Who else is ready for Vatican III?

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tngail

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I feel like for lake of better words that we are going back wards. Vatican II isn’t being used as much in some Church’s. I don’t speak or understand Latin:blush: (I’m sure others don’t either), our lack of priests.
Perhaps it’s time for Vatican III.

Cindy
 
Vatican III: Gettin’ Medieval Wid It

I think we should get Sylvester Stallone and Spike Lee to direct it.

…

Nah in all seriousness the current Pope is doing a great job, it’s about correcting the abuses of V2, not undoing it completely. V2, properly implemented, is a wonderful thing.
 
My previous Pastor, a very devout and scholarly Dominican with advanced degrees in history, told us many times that it takes at least 100 years for the Church to stabilize after an ecumenical council. We are only in the first 40 years. Vatican II is only beginning to be studied, understood, and implemented.
 
Exactly. No offence, but “Vatican II not used”, my foot!

Our Holy Father is showing us we’re only now “getting with the program” after getting it wrong for a few decades!
 
tngail said:
I feel like for lake of better words that we are going back wards. Vatican II isn’t being used as much in some Church’s. I don’t speak or understand Latin:blush: (I’m sure others don’t either), our lack of priests.
Perhaps it’s time for Vatican III.
Click to expand...
And what’s on your agenda for Vatican III? Married priests? Women priests?

Unless the point of Vatican III is to scrap Vatican II, forget it. Any more of the sort of “progress” we got from Vatican II, and the Catholic Church will be down for the count.

Has anyone else read “Catholics: A Novel” by Brian Moore? In that book, written in the early '70s, but set after a future “Vatican IV,” Catholicism has practically merged with Buddhism. Funny novel, but sadly close to the truth.
 
V2 being all bad? Come on!

What about the Lectionary Cycle? Did you know that before V2 only the Gospel of Matthew was read, there was no Psalm, and there was no Old Testament reading?

Now, they have an OT, a Psalm, and a Gospel reading, and not only that but they are carefully selected to illustrate salvation history.

👍
 
mschrank said:
V2 being all bad? Come on!

What about the Lectionary Cycle? Did you know that before V2 only the Gospel of Matthew was read, there was no Psalm, and there was no Old Testament reading?

Now, they have an OT, a Psalm, and a Gospel reading, and not only that but they are carefully selected to illustrate salvation history.

👍
Click to expand...
I like my 1962 calander and readings thank you very much. 🙂
 
mschrank said:
V2 being all bad? Come on!

What about the Lectionary Cycle? Did you know that before V2 only the Gospel of Matthew was read, there was no Psalm, and there was no Old Testament reading?

Now, they have an OT, a Psalm, and a Gospel reading, and not only that but they are carefully selected to illustrate salvation history.

👍
Click to expand...
Not quite accurate. Actually mostly inaccurate.

Matthew was not the only Gospel read. It was the one most often heard. But, it was not exclusively used. For the TLM, this coming Sunday and the following Sunday have the Gospel Reading taken from Luke. Heck, the Gospel of John was used at the end of practically every Mass.

There was not a Responsorial Psalm. But, there was the Gradual - which was taken from the Psalms. Also, the Introit, and often the Communion verse were taken from the Psalms. The typical Sunday TLM probably contains more from the Psalms than the typical Sunday NO Mass.

Most Sundays did not include an OT Reading. A NT Reading and the Gospel were the norm. But, the OT was used extensively throughout the entire Mass. I would say that even without an OT Reading there is still more of the OT used in a typical TLM than in a typical NO Mass.

Also, occasionally there was a specific OT Reading - Advent, Lent, and the Ember days often featured an OT Reading.

Here is the Lectionary for the TLM.

James
 
we have not yet even begun to fully implement V2 so let’s give it a couple of hundred more years to sink in.
 
tngail said:
I feel like for lake of better words that we are going back wards. Vatican II isn’t being used as much in some Church’s. I don’t speak or understand Latin (I’m sure others don’t either), our lack of priests.
Perhaps it’s time for Vatican III.

Cindy
Click to expand...
The last thing we need is another opportunity for misrepresentation of The Faith. I think a valuable lesson was learned from the way the teachings of VII were hijacked. It will take a very long time to undo the damage which resulted. The Majesterium of the Catholic Church at long last is beginning to correct the excesses which were the result, not of Vatican II, but of the deliberate misrepresentation of it.
Before Vatican II the pews and seminaries were full. Now, at long last, the siminaries are starting to fill up again. The young people seem to have a tremendous longing for piety and holiness and are flocking to the Tridentine masses. Once again, it is Springtime in The Church and we are having a massive reawakening.

BTW, you don’t need to know Latin to understand the Latin Mass. The missal still, as it always has, the vernacular next to the Latin.
 
Maybe Vatican III can give us even better teachings than that from Nostra Aetate 3 of Vatican II.

“The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men.”

or

“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964).

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is Christ the son of Mary (Sura 5:72).

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary (Sura 5:17).

🤷
 
mschrank said:
V2 being all bad? Come on!

What about the Lectionary Cycle? Did you know that before V2 only the Gospel of Matthew was read, there was no Psalm, and there was no Old Testament reading?

Now, they have an OT, a Psalm, and a Gospel reading, and not only that but they are carefully selected to illustrate salvation history.

👍
Click to expand...
Where in the world are you getting your information from?

You are 100% wrong on only the Gospel of Matthew being read, Psalms were said throughout the Mass at least in part and yes, Old testament readings were often made.

I direct you for example to Friday of the third week of Lent:

INTROIT: Psalm 85 17
EPISTLE: Numbers 20, 2 3 6-13
GRADUAL: Psalm 27 7 1
GOSPEL: John 5-42
OFFERTORY; Psalm 5 3 4
COMMUNION: John 4 13 14

**Or perhaps the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
INTROIT: Revelation 12 1
EPISTLE Judith 13 22-25 15 10
GRADUAL: Psalm 44 11-12 14
GOSPEL: Luke 1 41-50
OFFERTORY: Genesis 3 15
COMMUNION Luke 1 48-49
**
I suggest you educate yourself on what actually happened in the Traditional Mass before you start throwing around statements as you did here.
 
Ignatius said:
BTW, you don’t need to know Latin to understand the Latin Mass. The missal still, as it always has, the vernacular next to the Latin.
Click to expand...
Now this is what I find confusing. If the point is to have the Mass in Latin and many of us have to depend on the side by side Vernacular translation, why is that good for us? Does God only understand Latin or what? Maybe I am just too old to understand and made a mistake when I happily experienced the change in the liturgy in the 60’s. When it’s done correctly I really prefer to celebrate mostly in English, while some Latin along with it seems to be very nice and nostalgic, but 100 percent Latin? Sorry, but I just don’t understand.
 
tngail said:
I feel like for lake of better words that we are going back wards. Vatican II isn’t being used as much in some Church’s. I don’t speak or understand Latin:blush: (I’m sure others don’t either), our lack of priests.
Perhaps it’s time for Vatican III.

Cindy
Click to expand...
Maybe Vatican III will bring back Latin in the Mass and a less modernist understanding of the Scared Scriptures. Ambiguity is not a friend of the Church and should have no place at Church councils. Let’s pray that Vatican III is a little less ambiguous, not allowing for multiple interpretations.
 
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