Who gave the world the Bible?

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geometer said:
The Tanakh corresponds to the old testament, but it is in the original language. The septuagint and Jesus are not mentioned in any of it. They both came at a later time in history.
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You missed my point. I’ll try to be clearer.

Whether Jesus quotes from the Septuagint or the Tanach is relevant. The point is…he never quotes from the later books that are found in the Septuagint but not the Tanach. That being said and what is written in Luke 11 and 24 gives a strong case for what OT we should be referring to as the Word of God.
 
Stouts989 said:
You missed my point. I’ll try to be clearer.

Whether Jesus quotes from the Septuagint or the Tanach is relevant. The point is…he never quotes from the later books that are found in the Septuagint but not the Tanach. That being said and what is written in Luke 11 and 24 gives a strong case for what OT we should be referring to as the Word of God.
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irrelevant*
 
ServantofChrist said:
It’s amazing what we debate. 2 Timothy 3:16 says “ALL Scripture is God breathed…” Who put the Bible together…God did! What men or women God used to put it together does not matter.

And the one true church everyone is talking about is not a denomination…it’s a group of believers from all over the world, all walks of life and various denominations. In John 3:16 God did not say “For God so loved the Catholics…” or “For God so loved the Protestants…” He said “For God so loved the WORLD…” which is anyone who will come to the knowledge of Christ.
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Here we agree. The Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church, is not a denomination. 👍
 
ServantofChrist said:
It’s amazing what we debate. 2 Timothy 3:16 says “ALL Scripture is God breathed…” Who put the Bible together…God did! What men or women God used to put it together does not matter.

And the one true church everyone is talking about is not a denomination…it’s a group of believers from all over the world, all walks of life and various denominations. In John 3:16 God did not say “For God so loved the Catholics…” or “For God so loved the Protestants…” He said “For God so loved the WORLD…” which is anyone who will come to the knowledge of Christ.
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I agree with your first paragraph - more than you do.

It makes no difference that the Catholics who worked on the canon were sinful people (as we all are). It’s the **Church **that God protects from error, not the individuals.

And we believe this today, too! When we talk about Catholic teaching, we are talking about the teaching authority of the Church, not the personal authority of the pope or even of the bishops as a group.

Without the authority of the Church, we would have no way of knowing that the canon is correct. This is why the Protestants felt free to change the canon–they didn’t accept the authority of the church.

Of course they like to say that the CC added books, but the evidence is clear that the Septuagint included what was later removed by the Jews (AD 100, or so).

So, the Protestants base their Bible on a Jewish canon that was different from what Jesus was using, and that wasn’t approved until after Jesus’ death.

The only reason for denying the canon of the Bible is denial of the Authority of the Church that Christ founded, in which case who determined the canon, the Catholic Church, does matter to you!
 
Eleve said:
Is the Qur’an God-breathed?

God only loves Christians?
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Wow…you people are touchy. The “World” is everyone on the planet. And no, the Qur’an is the not the Word of God.
 
kalt said:
I agree with your first paragraph - more than you do.

It makes no difference that the Catholics who worked on the canon were sinful people (as we all are). It’s the **Church **that God protects from error, not the individuals.

And we believe this today, too! When we talk about Catholic teaching, we are talking about the teaching authority of the Church, not the personal authority of the pope or even of the bishops as a group.

Without the authority of the Church, we would have no way of knowing that the canon is correct. This is why the Protestants felt free to change the canon–they didn’t accept the authority of the church.

Of course they like to say that the CC added books, but the evidence is clear that the Septuagint included what was later removed by the Jews (AD 100, or so).

So, the Protestants base their Bible on a Jewish canon that was different from what Jesus was using, and that wasn’t approved until after Jesus’ death.

The only reason for denying the canon of the Bible is denial of the Authority of the Church that Christ founded, in which case who determined the canon, the Catholic Church, does matter to you!
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When Jesus comes again, you honestly think He is coming back for the Catholic Church? So a person that has given their life to Christ, believed that Jesus died for them on the cross is not going to Heaven because they go to another church? You are saved because of your faith in Christ, not your faith in the church. If you believe this, I would like to see where this is taught in the Bible. Im sorry, Catholic, Baptist whatever are denominations…Christ did not set up a denomination…people did this when they decided to go their own way with what they believed. The Church Jesus is coming back for is not a denomination or a physical building…it is a group of believers who have put their trust and faith in Jesus Christ no matter what church they belong to…
 
And no, the Qur’an is the not the Word of God.
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Then when you say “ALL scripture is God-breathed,” don’t you have particular limitations in mind?
 
When Jesus comes again, you honestly think He is coming back for the Catholic Church? So a person that has given their life to Christ, believed that Jesus died for them on the cross is not going to Heaven because they go to another church?
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Where did kalt say any of this?
Im sorry, Catholic, Baptist whatever are denominations…Christ did not set up a denomination…people did this when they decided to go their own way with what they believed.
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Quite true — and the deviations you speak of were deviations from the Roman Catholic Church.
Scripture or God’s Word is the Bible…not any other book.
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Then it must be important to have an accurate understanding of what books belong in the Bible, no?
 
Eleve said:
Where did kalt say any of this?

Quite true — and the deviations you speak of were deviations from the Roman Catholic Church.

Then it must be important to have an accurate understanding of what books belong in the Bible, no?
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The Bible we have today has everything contained in it that God’s wants in it. If God wanted other books to be included He would have had us add them. Obvivously this is not the case.

The deviations are not from the Roman Catholic Church…they are deviations from Jesus’ teachings. Jesus saved 1000’s of people through His Words…these people heard His Words, believed then were baptized and were saved. No church membership is required nor did Jesus ever say it was necessary. The churches came later…If I believe that Christ died for me, and I ask Him to forgive me of my sins and ask Him to come into my life and believe God raised Him from the dead I will be saved…it does not matter what church I go to…
 
Christalone said:
Evidently not or there would have been no break away.
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Why would a split from Roman Catholicism make it evident to you that the answer about the completed original gift of the bible coming from the Church is in doubt.

If you and I lived in the same house and you compiled a book stating the author to be the house we both shared and I moved and took your book would that make me the author because I was in possesion of the book? No.
 
jpaul1953 said:
If you and I lived in the same house and you compiled a book stating the author to be the house we both shared and I moved and took your book would that make me the author because I was in possesion of the book? No.
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The authors of all the books are Jews not churches. How can a house author a book?
 
ServantofChrist said:
When Jesus comes again, you honestly think He is coming back for the Catholic Church? So a person that has given their life to Christ, believed that Jesus died for them on the cross is not going to Heaven because they go to another church? You are saved because of your faith in Christ, not your faith in the church. If you believe this, I would like to see where this is taught in the Bible. Im sorry, Catholic, Baptist whatever are denominations…Christ did not set up a denomination…people did this when they decided to go their own way with what they believed. The Church Jesus is coming back for is not a denomination or a physical building…it is a group of believers who have put their trust and faith in Jesus Christ no matter what church they belong to…
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Dear Servant of Christ,

You misunderstand the word Catholic. I am Roman Catholic and when Jesus comes back he is coming back for His Church, the Body of Christ. Catholic means universal. The Church took the name Catholic to mean The Church because there were heretics in and around 200AD that were claiming things that were not of Christ’s teachings and stating that they were the Church.

Basically, all baptized people in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are baptized Christians. If they are obedient to the teachings of Christ than they love Christ more than they love themselves. It is all of these people that Christ is coming back for.

The denominations are all those who have for one belief or another left the Church ( the Catholic Church) to start or belong to a church with certain different beliefs. They are still Catholics, they just don’t realize what Catholic means. They are still Catholic as I’ve said but not with the fullness of Christ’s teachings. It will be harder for some of them to reach the Kingdom based on their lack of obedience to our Lord’s teachings. That goes for us Catholics too. Remember you are judged based on what you know and what you do with it, not just because you know it.
 
It’s an analogy. Sort of like a parable to help those who don’t understand, to understand.
 
ServantofChrist said:
When Jesus comes again, you honestly think He is coming back for the Catholic Church? So a person that has given their life to Christ, believed that Jesus died for them on the cross is not going to Heaven because they go to another church? You are saved because of your faith in Christ, not your faith in the church. If you believe this, I would like to see where this is taught in the Bible. Im sorry, Catholic, Baptist whatever are denominations…Christ did not set up a denomination…people did this when they decided to go their own way with what they believed. The Church Jesus is coming back for is not a denomination or a physical building…it is a group of believers who have put their trust and faith in Jesus Christ no matter what church they belong to…
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No. And the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that. Where did you get the idea that that is what Catholics believe?

As I said in an earlier post, I agree that God didn’t set up denominations. He founded one church. Denominations are the results of cafeteria-style Christianity - picking and choosing which beliefs of the Church you accept and which you don’t.
 
ServantofChrist said:
The Bible we have today has everything contained in it that God’s wants in it. If God wanted other books to be included He would have had us add them. Obvivously this is not the case.

The deviations are not from the Roman Catholic Church…they are deviations from Jesus’ teachings. Jesus saved 1000’s of people through His Words…these people heard His Words, believed then were baptized and were saved. No church membership is required nor did Jesus ever say it was necessary. The churches came later…If I believe that Christ died for me, and I ask Him to forgive me of my sins and ask Him to come into my life and believe God raised Him from the dead I will be saved…it does not matter what church I go to…
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Without he guarantee that God gives to the Church, you would have no way of knowing what the Bible should be. Even at that, you reject the canon, and instead beleive what one man, Luther, decided, without authority of any kind.

If you believe that Luther had authority from God to change the canon, what do you base that belief on?
 
kalt said:
No. And the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that. Where did you get the idea that that is what Catholics believe?

As I said in an earlier post, I agree that God didn’t set up denominations. He founded one church. Denominations are the results of cafeteria-style Christianity - picking and choosing which beliefs of the Church you accept and which you don’t.
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I am very glad to hear you all say that. I hear that all the time…or maybe I misunderstood what some of the Catholics were saying. But I hear all the time that the Catholic Church is the one and only church ect…its like if you are not catholic Jesus is not coming back for you. Not that you guys stated that…but many come across in this way. 🙂 I am sorry if I misunderstood 😛
 
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