospel of Luke is known for its parallels between men and women. It also puts both sexes on par. Luke wrote his Gospel for an audience not Jewish and not facing persecution. This Gospel concentrates and writes much on Gods Covenant of love, and forgiveness and it’s availability to the Gentiles through Jesus and His Ministry and His Church.
Luke is said to have written Acts also.
Compare this with the Gospel audience of Matthew - Jewish people wanting to cling to their ancient traditions. And upholding their Law, their Mosaic Law. Matthew was writing for them to say hey Jesus is the Christ, things have been added to our religion now through Jesus. Matthew wrote Jesus as an authority figure for the Jewish audience. As one with authority to add to that law.

The Gospel of John recounts the Samaritan woman at the well story. She is the first person Jesus openly says He is the Christ. And in speaking to her Jesus broke the cultural taboos of His time. Twice. She was a woman and a Samaritan. So yes He was Jewish and a Man. And He was speaking to her. And He did so in public. And shock horror, He was asking to share her drinking container. Why is this important. Jewish Law would have considered her implements unclean.
And those reasons give the Samaritan incident a crucial layer of social justice.

The Samaritan woman became the first to spread the Good News in the Gospel of John. The first evangelist in his Gospel. Jesus had called a woman to His Ministry, and to spread His Word to her people.
Johns Gospel audience was facing persecution. But they also thought they were the generation to be facing the end times, at the end of the first century. John was teaching his audience the many ways of imaging Jesus. The light of the world, the lamb of God, the Word, the bread of life, the living water, , the gate in the sheepfold, the way, the truth, the life. A healer, teacher, a cultural taboo breaker in order to include, raise up and love.

Jesus had a perfect human nature as well as a perfect divine nature in His Incarnation. He was human, He got hungry, tired, angry, sad, anxious, all of it, just as we do. Loved friends, was crushed when people,left him or betrayed or humiliated Him. Felt great pain.

This act with the Samaritan woman wasn’t about 21st Century issues of women earning. First Century women worked, earned, had babies. And in much harsher and tougher conditions then now.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

It had more to do with her being a Samaritan than a woman

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Here is a question for you. Which Gospels have the woman telling Jesus even dogs get scraps from their masters table.

What layers are hidden in the recounting of this incident?

Were Jesus words harsh? Did Jesus grant her request? What did Jesus want to teach the Jews of the great faith she had?

Jesus also knew this would be retold amongst the Jews but also reach out to be told everyone in the gentile nations

There is another woman in the New Testament, of her actions Jesus said she would be remembered forever when they were told. She anointed Him

She did what she could. She poured perfume on my body beforehand to prepare for my burial. I tell you the truth, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”

~ Mark 14:8-9

 

[BoyGenius]

What layers are hidden in the recounting of this incident?

“Hidden”? These aren’t inspired gnostic Gospel’s. Even Jesus stated never to hide the lantern under the bed. The “layers” you refer to are not hidden. But a compact statement by the Gospel writers. I think the Jewish word is a “toledote.” To bring/make special attention to a person/place/time. There are layers, because, like a painting, there’s more than meets the eye. Hence why we are yearning and always looking to see with the eyes of Faith. But as Saint Pope John Paul II always pointed out Fides et Ratio (faith and reason.)

In truth, I am not saying Jesus didn’t voice justice for women. But then again, He voiced justice for all people. Especially the poor.

The women from the Old Testament all the way to the Gospel, were courageous women. Me, I’d wanna marry a girl like that. Rebecca, Rachel, Sarah (both Abraham’s wife, and the other Sarah who in the book of Tobit), Judith, Ruth, Elizabeth, Our Lady, Saint Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, the Canaanite Woman, and the Samaritan woman, Saints Felicity and Perpetua, Saint Theresa of Lisuex, Saint Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Saint Bernadette, Saint Maria Goretti, Saint Katherine Drexel, Saint Josephine Bakhita, Saint Elizabeth Anne Seton, Saint Faustina. The list goes on and on and on…saints enumerable to count.

Jesus never elevated these women to do more than they could do. He elevated them to the marvel of Sainthood. That is rendered in/by God’s grace, not the natural order of social justice and equality. But by the marksmanship of grace through Jesus. To be in the world, but not of the world.

 

[BoyGenius]

I know it’s hard for us 21st century people to accept,

I kind of see the trend though. Since were at the stage and marvel, especially with the technological realm (perhaps the Roman’s thought this also back in the hay day), that we’ve climb some heights. And accomplished/achieved things never done before (just as the Roman’s did.) In fact, any/all civilizations appealed/made the same case. And in truth, here/now, we’ve done some great marvels. But even then, each proceeding century, we generally believe we’re counting the wrongs/failures of the previous, and working on correcting them.

Which, I think the poster cannot be faulted for. Woman having the right to vote and work. Not being treated sub-par. But in truth, even during the Victorian era, woman were not as ill treated as slaves (many African.) So, in truth, while there was a woman’s suffrage movement. Women, in general, have had a long standing elevation. For even the Monarch reigned through Queenship. Queen Victoria made a marker in British history with abolition of slavery as best as she could. Women have always held a supreme title in history. Both in the Greek Pagan world to the Judaic/Christian worlds. Woman and motherhood were respected. But, today’s century coming from the 19 and 20 the centuries. We’re always striving to do something better than we did before. For one, when it comes to labor. Regarding women: fair equal treatment at work. So there’s no question there are improvements we can make.

But, and that gets back to the 21st century themed trend. Sometimes were trying to correct a mistake and error, where there never was. And, that includes attacking the Traditional Family union in marriage. And that is a fault of the modern century. It tries to fault, and fix, to right a wrong, where there never was one. It’s a superiority judgement. And that is faulty.