Who does it hurt? or When It Comes to Illegitimacy, We’re Living in Separate Worlds: An Update on the White Underclass

[Bennie_P]

As attitudes on marraige change who really gets hurts? Are we breeding a world of poverty when we discard the old fashion and traditional ideas of marriage? Are the rich elite (Hollywood and the media) which promote sexual “freedom” the true hipocrats? as they lead the poor and un educated down the road of wrong thinking?

For your consideration from the reality of the “liberal” zone:

When It Comes to Illegitimacy, We’re Living in Separate Worlds: An Update on the White Underclass

It comes down to this: well-educated white women in moderately affluent circumstances almost never had babies without a husband, and women from middle class homes were almost as finicky about requiring a husband. At the same time, white women with no more than a high school education in low-income households were having nearly half of their babies without a husband.

And that was in a population that had an overall illegitimacy ratio of 11 percent. Today, the illegitimacy ratio for non-Latino whites is 28 percent. How do the classes break down now? As it happens, I’ve spent the last few weeks exploring that question. I’m not done, and want to save that discussion for a formal presentation in any case, but here are some tentative estimates: The illegitimacy ratio for the white underclass is probably now in the region of 70 percent. I think that the proportion for the white working class may be above 40 percent. The white middle class is approaching 20 percent—a scarily high figure when you think about all the ways that the middle class has been the spine of the nation.

The white overclass? They’re still living in the 1950s—their ratio is probably about 4 or 5 percent tops.

**Or is it the smart thing to do; that a woman should seek to get married to a good man and improve her chances of a life *not *in poverty for herself and her children? **

**What we appear to be doing in America is this - instead of raising the living standards of minorties, we are deroding the living standards of the majority. Which in essence becomes a breeding ground for warring tribes. Whites will blame the minorities for their misfortune and minorities will blame whites and or other groups (i.e. illeagal aliens). We have more and more young men with lost opportunies being raised without fathers, seeking family in the streets sooner or later it all breaks down… **

**Traditional marriage who needs it? **

 

[jeanannemarie]

There has been alot of discussion about this in our family. I will be interested in reading this thread to hear what others have to say. We have decided that the women’s “liberation” movement has played a big part in all this, too.

 

[ohioszo]

After hearing from a distant relative about her granddaughter who is 30 and has 4 children by as many black-american men, she is caucasian … I wonder too. Another family, the sister of an in-law is unmarried and has a number of children from a black-american that she lives with. Ditto for some daughters of a first cousin and my own niece, even with her graduate degree in accounting, has been impregnated by a black-american dropped out of college fellow who she has been living with. I have a classmate, most popular in my class, with good parents, who lived with a black-american after her first marriage. No catholic black-american men in this group … people who I believe will not be having children out of wedlock to this extent. In our area, there are only a few black-americans who are Catholic. Also, in our area, black-americans are lower to middle class, historically. They have just as good jobs as any caucasian.

The first person that I mentioned is on welfare and the group of folk her age are, accd’g to her grandmother “just sitting around together,” unemployed. To be fair, there has been illegtimacy, and divorce (after 4 children) in caucasian relationships. After 2 children from one man, my cousin’s daughter left their informal relationship. Their (un?) original excuse for not marrying, while living together, was for her to receive governmnent funding of her education … that worked well as she is now respectably employed as an LPN.

Hey! I’m a Family genealogist! I try to see the big picture, but, I wonder what the children will do twenty years from now, without a stricter value system!

Whomever the OP is, I have been thinking on this too. I was told that my niece’s live-in was starting RCIA, but, he isn’t in yet and her uncle, who is a priest, is marrying them. Modern-day, catholic version of shotgun … maybe. I’d like to tell her to break it off, although he has been included in family gatherings. Mainly because I think that her public college education needs to be tempered with some old fashioned values again, of respect for her family. It is not all about money.

One conclusion, with all of this child bearing black-caucasian, is that there is some ideas in this world that influence personal decision making about spousal choice, or, at the worst, bringing children of mixed race into the world that trumps the instinct to be able to care sufficiently for these children. Since I have seen a man, casually abuse his son, withholding medical care, I think that he feels that he got as much himself. Some people want their children to have more material things then they did … others seem to punish their children for living.

 

[Bennie_P]

This story concentrated on white women in order to concentrate on value or the lack of values concerning marriage in general, and not to get wrapped up on the values of different races, in other words not to be race baiting. Inter-racial marriage and/or bi-racial children creates it’s own problems, but I don’t think that is the cause of illegitmacy, if you want to talk about that subject start a new thread.

I attend a very diverse parrish, and I find that the “minorities” in the parrish seem to be in general more loyal to the Church teachings on marriage and most other moral issues then the “majority” members.

Even though I know I open that can of worms with on of my comments in OP, but let us get back to the issue of marriage and how it affects poverty of women and children, not race.

 

[ohioszo]

This story concentrated on white women in order to concentrate on value or the lack of values concerning marriage in general, and not to get wrapped up on the values of different races, in other words not to be race baiting. Inter-racial marriage and/or bi-racial children creates it’s own problems, but I don’t think that is the cause of illegitmacy, if you want to talk about that subject start a new thread.

I attend a very diverse parrish, and I find that the “minorities” in the parrish seem to be in general more loyal to the Church teachings on marriage and most other moral issues then the “majority” members.

Even though I know I open that can of worms with on of my comments in OP, but let us get back to the issue of marriage and how it affects poverty of women and children, not race.

I am not race-baiting. I don’t know what you mean by lower classes: It makes me sick when I hear people talk about the subject that you bring up, class differentials. But what is making us wonder now, is the illegitimacy with young men who are black. Hey, and we have to deal with it. If they were good men, they wouldn’t be impregnating my cousins. I will tell you what is suspicious, is that a child born was called “Bryceson” which is the surname of a family of Professors from England who studied this particular subject in Africa. A coincidence perhaps? I know that the black-American is improving their lot, and elsewhere they are doing it without drugs. These children are treated equally in our families with the rest. Skin color doesn’t matter, but, life-style matters. Basically, I said, take the young black man, and bring him into the family like my bro is doing … family outings, etc. Except, that is ignoring the motivation behind the person’s affair with one’s family member.

When it comes to the white so-called lower class … you might wonder about the KY transplants to OH from the coal areas. They work, start businesses perhaps, and then marry the locals. Just like any immigrant, I guess. Black-Americans, when working and not having these motivations I’m not bothered with. The truth is, Mexican Immigrants … God bless them for being Catholic (or JWs) are also hard-working and respectable … they just have to have that citizenship!

 

[manualman]

I don’t think race has a LICK to do with anything. CULTURE, however, has a TON to do with things.

I agree with the OP that a culture that enshrines marriage as THE healthiest way to raise children will thrive. A culture that pretends it is no big deal not to have a good father around is doomed to self-destructive behaviors.

I see no need to bring race into it. 80 years ago there was nothing in America stronger than the black family. They’d been to hell and back and they stuck together through it all - they HAD to. What happened? Culture changed. Poverty assistance programs favored the unwed mother to such an extent that families broke. Had nothing to do with race and everything to do with well intended, but ignorant and arrogant thinking. Without meaning to, the government declared that the poor, unemployed man had less than zero value - and they got the message.

 

[Bennie_P]

I am not race-baiting. I don’t know what you mean by lower classes: It makes me sick when I hear people talk about the subject that you bring up, class differentials. But what is making us wonder now, is the illegitimacy with young men who are black. Hey, and we have to deal with it. If they were good men, they wouldn’t be impregnating my cousins. I will tell you what is suspicious, is that a child born was called “Bryceson” which is the surname of a family of Professors from England who studied this particular subject in Africa. A coincidence perhaps? I know that the black-American is improving their lot, and elsewhere they are doing it without drugs. These children are treated equally in our families with the rest. Skin color doesn’t matter, but, life-style matters. Basically, I said, take the young black man, and bring him into the family like my bro is doing … family outings, etc. Except, that is ignoring the motivation behind the person’s affair with one’s family member.

When it comes to the white so-called lower class … you might wonder about the KY transplants to OH from the coal areas. They work, start businesses perhaps, and then marry the locals. Just like any immigrant, I guess. Black-Americans, when working and not having these motivations I’m not bothered with. The truth is, Mexican Immigrants … God bless them for being Catholic (or JWs) are also hard-working and respectable … they just have to have that citizenship!

Sorry if you think I said you were race baiting. In this instance when talking about lower clases I would say those that have come from working class families with little education as compared to those coming from professional or white collar educated families.

What you say about KY transplants can be said of other minority groups. As manualman pointed out, the point is in society we have a culture of discrediting traditional marriage and those that attitude has hurt the most is the lower working class, of all races and ethinc groups. The race comparison just leads to unnecessary identity politics and confuses the subject matter. IMHO. and that is the reason the writer of the piece stayed away from that aspect of the subject.

Myself I see the same type of behavoir of men (white men and with in my own family) not being responsible in their relationships, being black doesn’t make one irresponsible but culture attitudes may and do.

Myself I have no problem with “race” mixing, and have seen very successful incidents of it, I have two very beautiful neices from the result of the mix-race marriage of bro-in-law, but of course both him and his wife are devout and traditional Catholics that have high regard to the Chruch teachings on marriage and other moral issues.

Myself I believe a classless society is what our forfathers in America were attempting to creat, but too many ( not idicating you ) try hard to force that class struggle scenareo (sp) into the picture.